Conversation 842-008

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That's her.

Yes.

How are you?

Good to see you.

Come over here and sit down.

You can get it.

Well, I think you're going to go home, and then you'll be back.

I'll be back for the visit.

Right.

She decided that it's not the right time to change horses.

Yeah.

It's here.

Well, I'll be back.

I believe that sometimes it's near death.

Right, I'm in Boston.

President Johnson, just before he passed away.

He was led to the rank.

Your Honor, I'm totally aware, but I wanted to tell you personally that I'm very grateful to the way you represent your country, and the way you've also been very understanding of our problems.

I mean, there are ambassadors and ambassadors, and we put you very well on the list.

And it's important to have you here during this period, and you're important to me.

We, of course, still have problems.

I played this four years later.

And it's pretty tough, actually.

And I had no answers.

We cannot, of course, we can't let it explode again.

So the voices of reason must prevail

We can talk along that line and see what she has and what we haven't.

I have nothing new to suggest or even approach.

I don't know what she has to suggest.

As you know, our friends at Sadat and his people are in great turmoil at the moment.

about where we go from here is something we can't discuss when she's here.

In the meantime,

I suppose that's about all we can say at the moment.

But we will certainly appreciate any guidance or advice that we should give.

You know the Americans, and you know your own country, and you know the N.A.s, and you understand the great forces that are involved here in the world.

Mr. President, first, I would like to thank you very, very much for having this meeting.

The words, the kind words that

I've just said about me and my service here.

As a matter of fact, I'm leaving now, almost after five years of serving as an ambassador of my country to the United States.

I didn't only serve as an ambassador, I lived in this country.

And I tried to see what's going on, to understand trends, feelings, differences of opinion.

because you've got a great company, a great society, an open society that allows people to understand, to be accepted.

Allow me, I do it personally, after being here for five years, really to congratulate you about two major achievements that, to my opinion, after being here for five years,

I'm so much impressed by, first, your victory as a political leader in the last elections.

I think I saw what was going on in this country, and I think it's a tremendous, tremendous achievement that any political leader, anyone, no doubt in the United States, can be more than proud of.

Secondly, for what you have achieved in terms

dramatic changes, as I see it, in foreign policy.

To the Americans, it looks much more in the question of Vietnam.

I see it in much more, if I may say, in that I tend to believe that it's a kind of a change, the way that I understand it.

It's a change that has not taken place since the end of the

I see the change in the interrelations between the nation powers that you have brought about.

A beginning, a beginning of new hope for many peoples, not only to the United States.

I came to this country in 1968.

February 68.

I lived through 1968.

I came in the middle of that offensive.

and Johnson, I saw the outcome of the assassination of Martin Luther King, the riots in the city.

I thought, allow me to say, Mr. President, I was afraid, as representative of a small country, that this could not go on.

And with it, the hope for many countries.

I feel the change that has taken place.

in this country, not only domestic, not only in terms of foreign policy, in the last five years, because I came on the verge of this change.

I saw the worst, and I saw it bring forth the world, the world will change.

I would like to thank you.

the name of 900 people, for what you have offered us in the last four over four years.

First, you offered us the possibility to get the arms that are required for our defense.

It's not because I'm a military man.

It's because we have learned

that without the means, we would not be able to defend ourselves.

In our case, the people are already capable to do what you want small countries to do according to your doubting, to shoulder upon themselves the defense of their own country.

And what we lent was the means that you gave to us.

And for us, this is

the basic, the essence of being able to be alive.

Second, Mr. President, your presence, your policies created a deterrence posture vis-a-vis the Soviets in the Middle East that has prevented, to my opinion, great catastrophes to us,

It might be strange, but two Jewish states in our long history were destroyed.

Nineteen centuries ago and over two thousands.

In each time, we were not destroyed by armies.

In each time, we were destroyed by a major power of the time, by rebellion.

And therefore, even though history does not have to repeat itself, it happened to be that the only threat to the existence of Israel once it was offered us the possibility to purchase arms presented to Israel in the last years by the amount of freedom that the Russians might have felt that they had in using their arms, their forces,

directly against us.

I believe our readiness to fight even against the Russians was an important factor.

But no question that you, yourself, and the way that you conducted the United States affairs, as we would, and in the Middle East, have created a kind of deterrent posture that the Russians backed out.

I think the best example took place in September 1970, when the Jordanian crisis developed.

I think it proved then that our readiness and capability on one hand, but your initiative and your posture brought about a kind of change of development that otherwise who knows what would have

happened in the Middle East, not only in Jordan alone, because a change of regime in Jordan could have brought about many repercussions all over the Middle East.

For that, Mr. President, we all are very thankful to you because we know they were your decisions and you had to overcome

to make them, and to make them work.

I'm sure that it's with great satisfaction that I leave here when I can sum up the Israeli-American relations by one word, we have never had it so good.

And this is as I leave.

When it comes to the future, if you have a little bit of time alone,

One is resumption of hostilities.

Second, to move towards a political segment, an overall or partial.

And three, the status quo will be continued.

When it comes to the military option, we have no reason to resume hostilities.

It's in the interest of Israel that we try our best.

It's only they can resume the status.

They can do it for two purposes.

One, to push us for the Suez Canal.

I don't believe that even the Egyptians think that they are capable, especially after the Russians are not anymore there.

Therefore, the only option for which, or the only reason that can

force major powers, Soviet Union as well as the United States, to do something.

This is the only reason for which I can see the near-resolution of hostilities.

I doubt if it's imminent, but in the Middle East it's very difficult to predict what will be the future.

When it comes to political options, I doubt if there is a possibility in the Middle East to move

It seems to me that the transition from war to peace in the Middle East should be a process by steps.

The conflict is too deeply rooted.

The distrust, the mistrust, the lack of confidence requires certain phases that will allow you to create a kind of confidence that without it, I doubt if there is a possibility.

And I talked to Meg a bit with each

Therefore, we still believe, and at present we are trying to sum up our position, that the proposal on which we were agreed at the end of 1971 and the beginning of 1972, that the best way is to move by steps, that the interim agreement

the Egyptians will come to a realistic attitude about in which direction to move, as well as the Russians, only when they realize that the other oceans are blocked, especially the military ocean.

No one, I don't believe that the Russians and the Egyptians would hesitate to use the military ocean if they come to the conclusion that it will serve their

The only way to prevent them from doing so is by blocking, blocking in by strikes in Israel, and by the kind of posture that the United States has presented, and presents to this in the area.

Only when they find that there are no other options, only then they move in the right direction, in the direction on which it has been agreed, of course, in the talks might be required to become

by your actions, the end of 71 and through 72, have created a new era in the Middle East that I can't recall.

I think even from the United States point of view, you have never had it so good in the Middle East.

In terms of moderation, in terms of reluctance to use, to resolve the use of force, in terms of improvement relations between the United States and other countries like Yemen,

Sudan, even radical countries, and making new deals with Algeria.

No question that there was a strengthening of the position of the regimes in the Latin, core Western Arab countries.

Therefore, I think the policy that we have laid out and was carried out

the mere fact that the wall were not hostilities, by itself, moved the area in the right direction.

Therefore, I come to the conclusion that at least we have to achieve the third option, the maintenance of the present situation.

If we can move from it to better, to twirl interim solutions, to step-by-step settlements, toward an overall settlement, it would be the best.

But to achieve it, one has to make sure that there will be no immediate devotion, that there will be enough strength in the area that they will not be left to be tempted towards their mistakes.

I think the problem is complicated.

In fact, many people feel that there is a solution.

And they would say, no, that's it.

We'll settle it.

Neither side is, well, neither side will agree to a solution that the other side will accept.

So it's a question of going step by step.

Of course, you know, the...

the other side that says we're not going to go step by step unless we're sure we're going to go all the way.

But I'm inclined to think you are correct that the hatreds there, the mistrust is so deep that you're not going to have a magical overall settlement agreed to.

It just isn't going to happen.

And therefore we have to find our

small ways, but important ways, to lessen the tension, to move toward some sort of, not reconciliation, it'll never be reconciled, but toward living another life.

And that's not bad, too.

I mean, most of the world lives on another basis.

This idea that

For example, the French love the Germans now, and vice versa.

I mean, the Germans love the Poles.

They hate each other.

The Poles love the Russians.

Never.

Right?

That's the way it's going to be.

And yet they live and let them live.

I think part of the problem with foreign policymakers is that they think in such totally idealistic terms.

We've got to face the hatreds of active life, particularly the fact of international life, the misconceptions of the fact of international life, the personal life.

It doesn't mean for that, by that you start out with the proposition that there are his and my ideals and there can be no progress.

You've got to start out with the proposition to

They are devils.

I'm talking about evidence.

They're evidence to demonstrate the contrary.

That's really what it's all about.

That's really where you stand and where your neighbors stand.

In fact, there's a very good description of...

He said that his whole philosophy was not to start with the proposition that all men are angels, but to start with the proposition

They were the contrary until he had clear evidence that they were not.

Now, that sounds very negative and very pragmatic and all that sort of thing, but those are bad words in this town in which we live, in this international setting in which we move.

The people of the world want to mend that.

And you just got to find a way to have rules so that they don't get to kill each other.

That's the way we look at it.

So in this case, are you well set to work for the major powers in the world if you have a problem?

But that major power is there.

And that major power doesn't care less about you.

It cares a great deal about what your neighbors have and the way your resources.

and therefore would like to bear a shoe for the purpose of gaining grounding points with them.

And so there has to be something that balances that nature of power.

That's us at the moment.

There's nobody else.

The British don't have it anymore.

The French don't have it anymore.

The Germans can't get it.

They would have it if they could.

They won't be allowed to.

The Italians, of course, have never had it.

So who else?

And so you can count on us in that respect.

And we will, however we will, we should try to find what those small steps are.

When I say small steps, I should go and see if we can make some.

Because as long as they're just some hope, that may also be a deterrent factor, in addition just to the uneasy balance, which doesn't

The balance must be maintained.

That's for sure.

Because only on that balance can you build and make any change.

And without the balance, there's no incentive to change.

Without the balance, there's no incentive to change anything.

So there's where we go.

And you just go back and you sit back in those nice hills that are up in the golden heights looking over the valley and come up with some pretty good idea that's working.

The last, the last, the last, the last area would be the Golden Heights.

The Golden Heights is serious, and I hope they move on forever.

They are the greatest.

Are they great?

They are the greatest.

Because till today they maintain the political position that there should be no political settlement, that the war should go on till the destruction of this city.

This is their policy.

Sure.

At least you know they are fighting.

Sometimes it's much easier to deal with.

After all, it's legitimate to have conflicting interests.

The problem is how to mitigate conflicting interests in a way to produce a situation that, as you described, is too little too lovely.

It's not a question of fighting against idealism or...

Right.

Have a good trip.

Don't get hijacked.

Be sure it's one of your own planes.

You'll shoot him up.

That's right.

Well, thank you very much.

You may kill your passengers with your .

So it is now getting more and more positive.

Well, the main thing is by hitting it first and getting 90 million people at least got our side across.

And most of the jackasses that hit it, you know,

Mr. President, the average person doesn't understand all these fine points.

They know you brought these on exactly the terms you said.

I think we're getting floods of messages now.

Heath sent you a very warm one.

Homie Duke has sent you an ecstatic one.

And I think we ought to...

I do think we ought to have the conference in Paris, Mr. President.

We'll be better off with the French in Paris than if we drag the French to Copenhagen, which is the only other possible place.

All right.

We'll put it in Paris.

Where there are no communications.

When should we announce him?

Tomorrow?

Tomorrow.

Does he know?

Yes.

Who's John?

I've told him.

You told him you'd leave in Sunday night.

Well, I've told him that he's going.

I'm seeing him this afternoon.

I think he ought to be out there when they announce my trip to Hanoi so that he can calm them down a bit.

And he ought to be back by the time I go out.

Give me another year to Hanoi when we announce that he's there.

Yes.

You'd better tell him before he goes.

Oh, yeah.

About the trip, you know.

That's part of the deal.

He's unbelievable.

I must say, the more...

The more I deal with... You should have seen the cat meeting yesterday.

There's a guy he... Well, by the way, he takes up the carnivals for the Congress.

But he has no...

He has no sense of obligation to you.

What is it?

He just is thinking of... First of all, he's very petty.

But above all, he keeps thinking of his PR and his own future, which is the worst way to have a future.

The only way, I told him this long ago, and I've told it to others, the only way a vice president can ever... First of all, the only job of a vice president is to support the president.

That's his primary responsibility.

Second, the best way to...

The second is that only by completely sublimating himself will he make himself a figure of some kind.

And by constantly reaching.

Well, you take this trip.

What he ought to ask, what can I do for the president?

And he didn't take any heed.

Every half hour he called to see if someone had an idea how he could feature himself.

On his trip?

Yeah.

Like what?

Well, can there be a press?

Can there be this?

Can he make a public speech here?

I told him no.

I told him he's there on a diplomatic mission.

But we can't have him popping off all over Southeast Asia before I go to China.

No, no.

And Hanoi.

But you were so right not to let him go to trick you around, because your quietness had got you.

If he had gone there, we would have had a big confrontation.

And you've been up on Drew's side, too.

Oh, I mean that.

Yeah.

And, uh, well...

I'll tell you, uh, he'll want to see me in this and that, but I... Oh, uh...

I got to work on domestic speech anyway, so if you're talking about .

I think the less I had .

I think you have to, but who can .

I'll send a microphone to you from my staff.

How about a camera?

It's important to put some of it in to keep him from popping off his damn head.

Well, he should not have a press conference out there.

He should have no... What the hell good are press conferences?

He shouldn't have a press conference.

I put it right to him.

Those reporters out there eat like a bunch of orangutans.

He'll say something wrong.

He can give a lot of reassurances.

He can talk to you about...

He should make public statements.

He can make statements publicly.

He's there.

But they must be decided from here.

That's right.

He knows that you're a fool as much as possible.

I travel abroad.

I don't know why.

I agree with what you're saying so much.

He's not over that difficult.

He doesn't know how to do it.

What other country are you going to send him to?

We're sending him to Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia.

Good.

He's going to have a hell of a good trip.

Immediately, of course, we're going to camp him, just to show you how his mind works.

To where?

To Australia, to establish relations with the new government.

He said he wasn't particularly well qualified to do that, so I squashed that.

How did you tell him?

I said, we don't want new relations with that government.

I said, send it back.

Did he get the point?

Yeah, but it shows so little understanding.

It shows he had to read the papers.

That's right.

Or something.

And he's not going to establish new relations with the Pietro, too.

I'm sure he could be convinced of that, too.

Listen, Henry, let me tell you about Cantor and, uh, Hoffman.

Uh, what?

I'm sweating.

Davey, I was...

I'm sweating a while, don't you think so?

No question.

We don't have to send out... We don't have to send out a vice president.

I trust you have any advice.

No advice on this trip to the bloody side.

But they didn't hear the night.

And it's good to...

How did they react in Austria?

We want him to win.

And he was pretty responsible.

I remember how the Gaul felt about this issue.

The same is true of our Italian fans.

He also said there are four states in Indochina, which I know I didn't like.

And he wrote in this letter, which is what I had done in this letter.

I sent in our fellow to his diplomatic advisor, and I said, look, what will we do to know we're not making the public think that this crack in us in this press conference really hurt our relations?

He told me.

On the other hand, they're mean.

I said, this is my interpretation of the President's view.

I said, but I won't do it on this.

Really, we have decided not to put the conference into Paris.

So the President thought about the situation, and if we could be assured that the conference would take place in a friendly atmosphere, that the French participation would be constructive.

for the sake of the long friendship he's had for France, and particularly for Pompidou, he might reconsider it.

So they sent you an image, he said, now that the war is over.

A whole new era could begin in our relation, and this will be reflected in French behavior at the conference.

Now that's really very helpful to us.

And I think we should send back a message to Frank.

Well, what are your plans now for the Congress?

You're not meeting with us.

It's going to be too much of an infringement of presidential prerogative if you go on the floor.

I never thought of that.

That's what I was thinking.

I was actually thinking of several small meetings, but it's in here.

But that way we can avoid the small meetings, but it's in a corporate room.

Senate caucus room and House caucus room, right?

I suppose it's the caucus room.

I know it's not on the floor.

I suppose it's the caucus room.

It's a room bigger than the whole thing.

So it has to be the caucus room.

It's from 1.30 to 2.30 for the Senate and from 3 to 4 for the House.

And a half hour in between.

And... That's it.

And...

The way I'll do it is I'll make a brief note instead, five to ten minutes, just making, which is basically just making, I'm particularly a homeowner, just making four or five of the positive tough points.

This is at the beginning.

This is a, we've accomplished our goals, and pointing out the difference between things.

If you want to particularly remember that you're there to

not to reassure the Doves, but to make the Hawks feel that they supported the right cause and that we accomplished something by sticking in there.

We've got peace.

The Doves would have had, I don't know, any peace for us or for the council.

We've got the right.

We've got the right of the Soviet Union.

We have voided our positions, the imposition of a communist government, either by coalition

or other ones, and the right of the people to determine.

And that right will never be compromised.

And finally, we have the unconditional release of our prisoners.

We have saved the honor of the United States.

I think using honor, using words like that, is very good with those guys.

Those guys are not all that.

The press is sophisticated.

You can't use those words.

These guys in the House, remember when I used the words stain the honor of the United States?

He lives on our street.

I mean, their father-in-law does, like Mary McCrory, had a columnist, and he said, let's not worry so much whether it was peace without a head.

He let me have the credit for bringing peace.

So they had to respond to your phrase.

They don't like it.

They don't like it, but at least they're not attacking it.

And now, Mary McCrory is the last thing she'd want to write.

I think irony that can't be left.

after Saturday, though, I think you've got to be unleashed better.

And I think we've got to be tough as hell.

But then all the tripping in my box yesterday has meaning that I stopped the bombing work.

You've got to be that clear with the Congress.

But I am all addressed to doing that now, if I put it in.

I say, during the second day after the negotiations resumed, their luck broke.

Bertie Wurtzman called my office this morning, couldn't get me, and talked to Kennedy.

He made that point.

He said, well, see, I didn't interpret it in that way, as it is.

And actually, these guys have a lot of respect now that they've seen the agreement.

I haven't seen one news story that says it wasn't worth it.

The only thing they're trying to do now is to say, like the Star, saying, like, both sides made major concessions.

What the hell concessions did we make?

Really, what the hell did we concede?

It's a cave in our Vietnam.

It's a total cave.

And, anyway...

I hope our people, some of our people, rank that way, if I'm like that.

Well, Joe Alta called yesterday.

He said he wants me to tell you it's the greatest diplomatic feat of modern American history.

And he has now read the agreement.

And if somebody who has gone out there and left for it, this is a greater achievement than he thought possible.

And, you know, Joe said it.

bizarre in his manners, but he's probably the best mind in the press for him.

No question about it.

He's certainly the best, the toughest mind.

And the most perceptive mind.

What he wants to do, I told him to get in touch with me, but he asked me if you approved whether I could give him some of the history.

He would then do a series of columns.

Yes.

I don't know whether that's the man you want to do it with.

Oh, why not?

He's more read than any of the others.

I will do it.

As long as you see our friends, see them all, those are the ones now to win.

And I'm very sure our enemies are never going to, they will only use their interviews with you to build themselves and to tear down.

You should see Joe Alston, you should see William S. White, Dick Wilson's, you know the ones.

If Robert Elking were here, I'd see him.

I would not see people like him.

Mary McRory, naturally, or not Scotty Rustin ever, not Tom Wicker, not anybody from the Washington Post.

Basically, they're, or the Washington Star for that matter.

What I meant is that you've got, but you can, it's the time that, if you see these people, then

and then not.

That will be our story.

We've seen people that are going to write things like that.

We've suffered enough.

Your judgment on this was right, and mine was wrong.

I thought I could be thanked, and to some extent I could, as long as things were going well.

But as soon as things start turning a little, then the lips are turning on us, and we're the only ones who are stuck with us.

And Horace did.

He's another one we should see.

I'll say one other thing, too, that you have to have in mind.

While it was a painful process, it may have been rather a good thing, and there's some benefit in having to have gone through the egg in December, because it exposed our liberal friends for what they were, exposed them once and for all.

And now that they're there, I'm just going to saw a balloon.

I'm not going to do it again.

With me, no bitterness.

I have a strong bitterness.

But by going, we're just not going to give them any quarter.

The hogs would have been too uncertain.

The doves would have started pecking away.

They were already starting.

But by what we had to go through, by your strong action in December, first of all, you rallied the hogs.

I mean, you had Goldwater on television this morning saying it's the greatest victory for America.

But still, you had Goldwater, you had Tower in strong support.

You've impressed the Russians and Chinese, which is going to give you a lot of capital in which to draw throughout the term.

It will help make it easier to police the agreement.

And as you said, it has exposed .

Understand, I don't want you to get the impression that I have any.

Because that's what Johnson really died of a broken heart.

Even when he was out there in Texas, he had the three television sets in his room, always on.

And if he ever heard anything about himself, it was always negative and brutal.

And you see, we must never, I never feel that way.

My feeling is one of every absolutely cold detachment.

When I'm bigger than a cigar, somebody's in here, I'm in the apartment, my eyes wide open, no hatred.

Well, there's a man there.

Knock him down.

Right.

Well, I think the historical judgment of your administration will be the one that will be...

He was very good.

I think that will be what history, the tragedy of Johnson was.

He wanted to be the greatest president, but he left nothing.

And he stopped being president.

He disappeared.

Really, from you, I mean, who... That was really tough on him.

I am convinced that when new presidents dissolve, that...

then the bitterness of these debates is going to be forgotten, and your achievements are going to grow more and more.

You know, Rabin, it was well for him to remind us of the time in 1968, Martin Luther King, he thought this society was coming apart, the American society.

Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, Washington, Bernie.

Washington, Detroit, Bernie.

What?

Bernie that got the whole thing.

What?

A president without authority, a country without pride, no foreign policy.

None.

And to tell you that it didn't work.

You know, our enemies now don't give us credit, as you said, for China.

They don't give us credit for Russia, which are much bigger than Vietnam.

Vietnam is necessary.

But Vietnam is like a dam.

The fact is, Mr. President, it sounds arrogant, but we have not made a mistake in foreign policy.

And that's a high batting average.

That's almost impossible.

And we have had to do this.

Kennedy never did anything right, because even the Cuban middle crisis shouldn't have happened.

We can be sure that he didn't agree to those last five chapters.

That was the result of his own incompetence.

And then, at the end of his time, he had the credibility

You have brought about a revolution.

Have you seen what the British press is saying about you today?

I haven't read them, sir.

The British press is just this item, sir.

Really?

What is the British press?

What paper?

The Nike Express?

Nike Express, Telegraph, Times.

What are they saying?

Well, they're comparing you.

Of course, they've always been good, haven't they?

Well, they wobbled a bit in October.

No, they haven't.

Go ahead.

Well, they're comparing you with Kennedy.

They're saying, what is this?

They say that Mr. Dixon is an ordinary man.

Yes, that is his strength, because he has the qualities of the ordinary American.

What has he built?

Look at his achievements.

And I trust the British, because they are honest.

I mean, they are not as corrupt in the money as their executives are not as corrupt themselves.

They may be less, but they are honest.

No, before you get that, bring over that Israeli book with my glasses.

I want to read something for Dr. Dixon.

Well, the British have always, I mean, sure, are a lot of a model, but even you, Dick, are a great friend.

He and the two best ambassadors in the history of this country.

You don't believe me?

Oh, you believe me?

Of course, but I don't know what I'm doing.

I've never been a detective, but I'm friends with an American.

Oh, friends, but even, I mean, friends have no reason to be your friends.

He's a great liberal.

This is written a hundred years, this is written about a period exactly a hundred years ago.

But whatever one used to call it in the 19th century, it would have consisted of at least two distinct but overlapping circles.

There was the traditional aristocracy with their country cousins, the squiremen.

They were rich, grand, tolerant, often eccentric, and not frequently dissipated.

They belonged to monotheistic clubs that usually kept resources, sometimes kept mistresses.

The Reeds and Bucks, the Dandies of the 1830s, the heavy swells who busted around the Prince of Wales, caused a millennial succession of a certain type upon them.

They were not all of them mere frivolous.

There were conscientious men devoted to public duty among them, just as there had been in the 18th century, to which tradition so many of them belonged.

Now speaking of discrediting.

Discredited rise was essentially a social rise, a conquest upon the society upon which he made an impression for good or ill, so forgotten.

The era of slurs has always been tougher than individual oddities.

It has been prepared to put up with entertainers, buffoons, jesters, and freaks as long as they give good value.

Actors, writers, artists, and wits have never found it difficult to do what Israeli uncounting scribe, to do what Israeli uncounting scribe, the editor of the Times, is doing.

simpered in the enervating atmosphere of Gilda's saloons.

Disraeli certainly did not simper, but he was instinctively at home in the great houses.

As he saw it earlier, he had convinced himself of his own intrinsically patrician status, queer for this nation.

He prided himself on being a man of the world who started out of her veins.

It was the enthusiasm of Gladstone and his otherworldly indifference to the London royal group which annoyed the Strait of the Ottoman times almost as much as his politics.

The moral and intellectual problems which affected a greater portion of the Victorian governing class were of no interest to the Strait.

He was a very clever man.

But like Derby, he was not an intellectual.

He could feel for the wretchedness of the court.

but he could not feel for the moral anxieties of the prosperous intelligentsia.

Quote, my lord, I am on the side of the angels, end quote.

Thus, to an audience of dons and undergraduates at the Sheldonian Theater in 1863, did he dismiss the whole controversy about Darwin's origin of species.

The intellectuals detested him almost to a man.

Who but this record could have brought freedom and frown to denounce him from the same political class?

That's pretty bad, isn't it?

He's just playing.

Yeah.

You know, Moynihan, I don't know if I told you, came in in tears.

No, he didn't talk.

I knew he came in tears.

No, but he said, I was wrong.

The president was right.

Remember, I was 69.

He said, get rid of the incubus.

Yeah.

You are out there too.

Your work is but all, and he'll stand up if you just need directions.

And he deserves it.

For anybody who can come from Harvard and work for this administration, it's a term they just give up.

So, Mom, you know, I don't know what's going to happen in Harvard.

Those bastards, you know, they tried to get my daughter to sign a petition against Obama.

13-year-old child.

Thank God she did.

No, but supposing they had succeeded.

A, the hurt they do to me, the damage they do to her, and the viciousness that we did the same thing.

You won't hear a word from any of them saying it was a good thing.

I mean, that we succeeded.

No, no.

They're going to say, well, the agreement may not last.

That's the whole thing you're talking about now, right?

It wasn't the guys who said we should back out.

They are beginning to say, no, no, that couldn't have been done earlier.

Well, the Buckeyes were the most immoral people, and I wish you'd used that term to remind that for the United States just to get out for its prisoners would be one of the most immoral things they could have done.

And that's true.

Because I don't think they could have done even that.

I know that, but you see, there's one thing you do there.

You said we know we can.

I know we can.

That man gets them off the hook on the fact that they were on the war.

I see.

So I wouldn't quite say that.

I would say that all that did was to give the...

I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don't mean, I don

with what words they're speaking about you on television.

Are they?

Well, I would think they would.

Well, but not just for what you did now, that you take for granted.

But they say you've always been fair, you've always been honest, and you've always shown compassion.

That's the interesting thing.

I mean, the fact that they would approve this, that goes without saying.

Another thing about this sermon, it means a lot more

Because it cost so much that it would have meant if we'd gotten it in October.

Not that it would have been wonderful in October.

Because you want it over as soon as possible.

But sometimes you must go through terrible agony in order to get people to understand.

President, it ended the way you had to.

The way you had conducted the war.

Lonely.

With a solitary decision.

With everybody against you.

Charlie and Corvus, which was rigidly maintained.

And you wrote an ending which was symbolic of Cambodia, of love, of maids, so that every, so that the climax really completed the design.

That's right.

Basically, you said, somebody else said, we bombed them back to the table and they settled.

That's right.

He called in this morning and said,

Let's face it, no one ever believed.

He said they betrayed the Doves again.

He said... Who is it?

Quiltzman said they betrayed the Doves once again.

He's pretty smart.

Quiltzman is okay.

Quiltzman is...

He said they betrayed the Doves again.

Betrayed the Doves again.

Has he ever been out there?

No.

Where we go, of course, is...

I'm glad you're doing the Congress stuff, but maybe, maybe remove some of their demands about executive purpose and the rest of the law.

I don't know.

But we're never going to concede to do without a testifying form.

Screw that.

Why build up that dam?

If that comes up, hold that dam up in your meetings.

You can just say executive purpose.

Now, I'm always available to answer questions the President will have, but it would be a gross distortion.

There are times when the President has to have advice

Okay.

And I think that with a large group like this, they're not interested.

They may be.

Percy's a lot greater.

They sent in an ecstatic message.

Yeah.

Wow.

And of course, he's now looking to try to work his way back.

And really, Messiah is not the frontrunner.

He left a message.

They are, absolutely.

Besides, it's just one notch above Goodell.

That's right.

He's a better looking man than Goodell, that's all I can say for you.

And a little more cautious, a little not quite mean.

But Goodell is a prostitute.

I don't know if it takes people, but he was a cold-blooded man.

It's actually beautiful, yeah.

I haven't heard from him, but he made strong statements that you support him.

I think he's a little dumb.

No, he's not dumb.

He's just a typical Ohio politician.

And, you know, playing whatever he makes people for.

You've got to realize a hell of a lot of people are against the bombing, you know.

And even some of them are in the Chicago Tribune, Washington.

But the point is, they didn't understand

back to the table.

That's the point.

Mr. President, it would still, we have to compare the intent to agony.

We have to suffer for these four weeks compared to the protracted intent to agony.

I'd be going back to the original three weeks.

We'd have constant speculation, begin to look ridiculous.

The war would go on.

We would be not anywhere near the end of the negotiations.

be completely swamped, we've got ghost breast cancer and so much, nobody covers it.

I don't feel that the Norsemen want to keep this feeling.

That's the truth.

And he said it publicly.

He said this group feels it too.

If we plan it, I know it might go to my dread well.

Get a slow economic development process started.

Get the Chinese involved in the act.

It would be rather good to have a new cabinet start off with the voting.

It's impressive.

It's good to have that.

Oh, and have those bipartisan leaders.

Well, I don't know.

But then it's better for the Republicans.

Did you see the comments they all made about you?

What's the most moving thing they heard?

There wasn't, well, in the U.S. statements, there wasn't a dry eye.

One of them says, well, you know, Scott said it.

It's widely recorded.

What did he say?

He said, the most moving statement you've made.

Also, Andy, I, and Stanice said, thank God the president cut it through.

They all made very strong statements.

No one made a negative statement.

No, we've restored the drive.

Imagine if you had to go into a meeting like this and say, gentlemen, I've had it.

I've decided to pull out.

Suppose we'd have to go on auction, too.

With full drive ads.

Oh, wow.

That's actually a surprise.

This is why you lose very often.

Exactly.

You know, one thing, Henry, we wouldn't have planned it this way, but it was really good for him in a way.

And for us, the Johnson died just when he did.

It was odd for me to say something graceful about him.

And it wasn't for us to do it yesterday, did you hear?

He made a very, he did it with grace.

I mean, you know, he was a mother, graceful, he was graceful.

And, you know, we gave Johnson more credit than he deserved.

But on the other hand, quite as did him, to have him said by his successor that he was a man of peace and no man could welcome him.

Of course it's true.

Every man in this office is a man of peace.

That's why these damn liberals made me so mad.

In fact, if he had followed his natural instincts, he would have won.

If you had been president, you would have ended this war within two years.

It may not have started, because I wouldn't have killed him.

That's one person you wouldn't have killed.

But it wouldn't have started.

Well, nevertheless, we should have invented it.

But what you invented is to apply 30% more power than it needed.

His was 30% more.

His was always just a little.

And so was Kennedy's.

But Kennedy was... Kennedy talked so big, that's the point, and did so little.

Kennedy was a completely indecisive man.

Do you think you said something like that?

Of course, when you take these massive cortisone shots that he had to take for that, it's a disease that also helps you in judgment.

You think of death?

Of course.

Acceleration.

And then he had this tracheism as a doctor.

He's a damn child.

He's a quack.

And speed, that's the thing that wrecks you up.

If I were to say something like that, I'd talk a hundred words about it.

Yeah, but then it produces profound depressions afterwards.

Depressions, yeah.

So it showed me that it's the only pill I can take as a sleeping pill, and that is a pellet punch.

You see, the mind works all the time.

Some people, I was talking to her about it last night, some people take a warm bath, a bath wakes me up.

They take a walk, wakes me up.

listen to music wakes me up.

Reading wakes me up.

I've never gone to sleep reading.

I've never gone to sleep listening to music, reading, that sort of thing.

Because I concentrate on whatever I'm doing.

Aren't you the same?

I am the same, too.

I don't sleep well.

I never do.

I sleep well, I'm sure.

I can only sleep four to five times a night.

Yeah.

You can get along with it right now at your age, but... Yeah.

When you'll notice it's about 50 depends on the man.

53 or 54, that's when I'd be 50.

Three, yeah, 55.

Then you just need to sleep.

Well, anyway, I'll work on domestic things, you know?

This is going to go down as the, well, let's go to play back off.

You know how we did it.

You know how we all broke our ass.

But I know you have to make the lonely decisions.

They talk about the lonely decisions in this office.

They haven't.

They don't know the lonely decisions.

They don't know what lonely decisions.

You don't know how particular, Henry, the point that you've made so often?

No one called.

No one said anything.

I know that.

I didn't.

You don't even hear from the chairman of the Johnny Cheese.

You don't hear from them.

I know they have amazing experience on that.

Roger doesn't know.

Larry doesn't know.

I want to stop.

That's over.

They said that was a bribe or something.

Well, don't mind me joking.

You've got my consent.

That was no big deal.

No, but it's all very true.

But then it's tough there at the box office.

They don't follow.

They don't do anything.

Well, I'll go with Mike's will.

That's all back.

Good night.

Good luck.

Good night.