Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 867 › Conversation 867-025

Nixon, Ill & Bull on Navy Department and Personnel management

Friday, March 2, 1973 · 4:08 PM–5:05 PM ET · Oval Office ·5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ill, Charles L.;  Bull, Stephen B.Conversation867-025 onTape 867StartFriday, March 2, 1973 at 4:08 PMEndFriday, March 2, 1973 at 5:05 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 867-025 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with Charles L. Ill and Stephen B. Bull to discuss Ill’s past service during the 1968 campaign and his recent tenure working with the Navy. Ill expressed frustration regarding his forced resignation and the lack of clarity surrounding his dismissal despite his prior dedication to the administration. The conversation served as a professional exit for Ill, with the President acknowledging his frank feedback regarding personnel changes and administration staffing challenges.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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We thought we ought to get a little picture here before you take off.
You stand on my right.
All right.
You stand on my left.
Yes, ma'am.
I'll accomplish the action.
Yes, ma'am.
Be real nice.
Yes, ma'am.
No worries.
This is my father.
This is the election.
This is the election.
This is the election.
This is the election.
This is the election.
This is the election.
If I could be very frank, I would like that
Maybe something I think you ought to know, I'm not sure that it does filter up in the front.
That is that some of the treatment, some of your staff, the residents were pleased that your election has been bordering on a trophy.
And my own case is explained.
uh... uh...
I was the guy who had to say no to live my summer.
And, uh, my wife sat in my office and said, we've got to have money or I'm going to get fired.
It was politically pretty poor for us to avail, but now that's gone.
Sure.
We've been reading the papers today.
I'm sure that you've seen it.
Mr. Thomas and Mr. Warner have indicated my decision then, and I've accepted it.
Okay, well, they're going to have to make an argument.
That's correct.
They haven't given the money.
And I just, nobody ever explained why my resignation was accepted.
But I think that you should know.
Sure.
These are going to be more difficult for you.
I got to get behind this one example.
And one of them said, hey, look, Charlie, we want something for the team.
I said, thank you very much.
Great.
Please go ahead.
But when they both invited me, I was a little bit disappointed.
And I can tell you that I'm more difficult in getting a new team that's going to do as good a job for you as your last team.
Well, I appreciate your frankness.
I was not going to, I'm not going to be aware of the background.
Well, Christian, I had no reason why you shouldn't.
I don't think Ash Brooks was even aware of it until he got here.
He was one of the poor people, I was told, who got the people in the orchestra to dance.
All I know is that Secretary Washington asked me to stand.
Secretary Warner asked me to stand.
When I got over here, it got turned down.
I never know why.
Right.
I know, Mr. President, it's been an honor.
I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
You called it as you should.
Right.
It's what men do all the time.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
That was exactly what they do.
I appreciate it.
I have every compliment.
Thank you, Mr. President.

NARA Description

On March 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles L. Ill, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 867-025 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 867-25

Date: March 2, 1973
Time: Unknown between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Mr. and Mrs. Charles L. Ill; Stephen B. Bull and the White House
photographer were present at the beginning of the meeting.

       Introduction

       Photographs

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Privacy]
[Duration: 6s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

*****************************************************************

       Ill's work for the President
              -1968 campaign, transition government
                                             -40-

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. June-2010)
                                                            Conversation No. 867-25 (cont’d)

       President's appointees
             -Corruption
                    -Presidential election committees [?]
             -Secretary of the Navy
             -Defense Secretary

       Ill's work with navy
              -Responsibilities
                    -Civilian contracts
              -William P. Clements, Jr., John W. Warner
              -Resignation
                    -Explanation

       New appointees
            -Roy L. Ash, Elliot L. Richardson, Warner
                 -Ill’s resignation

Mr. and Mrs. Ill left.

Also recorded on March 2, 1973

  • 867-020 4:08 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 4:08 pm.
  • 867-021 4:08 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Edwin S. Cohen, and Mrs. Cohen met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm.
  • 867-022 4:08 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Harold Finger, and Mrs. Harold Finger met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm.
  • 867-023 4:08 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Robert C. Moot, and Mrs. Robert C. Moot met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm.
  • 867-024 4:08 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Richard F. Schubert, and Mrs. Richard F. Schubert met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm.
  • 867-026 4:08 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Samuel Jackson, and Mrs. Samuel Jackson met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm.
  • 867-027 4:08 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and Spencer Schedler met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm.
  • 867-028 4:08 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Richard Melich, and Mrs. Richard Melich met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm.

All 58 conversations from March 2, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 867-025, March 2, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/867-025 (accessed September 18, 2026).