Nixon & Kleindienst on Watergate and Daniel Ellsberg

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I wanted to see you for a couple minutes here before I saw Dave back here sit down.

One point that I think is, I appreciate your being sure to inform Elliot, I was just wondering if he has some doubts on his mind in this thing, is with regard to that insanity of that Ellsberg thing.

that we had the information.

But you know, that story was kicking around before that.

It was in the hands of the Department of Justice before that, as you know.

I mean, this Ellsworth

The way that it happened, apparently, was that the CIA, in their investigation of Hunt, in their investigation of Hunt and Hunt, he had a roll of film, and they had a film of him and Liddy or something like that, a picture, standing in front of the doctor's office.

Okay.

See?

That was, that was in, that was...

Uh, Peterson had them.

Peterson had them.

You didn't tell me that.

Huh?

I thought I didn't know that.

Yeah.

Well, good.

Well then, maybe you're on the right man to talk to.

The only thing I know about it is what I learned the day I came over to you, and that was just the fact of the burglary.

The unnamed source, of course, was Dean.

Uh, Dean.

Well, Dean actually carried that information.

The source was earlier even than that.

He yelled to me, well, honey, you know, when he punched me first, you know, he said that there was some picture.

He didn't just say it was a burger or anything like that.

He said that there was that, that, that the investigators had found.

You understand?

They didn't have it.

It wasn't here in the wilds.

We didn't have it at the damn thing.

But that's where it was all the time.

And that's what you were telling me.

Where'd you get it?

Yeah.

Where'd you get it?

Well... That's my point.

We're talking about the Ellsberg Psychiatrist's Office.

Exactly.

Because I'm not...

I'm not clearly good.

It was reported to me on the day that I came in to see you.

That?

That.

That Lydia had told him that they had burglarized the office.

That was not a Watergate situation from which I had reached out.

That was an Ellsberg case.

That's right.

I had responsibility.

That's right.

The only thing that was important to me was that under the great decision, under the decision of Supreme Court,

if any evidence was obtained by the government that they could have used in the Ellsberg case, that would be the only way to obtain evidence, and we have the duty to report them.

We are not even permitted to conduct an investigation to determine whether we got anything.

Yeah, but in this instance, of course, as you know, one of the reasons, as we were discussing that night, and I discussed it with Peterson before, in this instance,

That's the whole tragedy of it.

No evidence was obtained.

That's right.

There was no evidence.

That's correct.

There was no evidence.

That's why you didn't report it.

That's right.

And also, we...

So what I mean is this.

The question, obviously, that would come to the mind of everybody else would be, well, why in the hell did the Justice Department have such evidence

Why they fell, did they sit on it?

That's a good question.

And the point is, you didn't have any.

And that's why you didn't turn the key over.

That's correct.

And on the other hand, you thought just to report that, there had been a burglary, should be, according to the judge, so we were benched over backers.

Wasn't that how it was?

And the lawyer had to do the... And I said, Mr. President, I need to get to you on the practical problem.

He didn't want me to say.

We had two memoranda chasing around my apartment for, by this time, ten days, unbeknownst to me.

One silvered to Peterson, disclosing what his unnamed source, i.e.

Dean, said.

And another from a guy named Martin to Maroney, the Deputy Assistant Attorney General, said, we looked through our files and we got nothing out of them.

And so we watched and went through our files.

Well, they made a complete check to see if there was any evidence

given certain properties as a result of that purgatory, they described that there was none.

As a practical matter, in my opinion, with nine people in Canada having possession of these... No, but we did exactly the right thing.

My dear friend, I'm not going to be sitting on our ass on that.

Well, I want you to make it clear that if you would just be sure to tell Elliot

Dean had been saying a lot of things about this, and you were checking them out.

That's what happened.

For nine days, you were checking them out.

Yes, sir.

You'd been checking them out.

That's what happened, isn't it?

And the president, when you went to the president, he said, turn it over to the judge.

I've had two press interviews since the verdict of this thing happened.

I said, I came and told you, and without any hesitation, he said, give it to me.

i also said that the reason i took nine days was we wanted to make a thorough check to ascertain the fact whether we had any such information all right

The Justice Department had it.

But he didn't have it.

I mean, I didn't have it.

My department didn't have this before he told Silbert on April 16th.

You know what they've done?

Well, by God, I'm sure they didn't have it.

If they did, then somebody was very goddamn derelict in their duty over there.

I'm sure, Mr. President, the Department of Justice learned it.

I think they had it signed on Sunday, April 15th.

I think they had it signed.

You do?

I think he has a thing about Peterson or something, but my information is that Peterson, understand, I only did, because I asked her, and I said, what the hell is the score on this thing, too, because he has to do a little checking.

He says, well, Dean, Dean's story is that Peterson had the information through some

Well, I wouldn't have believed it.

Why did you try to catch a burglar or something?

They didn't picture themselves out in front of the damn place.

They didn't burglarize.

Why did they get a purse?

I don't know.

like this that their president had no information that he uh that uh if he says well did dean tell this thing in march i don't know what he told him i mean it isn't a question but the president throughout this has told people that he gets to follow up on every lead and has given a free hand on everything

I want you to be sure that he comes into this job knowing that I'm getting

present.

Dean told that to Silbert on Sunday, June 15th.

Silbert wrote a memo to Peterson on the 16th.

Peterson investigated it and came in to me.

I came over to you.

That's the record.

As a matter of fact, when I talked to Peterson, that's my holiday.

When I had talked to Peterson, I had several talks

you want, but you must not go into national security, which, of course, is my responsibility.

And he said, I understand.

I understand.

But I, uh, I said, I, uh, I, uh, the, uh, uh, well, then, then,

You know, through our dear friend, John Mitchell.

But anyway, he said that any evidence that they ever get ever goes to the prosecution.

He told me some of the things that he hadn't told me before.

Son of a bitch.

Now he's making up things.

He's making up things.

I didn't see him until the 27th of February.

27th of February.

But the other point is, I want Elliot to have the absolute assurance that as far as the president is concerned, he has no information whatever about this and that.

I then came and told you and then we submitted

The only check in the armor there is that I may have told somebody, or he may have told somebody that he informed me earlier of the fact that Hunt and Liddy worked on the Ellsberg case.

Now, if that comes up, it comes up, but I told, but I told Peterson immediately, you know, I told Peterson.

Peterson was aware.

And, uh,

I wanted to know, though, that I told Peterson.

And Peterson was aware of it.

His question was, was anything obtained?

I said, nothing.

I remember the sign.

I said, can't date it.

I remember Peterson's sigh of relief.

He says, thank you.

He says, oh, thank God.

That's all I had to hear.

people's ass out of here to right and left.

Another one I'd like to either to, uh, uh, you've got to keep under, under control here, so if you've got time, Leonard Thurman, who I've got vermin on this, because Dean, you know, is yin and around him, and you could say, look, the president

I didn't even know about the Ellsberg, this crazy thing that happened outside.

I didn't know they were doing anything out there.

My only knowledge was when I got Dean and Margie, everybody couldn't know about it, but they did tell me, thank God.

I'm glad he did.

I don't want to know about such things.

Neither do you.

It's Stephanie at the academy.

I thought the way you were looking at me as you thought I was,

Well, I had nothing to do with that, Mr. President.

I know.

If I had.

Everybody thought I was looking at him.

I was looking at him about one thing, and he thought I was looking at him.

No.

I'll tell you who burned me up.

I'm afraid it was Carmen.

And it was just, it was well-intentioned.

It's a silly thing.

But you don't do it that way.

It's a silly thing.

Put it inside the office.

It's a silly thing.

Nobody's going to state any files.

You know what I mean?

They're my files.

Yes.

But all of that

No problem.

All right.

First day.

Nixon & Kleindienst on Watergate and Daniel Ellsberg

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 3, 1973

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