Conversation 897-011

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I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do anything in the arts.

It's a breeze.

I'm not gonna do anything.

I'm not doing anything.

They were very polite.

They moved forward.

We were crying about it.

Yeah.

to this question, because they're, I got five of them, I got five of them, but I just want you to know, I'm showing this to somebody right now, this is the future, serious doubts about these things here in Washington.

Very serious doubts about it.

You agree?

Yeah.

We can go in audiences that are made aware of us.

Yeah.

Hell yes, you're better off to go to a local, you know, meeting of a local.

That's what you're talking about.

I mean, you can call some night, talk to them about crime, abortion, deputy, murder, all of a sudden,

Ron's got it all worked out.

And he's got the views of his advisory group.

Well, the problem is you gotta, you don't know what's gonna happen.

Well, but when you end it,

You can't leave that out because you get into the variables of what you do if you do it before the Magruder story is out or after the Magruder story is out, for example.

The EPOs, they all, you know, yes, you've got to establish your position in what you've done, not the scenario.

Yeah, but I don't go to the background.

The ideal time to do it is when you break the case.

I mean, it's to get Peterson over here, you run your background, tell your story, you know, so I got into this, and this is what I'm doing, or do what else you're happy doing.

And then you say, and this has led us, as we fully expected it would, to a next major step that

General Peterson here will describe, which is the status of the case today.

And Peterson says we've reviewed these steps and I can tell you today that we've broken the case.

That Jeff Bruder, one of the principal figures in this, has given us a full report of exactly what did transpire.

It clearly establishes by his own testimony, his own guilt.

as a high official of the commission.

They made charges against others and provides charges against others, which we are pursuing with the same diligence that we have up to now.

And I will not discuss the others.

I'm not going to get into that.

We'll report to you periodically when there, as developments take place.

But this is following the process.

I'm going to jeopardize the, it's, he can make the patient, I don't say anything

And nothing should be said that will jeopardize the rights of the defendants.

But I also am not going to say anything that's jeopardized.

It would jeopardize our prosecution because we're moving on people and we're going to go.

Ron will mention to you in his speech, I don't know if you mean Glenn Garner, has, as you really expect,

followed your orders to steep himself in the Watergate.

He has steeped himself in the Watergate and he wants to report.

He has now said it is imperative that he meet with you for at least five minutes, preferably prior to two o'clock today, to report to you.

And what he will say to you is that it's clear to him that you are in possession of knowledge that you cannot be in possession of without acting on and that your action has to include

if you've got to remove me, probably earlier.

Although he has an interesting thesis, according to him.

I have not talked to him.

Which is at least worth considering.

Which is that I move ahead of the game, right now, and put out my whole story, including the factual details, without pulling any punches,

to the committee.

But I go into specifics.

I understand Mr. Stein delivered it to Mr. LaRue and that it was, while it was not done for that, my motive was not to provide funds for the defendants.

My motive was to move these funds back where they belong.

But I have to agree that I fully recognize that LaRue's motive in accepting the money was, as I have been told at least,

a need for funds for the defendants, to provide legal fees, and to provide support for their families, which I, and I act at all times on the, at the instigation of and through John Dean.

In other words, I was not, I didn't do any of this.

John Dean came to me and said, we need this, and I knew I wanted to get rid of the money, and I said, this is the way to do it, and so on.

And I must say that John Dean, the President's Counsel,

through whom I was working and who was my only contact in this matter, at no time advised me that I was involved in doing anything that was illegal or improper.

And I would assume and would act on the assumption that I would.

I wouldn't.

I don't want to get in the position of hanging someone else.

Well, but who's going to appoint himself at that point?

The question is whether he didn't get

He's in possession of all the things that happened before that.

Len makes a rather interesting case, which is that you've got to look at this in terms of the president and the presidency.

Right.

That's what we all say.

Right.

Does he know whatever he does?

No, I don't know.

Peterson?

I see the point because he's asking for you.

Right.

Now his, well, he's asking, he's suggesting a route that he makes the case that it's a better route for me in a long haul.

And it's a better route for the presidency.

But you'd be the first one to go out?

Yeah.

And I go out and I resign.

And I resign and tell my story.

Right.

Publicly.

Right.

Not to the press.

I mean, not to the jury.

I tell a whole story, all the details, and I say it is, I am absolutely clear in my own mind that I've done nothing legally or morally wrong, but that will be up to the grand jury to determine.

Then his argument is that I am in a position that he thinks that I can bring something like that off.

And there are other, there are more potentials there than there are on mine.

Mine, I think we have a lot.

I think we have a lot in Earth.

There may be more potentials, I think.

Because I think being is more of a, frankly,

I don't think so.

I should, I don't know.

This, Ron just raised, just this last night, he wasn't even going to raise it, and then he said, well, you might as well know what, how Lent's meant to that.

What the hell information does Lent cover?

I don't know.

No.

I mean, he's basing this on, that you should do this without the other thing.

He doesn't have anything.

You don't just follow.

All he has, he doesn't, he says, I, I, there's no question.

It's quite likely that Bob can get through the whole legal thing.

But then, just look at it down the road.

You've got to go through all these trials and everything.

They're going to get back into it again there.

They're going to get into the money and where the money went.

If we haven't told them ahead of time, they're going to drag it out and drop by shop.

And I can see it's a weak appearing case in terms of, you know, what did I think I was giving the money back to them for?

Where did the money go?

There's no question about that.

I knew where the money was gonna go.

Some of it, I don't think all of it did.

But I knew where some of it was gonna go.

And, but, but you guys, I didn't see.

I know, I know, I know.

He, I can, what the rule justifies as to what he, the money was for was to shut him up, or it was for the purpose to provide help.

See, that's the other point.

From my viewpoint, it wasn't to shut him up.

But that's a hard case for everybody to believe in stuff.

Well, absolutely.

But that...

So they can't make the legal case, so... Ron said that he's on purpose.

Ron White, this is an area of gear going on.

No, no, he's opposed to it.

It's wrong, but he says, you know, I'm biased, so that's a judgment call I probably shouldn't even try to make.

But he said that for a reason, which is a singular word.

I haven't raised that with Ron.

All I've said to Rogers is not to say that either of you should leave.

But he just knows the facts.

Could you, you know, really, so that when we meet within the film, I really could, you know, you, as to what the points of vulnerability are, you could go just cold turkey and say,

I want him to know the culture, even say that's what I'm talking about.

Did you do that?

And point out, it's my view that the others, this is a legal, it's an unlawful case, but it's just the fact that I'm this way.

at 3.30, and I'll see you at 4.

That'll be very helpful.

You can get a bill there, a new level there.

All right.

The, I have to just say, so that Len doesn't think that I, that I don't want him to, I just don't want him to come and tell me the obvious.

That's the point.

Could Irvin just let Len know that the events that overtaken her,

He's come up with the same information that John did, and everybody was looking into the picture.

Well, the idea of, you know, we talked about this a week ago.

Talked about it for a month, I blame you.

Back to San Clemente, I made the pitch for my going out ahead, but not going into as much detail.

If I do it now, it's what they've got.

If I do anything that's good, I'm going to do everything.

That's Ron's point, and I think he's right on that.

What does Ron think, you say, leading up to PR?

Does he think we should try to tell the truth?

I'm not sure.

I think he does.

I think he says wait and see.

Wait and see.

See, his point is there's no question that I'll be tarnished.

That's right.

The question is whether you're .

And you have to evaluate that at that point.

That's right.

And it seems to me at that point you have the option of my saying to you that I've concluded.

And I'll say that now.

I've concluded that I'm tarnished to the point where I can't be useful.

Right.

You're useless and impaired, and therefore you can't do what you want to do.

Right.

That's where you put it.

Sure.

Then I go out, and Garnet's argument is that then I go out and hit some of this, use the position that I've established that way from the outside to...

I think he spells that out, but I'm not going to get into it.

Well, I'm going to get into it.

Who was it that said that?

Who?

Len and John Irving.

No, Ron and John Irving.

Yeah.

I don't know what, you know, Lynn's so concerned about things that you almost have to see him just to keep that in account.

Why don't I see him after I see Rogers?

How would that be, you know?

In other words, I don't have a plan.

I've got to get some thoughts in my mind.

I'm not going to trouble him.

See, Ziegler's been, apparently Ziegler's been meeting with this group of men with Jackie Rose and more.

that they've been running out of paper.

Could you ask to say we're going to have Len put on a piece of paper before I meet him?

Sure.

And that would be helpful.

And I can tell him I need it before then.

Tell him I'm meeting with Roger at 4 o'clock.

I'd just like his recommendation on a piece of paper before then.

I want to see the address of that.

How's that sound to you?

Let me say that I didn't.

You may know something about that.

places that he was talking about was a real danger, threat to the presidency.

Maybe I don't mind at all.

What do you think?

Maybe you just better do it all.

So John thought he should have written it, that that's what he should have done at the beginning when he was writing it all.

But maybe you have a problem with that.

I mean, just secretaries, you've got to write it out.

He's working with Ron now, rather than John.

I just, you know, it's impossible.

That's why I hope Rogers can stay cool and sort of above it.

It's impossible for any of us to really get a feeling.

I just have a horrible feeling that we may be just, you know, that we're just way over-grammatizing and all that, right?

I have to say that's self-serving, too.

Well, as you know, of course, that would be the tendency.

That's a troubled environment.

I wanted to get a vision on the legal side.

I didn't read the evening.

I must say, I didn't want to get acquainted with the case.

But I really wanted to get acquainted with the problem with the second curfew and all that.

Because Len Bond always reacts.

to things that might have been not right, that God, you've got to do something just out of the credibility of the person.

Yeah, but that's, you know, the credibility gap in the old days.

Well, there's not even... Len is a pennant, but that's...

If we had reacted garments-weighting and other things, we would be where we are.

That doesn't mean he isn't right this time, necessarily.

I know.

I'd like to, if that's okay with Bill.

Yeah.

What are you asking?

Tom, it's a great idea to meet with just you, or meet with two of you.

I prefer to meet with two of you.

And then he meets, uh, I don't know, a senior foreman.

I wrote that it makes a strong case that I was, like, making a statement, and by making a statement, I mean this.

Peterson's told me to do, and Earl can be called a grand jury, he's told me that, out of the circumstance that I could not advise you, with my absolute knowledge of the law, I've been confronted by the next statement.

You know what I mean?

Sure.

But basically, if you're gonna answer the question, I'm gonna answer it.

President Miller, by the way, that's alright.

I really, I...

I think Len's view is that what you need is a bold move, you know, a really, some kind of dramatic move.

And Henry feels that, but Henry feels you ought to, you should go on television.

I don't know, it still takes 9 o'clock years to end, which is his solution to any problem.

And do you believe I should do the 9 o'clock news, sir?

On this?

No.

I don't think, I mean, we're all steeped in this, but look at the newspaper.

Where's the Watergate?

Well, in the country, it's not that big of a deal.

It starts, it'll be big in the evening news.

It should be handled as a news story.

I'm not going to go on and say, look, we're in hell of a shape.

It'll be a big story about it for a couple, three weeks, let's face it.

Yeah, that's right.

But it's not going to be a, it won't.

They're going to have a hell of a time.

All right, I'm going to get off.