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Conversation 831-020

TapeTape 831StartWednesday, January 3, 1973 at 3:16 PMEndWednesday, January 3, 1973 at 3:31 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Abshire, David M.;  Timmons, William E.;  Atkins, Oliver F. ("Ollie")Recording deviceOval Office
AudioNARA Description

On January 3, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, David M. Abshire, William E. Timmons, and Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:16 pm and 3:31 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 831-020 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 831-20

Date: January 3, 1973
Time: Unknown between 3:16 pm and 3:31 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with David M. Abshire and William E. Timmons. The White House
photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

       Greetings

       Abshire’s departure
            -State Department
            -Hard work
            -The President’s schedule
                  -William P. Rogers
                  -U. Alexis Johnson
                  -John N. Irwin II
            -Appreciation for work
                  -Confidence of State Department staff
                  -Loyalty to White House
            -Georgetown Center [Center for Strategic and International Studies]
                  -Adm. Arleigh B. Burke
                        -Retirement
                  -Ford Foundation
                  -Brookings Institution
                  -Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
                  -Pennsylvania group
                  -The President’s supporters
                                            -48-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Oct.-08)

                                                              Conversation No. 831-20 (cont’d)

                       -Speakers
                       -Writers
                 -Assistance to the President
                 -Rogers
                 -Senators
                       -Briefings
                             -Foreign policy knowledge
                             -Williamsburg retreat
                             -Fundraising
                             -Congressional action on bills

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

      Republican candidates
           -Gerald R. Ford
           -Republican campaign committee chairman
                 -Clarence J. (“Bud”) Brown, Jr.
                 -Robert C. (“Bob”) Wilson
           -1972 election
                 -Connecticut
                       -Dwight D. Eisenhower
                 -New Jersey
           -Wilson
           -Ford
           -Brown
           -Daniel H. Kuykendall
                 -Tennessee
                 -William E. Brock, III

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

      International experience
            -The President's travels abroad
                  -Senate
                  -House of Representatives experience
                        -Herter Committee
                                   -49-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               (rev. Oct.-08)

                                                   Conversation No. 831-20 (cont’d)

                -Alger Hiss case
                -Foreign policy knowledge
     -House of Representatives travel
          -Inadequacy
          -Preparation
          -Distractions
          -Breadth of knowledge
          -Republicans
          -Specialized travel
                -Georgetown Center
                -State Department
                -William Ayala [?]
     -Congressional travel
          -Junkets
          -Large meetings
          -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO] parliamentarians
                -Value
                       -Great Britain
                       -France
                       -Kurt Van Hoffen [?]
     -The President’s experience
          -Labor leaders
          -Industrialists
          -Press
     -Junkets

Conference on national security
     -Georgetown Center
     -Smithsonian Institution
     -Timing
           -Government reports
     -Experts
           -Secretary of State
           -Secretary of Defense
     -W[illiam] Stuart Symington
     -Foundations
           -Liberals’ use
                 -John W. Gardner
                 -Political purposes
                 -Advocacy journalism
                                            -50-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Oct.-08)

                                                            Conversation No. 831-20 (cont’d)

                 -Ford Foundation
                       -McGeorge Bundy
                 -Brookings Institution
                       -Bias
                 -Council on Foreign Relations
                       -Bias
                       -John J. (“Jack”) McCloy
                       -David Rockefeller
            -Charles W. Colson
                 -Talk with Abshire
                 -American Enterprise Institute [AEI]

The conversation was cut off at an unknown time before 3:31 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Thank you.
Thank you.
hard-working, working their tails off.
I know in Spain, particularly, that we did work with some of those foreign-religious kind of people.
What a horrible experience it was.
And it serves so much value.
You never get a chance to see, you know, I see the secretary, I see Alex Johnson, I see Irwin, and I never see anybody
how you were able to not only retain the confidence of the State Department people, which is, at the same time, be loyal to the White House, which is hard.
So I really appreciate it.
I'm sorry to see you leave.
Well, Mr. Secretary, I'm very sorry to leave.
And, you know, had I not this commitment to go back and take over this Senate of Georgetown, I would not be leaving.
That's a good, that's a good, a very important...
I'm Arlie Burke, and I helped get that started back in 62.
And Arlie is retired, so I must do this.
How old is Arlie?
Arlie is 72.
Arlie Burke is 60.
But he is still growing at 31 knots, so he's great.
But he just didn't, if I wasn't coming back, he didn't want to be left with the financial responsibility to send us to Sandbrook.
Let me say what we want to tell you, but let me be quite candid.
It's time that rather than having the Ford Foundation and Brookings and Carnegie take the lead, Georgetown and the group of Pennsylvania, I think we ought to play our people.
You agree?
Yeah, we should.
You find a way.
You find a way.
You find a way, whether it's speakers or others.
And along those lines, I've been talking to Bill about, let's take some of these, I know you've been having new senators in here, but I think that our senator, for example, senators, more junior people that are not on key committees, that are making a knowledge for Williamsburg for a weekend, you know, with their wives, but work them down.
Can you do that?
Yes, we can.
Because part of it.
Well, half of my job is fundraising.
The other half is the education.
But I think we can do a lot more.
That's a marvelous idea.
Because I... You know, basically what you've got to do is to...
There's a little backbone in people, isn't there?
Unless they have understanding, they won't have backbone.
That's backbone enough.
Because you take this last year for six months,
We had one key foreign policy bill or another on the Senate floor with amendments day after day.
And we ran out of senators that were knowledgeable to get out there and defend.
So this is what we've got to build on.
You know, if you could take the young guy and show you this guy.
Jerry says it will, Mr. President.
I'm concerned about it.
They haven't elected the chairman yet.
They will probably this Saturday.
The committee on Wilson may still go.
It may still go.
Jerry is prepared to do battle and fighting on it.
We were in.
Three out of the three candidates didn't deserve to win.
There were lousy candidates.
They're out walking in boats.
Is Bud with Kennedy?
Yes, he's eager and aggressive and he's making his calls.
Is your, our friend from Tennessee, supporting him?
Yes, he is.
But they've been together already planning, the two of them, even though they weren't elected.
Bill was elected today.
That's great.
That's tremendous.
So, no problem.
Yes.
No, no, no, no, I meant the other guy.
Kirkendall?
Yeah.
Yes, he's working for Bud, too.
He thinks it's wrong for Bob Wilson to stay in there.
He would have preferred to have been the candidate.
I held him.
I'll come in here at 9.30, 9.30, 6 or 7.
The difficulty is today, you showing me in our house, because I know you've got four, it's not like you can put it in one hand.
It can't be real.
That is correct.
It's really, it's very exergy.
It isn't.
That is correct.
When they go abroad, unfortunately, so many of them go and, you know, visit the flesh pots and all that.
Many of them don't understand what they see.
First, they don't read them so that people can go.
And then when they go out, they don't know what to look for.
And as a result,
I couldn't agree more.
And Mr. President, I think one thing that my Senate can do
is encouraging specialized travel with a specific purpose.
Now, Bill Maillard said to me that he's quit traveling because most of them are boondoggles, but if we could come up with a specific trail for him to learn something and that he would come back and be able to use it on the floor, it would make the trail.
So I think we can do more planning along these lines.
Our congressional travel in two years is double, but I'm not sure it's gone to that good a purpose.
I see.
In other words, I guess...
It really is a junk.
Well, the end of it is too many large meetings and natal parliamentarians, which are large meetings and nothing is said that is the way it seems.
I'm a natal parliamentarian.
important European parliamentarians that is involved with their tribe.
Not the, not the Kurt Barenbochs, but the ones that don't matter that much.
Oh, they're involved in these groups?
They're involved in these groups.
I know, I know.
When they go abroad, they are, they'll find ways to be in service.
I used to talk to them.
I used to go in and talk to all the labor leaders.
Mr. President, may I bring up another idea?
This gets to the national security issue, which is going to be so key in the next four years.
But I would like to see my center sponsor maybe using the same facilities where they had the IAM conference.
An annual conference on national security.
Now, maybe to have this in March of each year after the various reports are out.
Get foreign experts.
I think you have that kind of a conference.
I would give you here, Bill Burns, Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense.
I'd be one of them.
I'd give you all three.
I think it's some of these people like Simon and the forces that have been in that atmosphere that back up in some of their positions.
political or what they call.
You see, we've got to go to power or something.
And the Council on Foreign Relations is getting forward.
It's been invaded by Jack McCloy and David Robinson.
And 61.
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