Conversation 895-024

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How are you?

This won't take long.

Thank you.

This won't take long.

I just want to say to you briefly.

After Bill went back to Paris, you know, left after seeing the Egyptian, after I saw the Egyptian, Bill took off to Paris, and, uh, uh, the, uh, Henry went to New York, and the Egyptian, he set out, sent through a, through a channel, sort of curious, and said,

As you know, in both our signing,

So we have, people have kind of gotten used to this business of trying to work not only in public, there's two courses, a parallel course, where the one where we work publicly through formal channels and another through informal channels.

It seems to me that it's worth a try.

Now, it will only work

I've seen your strategy and think it's exactly right.

But you're totally in the game.

In the sense that Henry will inform you when he's going over here to do this.

I would not want you, however, it just isn't going to be healthy to have it go any further than that.

You know what I mean?

I'm not trying to understand it.

And it works fine.

Everybody's going to get the credit.

We're not looking for any big grandstand players.

But on the other hand, I feel that we've got to go the extra mile with the goddamn dejections.

And they seem to put a great deal of, shall we say, stake or emphasis on the fact that they ought to have something, some direct communication with the president, as others have had, to see if there's, if the law channel can be broken.

I think that's basically it.

Do you want to add anything to that?

Joe and I have been talking for months, and I asked him to prepare a paper before he knew this, as I told you.

And actually, the strategy he recommended is exactly what you are saying.

But I just want you to be sure that it is named.

you're negotiating strategy.

The main thing is to get it done.

I don't know whether, maybe you'll do it, and also you may have to speak with two voices.

You may have to take one voice and you may have to take another voice.

But the main thing is that you and Henry have got to speak in total confidence with each other.

And then forget that you talk.

I think the extra model is worth it, Mr. President.

I don't think we're going to be able to solve this thing in the foreseeable future.

But to the extent to which we are involved as a government in a credible way, and certainly Henry being involved, and they having this feeling that they need that we're in direct communication with the President on this matter.

This psychologically, Mr. President, is one of the most important deterrents in the area.

Now, this fellow knows that if he exercises the military option, he's going to get clobbered.

Yeah.

But the element of irrationality is going up.

But to the extent to which Henry can keep the leash on, I don't give a damn if it's for eight months, Henry.

That means you're bull-working the ceasefire.

That's right.

That's the reason for this strategy.

You've got to give them the hope.

It's really, frankly, let's face it, you've really got to make them think there's some notion that something is going on, that we're doing our best with the Israelis, and so on.

We all know the Israelis are just impossible.

I mean, we have two impossibles here, and the Israelis have not given a goddamn inch.

Getting closer to their election, too.

Yeah, yeah, but they're always closer to election than the people still are.

See, that's all an excuse they make.

What do you say?

See, there are election events, and I'm not suggesting I have any answer to it, but on the other hand...

We, uh, I think Henry's, uh, if, uh, I want you just to hold their hand as much as you can and let him do it, uh, in his, uh...

When would you see them?

Would you see them again, Henry?

Middle of May.

Where would you see them?

Europe, someplace.

That's still being debated.

That's not whether you're traveling.

You'd have to have another reason to go.

And you know, Henry...

They're lousy at this business of leaks.

It's worse in the Arab world than anywhere else, any other area that I can think of.

Operating with the Chinese, you were able to keep the channels.

These people will just open their mouths largely because of the fact that words have become a substitute for action.

Thank God for that.

That's good.

So you're allowed to say this.

Let me say this, John.

I'll remember the time you talked to me.

There's been a lot of water in the British since then.

I want you to know that I have great confidence in your skill in this area, and what you've done, what you've gone through.

I have confidence, naturally, in Henry, but I don't want any of this feeling of state fighting the White House.

That's crap.

I've never had these feelings.

Henry, we have made a lot of yardage in certain areas, and if you and Henry can work together, and I'm not even some bleak Southwider.

And we'd just say, I'll tell Bill or anybody in the shirt room, he was over there and his people want to see him.

And we saw him.

I mean, there's no problem with that.

No problem.

We can't be in any position if it leaks out of the night.

Oh, no, no, no.

But we, on the other hand, don't volunteer or anything.

Fair enough.

We're in a pretty good position right now.

We've handled what's going on.

You would sort of work and try to develop something.

And they sort of have a piece of paper that you

I'd be very grateful, and I'd love to...

I mean, now that you've explained the strategy to Joe, and he and I can meet, because he has...

It's a very fertile imagination, and he spent much more time on it.

What I'd like to suggest, though, is that just on occasion, you just, if you don't mind, you pop over here, and so that we can just, just, and it can be done.

And I'd suggest, Henry, that you meet him over in the bathroom, so that this is the case where it looks there's something big that's, or we should meet in your office.

Actually, it's easiest in my office.

We can always drum up some excuse.

I mean, we have a lot of current business.

The other thing I want to say to you is this.

I was told in the Guardian the other day, I thought about your future.

And the Russian thing, it's very much a possibility.

We don't have any other candidates doing it at the moment.

Well, none of Joe's level.

I mean, none of Joe's quality.

Yeah.

How long can we keep it open?

Well, I think, Mr. President, if you agree, we might keep it open through the summits.

then we can see first what's happening in the Middle East.

If the thing dies out, then we don't need Joe so badly.

If it... And if things should get very active in Moscow, he might want to go there.

If it looks as if most of the Russian business gets done here while the Middle East is very active, then Joe may want to stay here.

Mr. President, I said to you the other day, quite frankly...

I have no real preference.

I would say to you, honestly, I probably, on balance, prefer to stay with the Middle East simply because of its activism.

Or frankly, I'll tell you, being ambassador of Moscow at the present time, with the way that this is done, it's frankly done here at another level.

And I'm afraid I've become a personnel robbery.

And I think it's my own view is that I think, Henry, it's better to keep your own.

This is where the action's going to be.

I think if

If this goes as it may, we need Joe more here.

I can also, I think, I think I can help you hold the hands of the Jewish community, too.

I know these people pretty well, and I think I've established a pretty good rapport with them, and I think I can help be helpful.

You know, Roscoe's always intrigued me.

And by God, I'm one of these guys that really needs to put in 10 or 12 hours a day.

And it isn't in Moscow, Mr. President.

I know.

And that's my real worry.

If you send me next June, go.

I'll go.

But I think I could just send you here.

Thank you.