Conversation 842-007

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We've got to run a trip to Romaine.

I didn't realize until I read the notes that he's not leaving for his ambassador.

He's going to go out and just report to Mrs. Meyer.

He's coming back again.

We didn't mark her again.

It's just a way to get in and help him.

I'm sorry.

So you informally didn't tell me that.

No, he stayed on as ambassador.

Yeah, that's right.

What'd you see?

That's small.

That's what you never bought in.

That's one of those things .

Here we are in a kind of busy period, and all the rest of us .

Well, I guess I'm not planning on accepting him.

I'll be here for the visit.

I can say that.

I think so.

Yeah, because it was, you know, it had to be today.

It couldn't be yesterday because he was out of town.

He's leaving tonight or tomorrow or something.

This is the last day.

Yeah.

Good.

I was going to ask you about the secret service thing.

I don't want Taylor to come in the field.

You know, we don't appreciate what's going on and so forth.

on it.

How was it handled?

It was handled through Ed Morgan.

He was the guy that runs the Secret Service.

And it was done.

I was lying to him, right?

I was going to be the second man.

Whatever it was, he was going to

Major promotion.

I suppose he wanted to stay and do the presidential detail.

Was that the problem?

I think he probably did.

Basically, he shouldn't take it.

I mean, the guy that had that detail on him.

See, he was moving substantially ahead of the guy that runs the presidential detail.

That was the whole point of the movie.

Taylor's father.

I guess the presidential detail was

I have a letter of instruction for you.

Demanding.

But I don't know what to.

You ought to have a frank talk with him.

I'm not going to tell him that I

But I really feel, I feel that it's not as ideal to have a head in secret service.

He's young and disciplined and that straight arrow business.

He's a little difficult in this job.

Rowley is not.

Rowley is, I guess, watching just plus attack.

Rowley's not.

I'll get you prepared and softened.

You should know that I have that in mind.

And you should take the assignment as well.

How long do we have to keep Rowling?

Rowling goes pretty soon.

I don't think he put Duncan in as the guy after Rowling.

Who the hell would put him in?

I don't know.

I haven't been asked to find out.

Why don't you put somebody else in?

That was a very good one.

on this radio thing.

I do not mind doing a, I don't know what they call it, television spot, you know what I mean, for which, but the great illusion is the question, you know, taxes, the no tax question,

Something like that, you know.

If they want to, you know, have a victory.

Sometimes, sometimes, well, it's Sunday night or Sunday night.

And certainly, there's actually, you've got to probably do it on Monday.

I guess you can't.

That's another problem that's done in doing the speech on television.

The networks can't do it today because they've put all their commitments to this thing and they're shoving everything and their crews down to Johnson City.

And they, I think we forced them to do it, but they've said they can't do it today.

Well,

We could make a spot today to let the Navy crew, but they won't use that.

They won't use that.

We've got to use the network.

I heard you.

Network.

Oh, you mean to use a radio spot?

There'd be no problem doing that.

The radio's no problem.

I'll do that today.

You can do that.

I think I'll run that off.

As soon as I finish it, I'd like to get it done.

I'll spend the afternoon on it.

Getting a few other odds and ends out, Joe.

John is concerned about...

written a note on it for me to see if I had the chance to talk afterwards.

Well, he's not sure, but he's concerned more about the process than about the decision on the basis that he felt he should have talked to you and explained what he was after, what he was trying to do on that thing, and that not having presented his case, that it's wrong for Colson to present his,

I'm not relying on it.

Colson didn't have it.

In Colson's case, it's my own feeling.

I see.

Also, he feels he needs to see behind this question of confirmation strategies, which he needs to get a guidance on.

And he makes the point that the speech probably isn't right, partly because there's never been a chance to get together and talk about it.

you're deeming partly on the merits.

He's got a concern that really this is sort of a surface evidence of that I've seen developing, and he's never articulated it until he wrote this, but I knew it was there.

And I must say that I think there's some merit to it, and I haven't sorted it out in my own mind, and that is that we're pushing very hard on the new majority,

in terms of appointments, appearances, public image and all that.

And the question is... We have the question.

The question is, what does that really accomplish for us?

Where do we come out?

Sure, we've got to keep the ties, but... What does that have to do with this speech?

Oh, I don't know.

That's what I'm saying.

This is just a service.

He's concerned about that.

He's concerned.

He feels, as many other people,

And it gets down to a personal thing, which I know you're aware of.

I don't want to deal with it.

You shouldn't deal with it.

I will look at it.

That he feels Chuck gives you very bad advice on a lot of things.

And it concerns him that Chuck's advice is not properly balanced, you know, in some cases.

And this would be an example of that.

That's going to be .

You can't lie about this, Chuck Ely.

This is my own feeling.

I mean, I raised the point about television.

I know.

And I had told him that long before Chuck asked you at all.

It was my view that you just shouldn't overload the television on a Saturday night.

Well, yeah.

And when I saw the speech, it is a bad speech.

Well, I think that bothered him because he had worked on the speech with both Ash and Shultz.

Got hit pretty hard.

Well, I didn't actually believe them.

I know.

I didn't believe them.

I didn't read the speech until this morning.

And it reached the independent conclusion.

But it's a, as we shake all this down.

Well, the main thing is that we've been very busy with these.

That's right.

The inaugural, and then the, and then the, you know, the... No question.

And he knows that.

And John gives her...

are normally accepted on virtually everything.

Everything Cole says in here, I saw in everything John says.

And he says that, and he's saying he's perfectly willing to carry out the responsibility.

There are times in this, I think you do need to say one on the executive purpose.

Oh, I don't want to say there are times when I've got to have guidance, and when I ask for guidance, then I've got to be able to get it.

Well, here he's not for therapy, but I guess you're supposed to see him, of course.

Don't overreact.

He is asking you to get in any time.

Oh, it isn't a question to say.

John should be in here, frankly, as much as Henry is.

Yep.

And he needs to get in.

On the other hand...

In some ways, more because he's carrying more responsibility.

On the other hand, John should try to bounce everything off, too.

I mean, he should not like the decision on the speech.

I think he reached that without...

without really talking with the others first.

I mean, the guy had a television speech from Sunday night and so forth.

He reached, I think, Asher and Schultz and so forth.

And before you decide to tell everybody you're going to make a television speech, you've got to see what the hell the speech is going to be.

And I do feel that that's disappointing.

It depends on having a good speech.

And also, the other thing is to come along.

The speech must be at the right time.

But as far as Chuck's advice is concerned, I don't follow.

I mean, my God, he doesn't really get it in that way.

I mean, what does he know?

Even how this speaks to Chuck, it's against him.

No, I think he's there.

I think he's just in general contact.

Chuck's main language, of course, is what you should, is there's a core policy, and that we really need to have a tagline.

And the domestic stuff, Chuck doesn't have anything to say about that.

He isn't coming.

Now that the election is over, the domestic stuff, we have to be silent for the patients.

We've got to keep the new majority in mind, though.

All of that, too.

Well, we're not going to go to Harvard.

That's my chance.

That's the thing.

It's not what we're talking about.

by the Harper line, political science line.

We'll have a moment.

Let's see, you want to reopen ?

He's the only one who does.

I think he's beyond that one now.

I think he's talking about- Come back in.

Go, John.

I have to write it.

Back to you, sister.

Actually, John's position, period, as I wrote ironically, his position with regard to the budget is exactly in line

with whatever Chuck's position is on the new majority.

Chuck isn't asking for spending a lot of money.

He's, he's, it's the no tax position that they're asking for.

Is there any argument on that or a story that that didn't come up?

Is it not substantive?

Not to my knowledge.

I don't think there's any substantive question.

What I meant is, is I'm trying to get at where he thinks we've gotten.

I've given bad advice.

He did not say.

That's what I said.

He doesn't say.

It is in John's field.

Chuck should not be in John's field.

But maybe it's on this.

I think it's more on a general.

I think the idea is to bring at least three or four people together to do something.

Choice.

Action.

They work together pretty well, don't they?

Yeah.

Of course, the speech thing is awful hard.

Everybody, right?

Everybody makes a speech, and they're good with it.

Everybody else raises questions, and everybody, I've got a different view, and it's terribly hard, I know, and I share that picture.

One likes one speech, one will like another.

John just got to realize it's a very personal type of speeches.

You just can't shove something out.

You can go on national television, but I think a lot of people can't go.

You just can't say even if you have a good speech, you can get the speech right.

There are factors on going on national television other than the budget goes up at noon on Monday, therefore you've got to go on television Sunday night.

But there's a part to Chuck's argument.

The points, if you've been on national television with major

twice in one week.

And this would be the third time in eight days.

That's how a lot of presidential speeches on national television, uh, lobbed into, like, the people aren't ready.

There's no build-up to the budget thing.

You're better off doing some build-up.

All of it, if you come on, it's, you know, if your own subject is there, also, you know, you can stir it, too.

You know, about, about, about, don't, don't use that too unless you've got, unless the people want to see it.

Right.

And, and you get the, just as we opened, a couple years ago on the, on the England thing, and you, you, in a sense, you went on television three or four times, you know, it was an accident then because it was the juxtaposition.

It was a day show.

Then everybody said, you know, he's rushed out running on television.

Now you can get, I think there's a danger if you go on television Sunday night.

of the response being, amongst the people that looked dishonest on everything, that the President, reacting to the charge of isolation, has now, in his third national television address in a week, has testified in the entire world.

That's why John could even have you do a call by a press conference next week.

You see, if you did that, you're just a little bit in too much.

I think that's right.

You really are.

I'll be ready.

I really will.

Well, anyway.

President Michael, President, I'm going to grab my 1234 radio.

So what's that?

I'll do that.

That's where it's going.

That's his story.

I told him about it.

Did he talk to him?

Well, I said to him, don't say this.

I said to him, don't say this.

But I don't want John to do it.

I know.

I feel that the case is on substance violence.

Of course, there's nothing to do with that.

We don't talk about substance.

I think he's thinking of...

And there I think you've got to listen to Colson.

I think Colson's got a good idea.

So does John.

But John also has got ideas of both.