Nixon, Scowcroft & Irwin on U.S.-France relations and Georges Pompidou

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Keep going.

The most important thing is to, to the extent you have opportunity to talk about the problem,

I wanted somebody who really knew foreign policy, in other words, who had great experience in this area.

I couldn't send just, in other words, I didn't want to think that basically that you were there, not just like a political appointment, but you were there because, basically,

And you should go on to say how you believe.

What I want to do, because of my close personal relationship, what I want to do, which I want to have blossomed in France, that I wanted a pro who was close to me politically and personally, and that you were that.

And that's why you were selected.

Thank you very much.

I think if you could put it, you could say it, you could say it quite candidly, him and the others.

On addition, I want him to feel that he's always...

And how much of it remains, how much will be done, I don't know.

We should do that.

The other thing that in any of your talk with the French, as you know, they're terribly sensitive about the very special relationship and all that sort of thing.

And the French, unfortunately, are parochial as hell.

And I think that sometimes you can say, well, you were talking to the president,

personal affection for the French people, and also a great personal respect for their brains and their limbs, and for any fields that it should be used more on the world scene.

In other words, the more you could use your position to get them in turn out rather than in, but you could point out that it would be useful, that I feel, that I would feel, that I want to talk to Franco not simply about the relationship of the franc and the dollar, but I want to talk to him about East-West

And you can say this, and I believe that France probably today has the best civil servants of any nation in the world.

They tell me that.

Their second line is just superb.

They have some brilliant people.

Better than the British.

The British always used to have them.

They really have some absolutely brilliant, brilliant people that I want to meet.

I want to get more cooperation and so forth.

The door is open for it.

So I want personal cooperation with Montmedoux.

and consultations so that you can always feel that we have that second, that I believe that we should, that the future of peace and freedom in the world would be greatly enhanced if France, which at one time

They think they will like it, but I do not think it's a healthy thing to have the United States be in a position of being sort of alone and being the broker of the free world.

I want them to know that we consider the French at the very top of this.

The other point is in regard to the market policy.

They have this ambiguous relationship with

But if you could get across the line that I, that at this time for us to get into a position of economic confrontation with Europe would torpedo, would destroy

And it must be Europe and America working together with Japan.

And that's the final point.

I told the French, and I also told the British, that we want the U.S. and the new European community, it must have a close relationship because there is a link between the economic and the military.

They don't want to win, but we have to.

My mother's didn't sit down.

She was a little boy.

They'd go out and shoot.

You know what I mean.

to deal with them on a quote-unquote basis.

Basically, I consider that it's vitally important, having made these historic breakthroughs with the Soviets and China, that this year we strengthen our alliance.

They don't mind where we're at.

I think the way that France's mind and heart really is

You know, I think if you could tell Tom to do that, you know, without being too clever, he'd be flattered.

He'd be flattered if you're clever.

The point is that he should be.

He should be.

Everybody likes to hear that.

Tom, though, is one of the eagles.

He's got brains.

Tell me if you've heard me say that to the cat.

He's got brains.

He's a precise...

excellent mind.

He tackles the problem, cuts to the heart of the problem.

And I do not think he should, after he gets past his election, I think it would be a great loss of free work there.

If we don't have the opportunity to play on the world scene and not just on the national scene.

But that's what we would like, and that's what I would like.

I would like closer consultation with these kind of people.

They don't want to appear to be just a bunch of damn shopkeepers.

Nobody really wants to.

And I think the French feel that they won't participate.

You can tell them we won't participate too.

So whatever I can do to further your policy, that's what I want to do.

Let me know if you have any shady or conceptual questions I can carry out.

I think it's just to get across the respect that we have that you find here in this office for France, for a bunch of people.

I believe in you there, because it is there.

It goes back to de Gaulle.

I was a great admirer of de Gaulle.

And Pompidou is the heir of de Gaulle.

And I would like to have a close relationship with my remaining time here.

In some ways, I think Pompidou is more able.

He's quite a fellow.

Well, his wife, she drives a sport car.

Oh, it's a great post.

I think of your predecessors.

I've never been there.

Bullock, Bruce.

Wow.

Dillon.

He said, Bullock.

Yeah, Bullock was there.

I was there.

talk of course quite a lot to dick you're talking a lot with doug dillon well i wish you well we have no plans to come

I think it's my turn, but perhaps we're thinking for the end of the year.

But be sure to distinguish them.

Absolutely.

Whatever we think is useful, we should get together.

And the question is, they all know I have a problem with the Congress at the moment.

I've got to stick around here.

And also with the Russians.

They've got to come out of the way.

Well, I'm hoping very much that you can.

Well, thank you very much.

Have a happy day.

He has a precise and excellent mind.

He tackles the problem, cuts it down to what we would consider the French at the very top of this.

The other point is in regard to the market policy.

They have this problem.

And I do not think he should, after he gets past his election, have a U.S. relationship with them.

I think it would be a great loss for free work.

But if you could get across the point that

That I, that at this time, if those, if we don't have the opportunity to play on the world scene and not just on the French scene, that's what we would like, and that's what I would like.

That I would like closer consultation with these kind of people about any part of the world.

Hell, Africa, of course, the French are still big, and so forth.

But even sincerity, right?

with Europe would torpedo, would destroy the military cooperation which they think is so important, which I think is important.

And that doesn't mean that we're going to find that we're not competing economically, but they're a problem with Laurie and friends and all the rest.

They don't want to appear to be just a bunch of damn shoppers.

It must be Europe and America working together with Japan, and that's the point.

And I think France, the French feel that point.

They want to participate.

You can tell them that we want to participate.

The U.S. and the new European community must have a closer relationship because there is one future here.

Whatever I can do to further your policies, I want to do my best.

They don't want to win, but we have to.

You can also point out that that idea was vitally important that Japan be brought into the club.

Let me know what you have to say.

carry out.

Usually before they go out and shoot, you know what I mean.

Gee, I didn't just get across.

I would like to have a close relationship with my remaining time here.

In some ways, I think Pompidou is beautiful.

This year, we strengthened our alliance.

They don't like where we're at.

It's more like France, Asia, and all that, right?

Right, right.

He's quite a fellow.

Well, I sure like that.

No, that's perfect, yes.

I think that his wife is quite a gal.

She drives a sport car, and he drives a car.

That's pretty good.

France's mind and heart, really.

I think if you could tell how to do it, that would be great.

They are looking forward to it.

Well, it's a great approach.

I think of your predecessors that I know of in there.

Fuller.

Yes.

Bruce.

Wow.

Dillon.

He said, Fuller, shut up.

He's too clever to be flattered.

Everybody can be flattered if you're clever.

The point is,

He's got brains.

He's a precise and excellent mind.

Well, I wish you well.

We have no plans to come.

He tackles the problem, cuts to the heart of the problem.

And I do not think he should, after he gets past his election, I think it would be a great loss for free work there.

If we don't have the opportunity.

I think it's my turn, but perhaps that play on the world scene and not just on the national scene.

That's what we would like, and that's what I would like.

I would like closer consultation with these guys about any part of the world.

We'd be sure to do it.

Absolutely.

Whenever we can.

and so forth, but he was there in relation to Russia.

I hate the French, but they're proud of the glory of France and all the rest.

They don't want to appear to be just a bunch of damn shopkeepers in Congress at all, and I've got to stick around here.

I also think the Russians have got to come out of the way.

Well, I hope very much he can.

And I think the French feel that they won't participate.

You can tell them we won't.

They don't know about that, but they need to see.

They need to see.

After four years, they're going to go, well, thank you.

I'm happy today.

Finally, my French friends are going to do it.

So whatever I can do, then.

I'm sure that your policies will help me do my best possible job.

And I hope that... You don't have a lot of weight problems, do you?

Well, I do.

I love that you're great.

It's the best thing in the world.

It just makes me blow up like a balloon.

Well, thank you, too.

Have a wonderful time.

Let me know if you have any shady or conceptual plans that I can carry out.

But you, I think, just get across the respect that we have, that you find here in this office, for France, for French people, and for Pompidou there, too.

Because it is, it goes back to de Gaulle, you know, I was a great admirer of de Gaulle, and Pompidou was the heir of de Gaulle, and I would like to have a close relationship with my remaining time here.

In some ways, I think Pompidou is...

Right, right, right.

He's quite a foe.

Well, his wife is quite a foe.

She drives a sport car.

She drives a car.

Oh, it's a great post.

I think of your predecessors that might have been there.

Bullock, Bruce, Dillon, Dillon, Dillon, Dillon.

Yeah, Bullock was there.

I was there.

I've talked, of course, quite a lot with Dick.

I've talked a lot with Doug Dillon and Ann Hogan.

I saw Doug at one of these parties the other day.

And now, in a second, we have a speaker.

He looked fine.

He's an able-bodied.

Yes, he is.

Very able-bodied.

Well, I wish you well.

We have no plans to come.

I think it's my turn, but we'd be sure to do it.

Absolutely.

Whatever we think is useful, we should get together.

And the question is, they all know I have a problem with Congress at the moment.

I've got to stick around here.

I also have to rush.

I've got to get out of the way.

Well, I'm so grateful to see you came.

Well, I...

Nixon, Scowcroft & Irwin on U.S.-France relations and Georges Pompidou

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 9, 1973

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