Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 854 › Conversation 854-026

Nixon, Scowcroft & Bull on Vietnam War and Henry Kissinger

Tuesday, February 13, 1973 · 12:38 PM–12:43 PM ET · Oval Office · 6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Scowcroft, Brent G. (Gen.); Bull, Stephen B.Conversation854-026 on Tape 854StartTuesday, February 13, 1973 at 12:38 PMEndTuesday, February 13, 1973 at 12:43 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 854-026 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with General Brent Scowcroft and Stephen B. Bull to review the status of Henry Kissinger’s ongoing negotiations with North Vietnam and discuss the political implications of a proposed anti-hijacking agreement with Cuba. The President expressed concerns regarding how the timing of the Cuban agreement might affect U.S. relations with the People's Republic of China, leading him to request a meeting with Secretary of State William P. Rogers to coordinate the public rollout. Additionally, Nixon addressed the sensitive issue of returning prisoners of war, directing that no information regarding potential collaborators be released to avoid jeopardizing the positive public narrative surrounding their return.

Audio

Download MP3 · 7.6 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
I wanted to ask you about, uh, do you have any further report from Hacker today on, uh, his meetings?
No, sir.
Only, only that he had a two-hour meeting, but no, uh, nothing else.
But he's, uh, was he delayed?
Uh, he did, he, uh, was going to leave at 9 o'clock in the morning.
He left at 12.30, and that gave him time.
for this two-hour meeting, but we've had no report on what the substance was.
We don't have anything about his economic progress.
Only what I read you last night, that they seem to be at least understanding in the sense that they didn't insist on specifying amounts.
But I think he probably delayed and asked for that extra meeting as a result of your note, which
I think you need to get that across.
Oh, I think so.
And I think that's it.
We cannot be in a position.
Let me ask you this.
I think it's useful.
I see him.
And I don't have the time for anything else.
Is there a real problem with that?
I don't send it off to Henry, because he's so busy over there telling him.
What is it, a treaty with Cuba?
It's just a hijacking agreement, and I don't know that there's any problem in it at all.
I guess my real question is whether or not he thought there would be any impact while he's in China if something were announced on the streets, and I don't know that there would be.
But that was the only point of which I...
Well, I did.
We ought to get Bill Rogers over here.
He's got to make a big deal out of it because of what this press conference is.
I just want to make it clear.
Where is it?
So, just wait a second.
I'm going to discuss it.
Yeah.
You can have Secretary Rogers over here.
435 somewhere.
Is Romaine coming by?
Yes, sir.
He's coming by.
He's like the rest of the way over to you?
Yeah.
First floor, on 9.
He'll be over in just a few minutes.
Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.
When you mention helms, helms, tomorrow, that's not only helms, it's a routine.
You'll do that during the 11th, 12th, 13th period.
You might want to hear someone, you might want to have staff during the 15th period if you'd like.
It's just like more pressing things.
Yeah, there are some more though, aren't there?
Well, as I say, that was my only concern about the hijacking, and I can't imagine that there would be any connection.
Well, I had a good talk about it.
I don't care if it does re-irrigate the Chinese.
We've got to take a strong view on that.
Well, that's something I'll consider.
i suppose i suppose the problem would be at the car i think that that would be that would be a real problem i think uh i i just want to quietly go away well i i i think that's the best really i think
Well, it really is.
But I think unless something comes out on some of the prisoners that is really, really bad, I think at this point all we can do is tarnish what now is a good story by raking over the church.
Well, I have told...
So far all I've told them is that we want absolutely no information out on this at all.
All right.

NARA Description

On February 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:38 pm to 12:43 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 854-026 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 854-26

Date: February 13, 1973
Time: 12:38 pm - 12:43 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft.

       Vietnam settlement
             -Henry A. Kissinger
                     -Report
                     -Meetings with North Vietnam
                     -Departure
                     -Hong Kong
                     -Substance of meeting
                     -Report on economic talk
                            -Aid amount
                     -President’s note

       US-Cuba relations
            -William P. Rogers
                     -Meeting with President
            -Hijacking agreement
                     -Kissinger
                     -Treaty
                     -Cuba
                     -People’s Republic of China
            -Press conference
                     -Rogers

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 12:38 pm.
                                                -42-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                             Conversation No. 854-26 (cont’d)

       President's schedule
              -Meeting with Rogers
              -Meeting with Donald H. Rumsfeld
                      -Photographs
              -Meeting with Richard M. Helms

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:43 pm.

       Hijacking agreement
              -Effect on PRC
              -Cuba

       Prisoners of war [POWs]
              -Collaborators
                     -Court martial
                             -Col. Robinson Risner
                             -Pardons
                             -Gen. John D. Lavelle
                     -Prosecution
                             -Elliot L. Richardson
                     -Information
                             -Release
                                     -President’s approval
                     -William P. Rogers

       President’s schedule
              -Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo
              -Bull

Scowcroft left at 12:43 pm.
                                               -43-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Also recorded on February 13, 1973

  • 854-024 12:29 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:29 pm to 12:35 pm.
  • 854-025 12:35 PM · 31 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:35 pm and 12:38 pm.
  • 854-027 12:43 PM · 22 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Marjorie P. Acker met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:43 pm and 12:45 pm.
  • 854-028 12:45 PM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:45 pm to 12:46 pm.
  • 854-029 12:46 PM · 26 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 12:55 pm.
  • 854-030 12:46 PM · 28 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 12:55 pm.
  • 854-031 12:46 PM · 25 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 12:55 pm.
  • 854-032 12:46 PM · 38 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:46 pm and 12:55 pm.

All 55 conversations from February 13, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 854-026, February 13, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/854-026 (accessed October 1, 2026).