On May 8, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:23 am and 10:16 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 912-003 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
All right, Mr. President.
There are a few second chances.
Mr. President, all right.
Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President,
Okay, yeah, I just, I think I just kind of wanted to get the crap out of the way first.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
Well, that's just a little response to the question.
I think that's a good one.
The general approach would be to keep the, to keep the Nielsen.
The Nielsen doesn't have a new role.
They can have only one again, which is by the government.
to receive three meetings as a result of the translation.
There will be a two-hour meeting on the two two-hour meetings, the first day, and then the second day, and then a community planning session.
Okay.
And there's going to be a number of activities such as three meetings,
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
You know, there is, you know, it's anticipated that the press, the press, the press meeting is suggesting that if this happens, we have to do it the very first day to get it out the way we got it.
I mean, I would have to agree with that.
I mean, the problem would be as well, certainly, you know, that, you know, there must be one more hour to get it done for us.
I don't know if that's it.
Oh, yes, yes, sir.
We had a good talk with the old man.
We started out with where we are, what Bill said, and so forth.
He, uh, for much the same reasons that you have, I thought it would be very... You'd rather at least try to... Oh yes, but I did it as my idea.
Yeah.
And he said, gee, it would really look like something that we were journeying for, a crucial battle of a century, and to do a thing like that would be...
I think something like that.
It is a crucial battle, but I don't...
Now I have a gut reaction.
We can.
I mean, I'd like to move it from the White House.
I'd like to make a big, spectacular move.
I know the common common always thinks in these terms, and everybody does, and Ron and Ron think in these terms, but just moving people around doesn't make me think there's much change, much motion.
You know, no pizzazz.
I know those arguments, but as I said, God damn it, we can't beat the price of pizzazz and that effect.
If Rogers should move,
at this point.
A devastating event.
I went over the whole setup with him.
What else did he suggest?
Well, he agreed with Schlesinger.
He thinks Schlesinger is an excellent man and good on the Hill, so we won't have any problems.
He was not keen on Casey.
He said Casey is a little over the hump and has been there, although he gets along with him.
He's a little dark.
at all why he said that now i have a a better solution for cia in my view one of our problems is to is to encourage the professionals good we've got a superb one good he uh bill colby colby excellent he handled
a State Department defense job in Saigon, in a crucial year, out of the department.
I know his son.
I know his son.
Okay, Colby gets the job.
He's superb.
Good.
And he'll be a shot in the arm to every professional.
Good, good, good.
Let's decide that right now.
I know Colby.
I know his son.
He's superb, though, and we don't want him to be a professional appointment.
That's excellent.
And really, that package in itself is good enough to go this week.
That's right.
Well, we have that much to go with.
Any thoughts about an outside man?
Does he like the idea of an outside man?
Yeah.
Now, on the council, he said, you have to get somebody.
Right.
He doesn't think Armin is really up to it.
Right, yes.
But I mean, for an outside council, he means for Watergate or an inside man?
No, he said he wouldn't make a big fuss over it.
He'd just bring in a man.
And he said, if you can get Chappy Rose to come in,
to be the president's counsel and let him operate out of the EOB and work with the president on this thing.
I don't know that there'll be that much work to do, but we just need a better legal head here and a fellow that doesn't stampede and start wringing his hands every time there's a bad news story.
That's a possibility.
The other possibility is Casey himself.
I think he's a lawyer, isn't he?
But a head that...
is not going to have to come don't know whether she sees up to that rose is quite good and he's got much balance yes he's found and he's unflappable and he'd be off and running if we could get him to do it he gives me the argument the fact that he
We don't have to raise it.
If that becomes special counsel to the president.
That, I think, is our best bet.
And it's really our best bet.
We've let Rose answer them.
I had to think that.
We went the other route that was high profile that was designed to do something.
Now I think we're sort of going more to a paced drive towards excellence and just steady issue.
You know, the more you think of it, Al, it's the right thing.
I think it's the right thing.
You can read all the stories this morning and so forth online, but God damn it, it's just more of the same.
It's just crap, you know what I mean?
Don't you agree?
I agree.
I think it's just crap.
And it's going to ultimately resolve itself to discrediting that son of a bitch.
And I think the weight of the presidency and the... Did you see the Harris Bowl week?
No, I didn't see it.
And Rothbard, I'm very interested.
It said that by a vote of 59 to 31, which is just above what Harris had previously counted, they thought the president should be given the benefit of the doubt on this matter and should be allowed to manage his term in the next three to eight years.
But the other interesting thing is by a vote of 77 to 13, they imposed suggestions that the president resign.
Of course.
It's unthinkable.
It's unthinkable.
Well, my point is that, you know, these are, this sort of thing does give us the, you know, you're talking, you'll have the people and teachers and the press and the rest, but the country doesn't want the president to just be a gunman, so they haven't even yet, this poll was just taken over the last week.
And they'll never, they'll never arrive at that position.
Oh, they may, but you see, you don't need one person there trying to do that.
You realize that.
I see.
God damn him.
He's an old peddler today.
I can't figure out the very worst he's going to say.
And be prepared to hit him at a proper time.
But no, Senator.
And let the Senator a bitch go.
They're not going to give him immunity.
He's going to piss.
Or he might not.
I mean, you can't tell.
I mean, if he doesn't give him immunity, he's got to be worried about his own skin and what he wants to admit.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
But, you know, the other thing is, if one
One, disloyal president's counsel, lawyer of all people, not just a Henry Kissinger walk-on.
You know, as a disgruntled person, people will understand that.
But the president's lawyer is a fusion strike subject.
This is something that I think we can destroy.
I think we must destroy it.
We have to.
We must do.
We never can allow this to happen.
Even if I were guilty as all hell, and I'm not guilty of what's happened to me, I don't need to protest it, but you know, I'm a son of a bitch because of stupid people.
Well-intentioned stupid people.
That's something entirely different.
Here we've got a vicious little coward who's trying to protect his ass at any cost.
And therefore he's going to be destroyed.
And he's emerging as that type of character.
You really think so?
Yes.
Yeah.
Very good.
Well, let's come back now to what Bill did.
You have a lower profile, right?
Yes.
Is there a way to see Ron, but not to answer all these questions?
That's what I'm trying to do.
These questions are coming up all the time when I'm stuck.
And when they relate to others, Ron can say, well, I'm not going to comment on any case.
Which, for example, I told him to say with regard to this Justice Department's flat wing.
I mean, the idea as to whether or not the Justice Department or we held the president, because the security region held that affidavit back from that goddamn Ellsberg trial.
Of course it was held for a while.
They were checking the son of a bitch to see whether the facts were clear.
You know?
And they had a very small period of time.
But why wouldn't you check?
He sent the stuff to them.
They'd done it before the trial was over, even though they were so material.
Well, that's nitpicking.
Rude nitpicking.
Right.
What I'm getting at is this, though.
How do we get questions like that answered away from the White House?
I guess maybe we just have to survive that.
Ziegler is better at this than anybody else.
I think so.
There's no way of breaking it out.
I've thought that over.
Let's just decide that we not try to do that.
However, let us ask Jeffrey Rose on a temporary basis just to come in as a special assistant to the president.
That I think is the best.
Would you call him and just meet him here?
And he'll be the guy to just handle all these matters.
And what's his garden can work?
The garment is very, gets along very well with it.
In fact, the garment leans up.
So I think it's an excellent solution, short term.
Right.
Now, what about your, do you have any further thoughts with regard to, with regard to the eye problem?
Yes, I thought about this very hard.
I think it's a high risk.
People will say that you're frustrated.
On that, though, we just haven't got a candidate.
No.
There's a fella.
Colby?
Yeah.
Colby's a superb piece.
Yeah.
Smooth and capable.
Or put him in the CIA and the FBI won't work.
No, I think that's bad, too.
We can't put a career FBI guy up over there.
Now, there's one that retires.
A couple of years ago.
No, no, no.
This is the young man.
Not Sullivan.
He's a lawyer and a practicing lawyer now.
I'm getting the credentials on him.
He's very highly thought of in the bureau.
He is.
That's the kind of a guy I would like.
I think so.
Somebody that's been in the bureau, that is highly regarded.
He had 31 years service and retired at, I think, age 52 or 53.
So he's about the right age.
He's mature and yet not... Where does he practice at?
I think here in the district.
I'm going to get a check on that today.
That's what I would like.
I'd like a career man over there.
See, then you're going to get the bill with this bureaucracy.
And then that would solve our situation with regard to the domestic council, because I'd bring up right over here.
Rather than having to tear in the hell out of his department.
You see, it's a different system.
The big play thing means shift everybody and fire this one and hire that one and the rest.
But then there's another way.
Another way is to not just disrupt the whole thing.
It is going forward.
Yes, we have to shift some.
But the shift certainly of the CIA shift will be very, very easy.
It will.
And you've just got two superb people and two key people.
Could we start moving on that one, even as of today, you think?
Or what would be your view?
You still, do you still think we'd want to have a cabinet meeting Thursday?
Are we ready?
If it's, if it's just that.
Or just announce those two meetings.
I think no cabinet meeting.
I think just, just go along now.
But the only thing about the cabinet meeting, if we had a cabinet meeting, we need to announce you, and we need to announce those two.
I think we could clean up the lines within the cabinet.
The Indians are, the cabinet members are very unsettled now.
They all want to come and cry.
They need steady.
This new guy in transportation is a goddamn disaster.
Well, you haven't been able to get Russ to resign.
I talked about it.
What does he know he's going to do?
He's going to resign.
Good.
He knows he has to, but I didn't want to do it in a brutal way.
That's right.
On the new guy that opens, he got his way, but as I said, he won't show any.
But he'll somehow, somehow, somehow.
Anybody else in the head that wants to see me today?
No.
George is a little nervous, but he's all right.
Is he nervous about the economy or the drug?
I just think he's a little overextended.
He's worried about what it gave him, opening up the administration, working with them more.
Why don't you say, with the head working with him more,
I want to just tell him that if you could tell George that the president has thought a great deal about that.
He thinks that the idea is excellent.
I talked to him last night.
He's in Jamaica.
He called me and I said everything's going exactly the way you'd be comfortable.
I talked to John this morning and told him that he had read the press.
I was happy with that.
That's fine.
That was the most important.
And I said that you were concerned that he not disrupt too much because his traveling abroad is very helpful to us.
And he said, well, he said, fine.
He said, that's good.
It'll make it a little difficult in the short term for me to be available.
Because I leave tomorrow night for Nigeria and so on.
And I said, I don't think he wants that.
I said, I'll be back to you on that.
He said, fine.
I met the Russians.
Well, it's tied in, you see.
He goes to Nigeria and then the Soviet Union.
It's the same trip.
Well, I don't think he should make that one for you, or... No, I don't think so either.
What do we want?
In other words, what... Basically, as you know, the colony thing.
First, his advice will be good up to a point.
Second, his image is very important.
Very important.
At this time.
That's right.
Therefore, he should have the Nigeria trip, but just postpone the Russian trip.
That's what I think.
Right.
And he's ready to do that.
Yeah.
uh could he just supposed to put off the trip for a week and maybe just put it that way then we ought to go ahead i think now with this way have a cabinet meeting on friday as originally scheduled right have a press release for the selection here colby uh you could tell him if rose has agreed you could tell the cabinet he's going to come here and the connelly announcement and i think i could
Very good package.
It's not good.
Not spectacular.
Spectacular, but it's good and it's solid.
That's right.
That's what he wants.
The main thing is, look, we have always gotten to say that you can criticize for being a general receptor and perhaps unspectacular administration.
I got it, and Conley was, of course, spectacular.
Basically, we have done a good job at all, and we are a good administration, but we can't be anything that we aren't.
And we're not going to have a phony PR-type move here.
It's not going to happen.
We may be able to, maybe this FBI guy is professional.
It's really good.
Oh, boy, if we could get that.
Then we'd have them all, and that would be quite effective.
If we could get that.
But you don't think we could be ready to shoot for any deer or the franks?
Well, it depends on this man.
I've got to check him in.
I've had it from two good, solid FBI types.
So I have confidence that he is a good man.
But there may be some hookers in here that we're not aware of.
We've just got to check it out carefully.
If we had to wait until next week to do that, that would be all right.
No, the FBI is in no hurry.
No, because Rockland House is safe.
Well, the only reason the FBI is of interest to us is if it gets to somebody in the domestic case.
In here now, yeah.
I wonder if that's all that important right now.
I don't think it's that crucial in the short term.
We don't have to be penned.
No, we don't have to be penned.
Cole and all the rest of us can handle it.
Very good.
Movement is the main thing here.
Let's just figure this.
That's why I think Thursday we could still go for if we want, for this reason.
Look, John, Alice, let's think in terms, if we might, of Thursday, of trying to get the defense and the CIA and... Connelly.
Connelly could be there.
Because it helps you on a permanent basis.
And, uh, and, uh, and also, uh, that, uh, that, uh, if we could get Cappy Rose, as I have brought him on this line, on a temporary basis, as counsel to the president.
That's what we've got to check.
The temporary business council of the president presents no problem in terms of his boards of directors or any of that sort of thing.
At this point, we plan to become a temporary business council of the president.
That, I think, is very good.
And then, I think, coming Thursday, it's rather than waiting until Friday, we're better.
Good.
And that we can do.
And then we'll hold the FBI thing, start the things in motion.
Grub this guy down and back.
Well, him down and get a good, solid, the best possible professional FBI guy would be the best guy.
That's the best.
Perhaps a dean of a law school would be second.
I don't know whether you would want somebody of that caliber.
We've got a good, solid background.
Well, we've got a guy, but the trouble with him is he's got a very bad stomach and a lot of problems with women.
So it's the dean of the Texas law school.
It's hard to find a dean of a law school that's conservative.
And the FBI director has got to be conservative.
Got to be.
And cannot put in there a... That's what I mean on a professional proven, because you know, he's been raised in the Hoover tradition, and he's going to be tough.
Do you think the loach is a loach?
I think the loach is a snake.
Okay.
He's played the Democrats.
Yeah.
You don't want that.
A lot of them have.
Oh, sure.
Some of them are trying to play us, Hoover, because he gave his name to Sullivan.
I'm not sure.
But he's a good player.
Well, Sullivan's not a good front man, either.
I don't know.
Not a good...
God damn, I just don't know anybody else in the FBI.
Well, we ought to get the best man.
This is such a... We've been thinking of murdering the lawyer, the judge out there, but I think it comes off the Ellsberg case.
He's not a guy to put the FBI, you know, he's too damn controversial.
I'm not sure he'd be the guy you'd want anyhow, as I see some of the rulings he's made.
Yeah, he's bending over too far back with us.
But all that, that's going to, that's a good package.
And then we just go forward with the business of this government.
And announce the Soviet summit on Saturday.
Right.
I talked to Bill Rogers about the Henry problem.
Is it good for you, what he said?
I said, look, I said, nobody knows Henry's foibles better than I do.
But we cannot have these kinds of frictions at this crucial time.
He said, I agree.
He said, we're at a time now where everybody's got to pull together.
He said, I'm going to do it.
But then he used that.
He said, but you know, he said, now Henry's been fooling around with Ismael.
And I didn't know it.
And he's going to schedule another meeting with him.
He said, it all comes back to me through the Soviet church.
He said, I don't care if he does it.
He said, I don't care what the president wants Henry to do, but for God's sake, cut me in on it and don't let me get caught where they go in my face.
Well, he's got to be told.
Why is that?
I said, I'll set upon that task, and when it has to be done quietly, for God's sake, let's do it quietly.
But I said, what you can't do is confront Henry with a
massive challenge in which he gets all this has to go to the president it's a diversion of his time and energies in a crucial moment i said we just have to work together and uh he agreed he said he's always been very reasonable i know you've had it before has richardson got any word of his special counsel yet no he does not but he
That was well-known yesterday.
Handle that well.
I could check that this morning and see.
The thing is, you should build him so that I don't want him to be out of touch with me.
No, I keep, I call on him.
And I, I don't want him to feel that, uh, that, just say the president was the one who thought you handled the announcement just right.
That, uh, he deliberately wants to keep this at arm's length at this point.
Well, he knows quietly that he's to appoint no one without checking in with him.
I guess I can tell, because I may know something about him, but I'll leave it at that.
The other thing is to tell him that I know that the question of the community for Dean has arisen.
He should know that the prosecutors and I and Cole Peterson
After I made my statement on October 16th, that that's a decision they must make.
And, uh, it depends on their judgment as to how they investigate the truth.
But the community must not be used as a, as an incentive to lie.
You know, I mean, for the rest of the day, it's telling, telling basically, finding out that that's his, that's the decision of the prosecutors.
I want them to know that the president is,
And I have said that consistently since the 16th.
And as I first started talking to you, sir, on the 16th, I said, Henry, it's your decision.
You have whatever you can do to get this out of this thing.
I want them to know that out.
As far as I'm concerned, the 6 of 1 1⁄2 does another on immunity, too.
I think, in one way, you could say, if you give him immunity, he isn't going to be as rough.
On the other hand, to give this fellow immunity from prosecuting
That's the way he's trying to play it.
That's the incentive for everything he's doing.
It's the worst thing we could do, and I hope they don't do it.
So that Richardson knows that the President is not trying to protect Baldwin or himself.
I'm not trying to protect anybody here.
You see, that's the whole problem.
The decision is that I want him, Richardson, to know what prosecutors have been told.
Also, the question arises about any delay in getting that information out there to the judge.
You point out that that information was in the hands of the Justice Department.
It wasn't in the hands of the White House.
And then they were checking the proof.
Now, this is another thing, sir, that I would hope that the justice would start answering some of that.
According to Ron, they did it in the New York Daily News.
See, we can start.
And that's how we peel Ron off a little bit as we get through here.
Right.
And as a matter of fact, I would like to put the questions on this case over to the Justice Department.
That's the answer.
Huh?
That's the answer.
That's the answer.
But can we do it now?
We can't now, can we?
Can't put it to Richardson.
He is not... No, I think I would hurt him.
He's not there yet.
He ought to get his prosecutor in.
When does he get... when will he get his confirmation come up?
I think Thursday.
He was up for hearing?
Yeah.
I think he'll go through very quickly.
I would think so.
Now that he's offered a special prosecutor.
Right.
I'll check that out with him.
Now, if he feels that he wants to talk to you today,
I mean, that could be any time.
I don't want you to, I don't want to encourage him.
I prefer not to talk to him, because, you know, I just prefer not to get, I've got this talent.
I...
I think all this man's selected.
Yeah.
And I feel, I feel that their best position is one of total independence.
Until he's, you know, until he can say that I'm, that's the case.
I'm not trying to get a hold of someone anyway.
But I generally...
But I want him to have total confidence in the president, though, throughout this.
If he doesn't sense anything, you don't sense him getting jittery.
No, no.
And I call him every day just to be sure he feels aligned.
And he's got a lot of defense business.
We discussed that.
The transfer of funds issue yesterday we discussed.
He handled that well on the Hill.
It's a tough issue.
No, I think he's, he's just fine.
He's fine.
Well, that little word will help a great deal if he just hears you.
See, I will want you to do things like this quite often for me.
It will help your, it will be just fine hearing from me.
Now and then I will call him if I want to get a conversation with him, and you can call and say, that was just a hell of a good job.
Yes, you'll appreciate it.
Yep.
Now, looking at the cabinet meeting,
I think the very fact that the cabinet knew they were having a meeting on Thursday, the earlier they know it, the better, if you know what I mean.
Right.
That answers a lot of questions.
Now, can't we assume now that we can't go ahead with the meetings and the others?
Yes.
And you, and the only thing that we, so we can have that much of the package going on.
Right.
And that's good.
And then I think we ought to talk a little bit about the conceptual.
Get it.
Yeah.
We want to open a bit.
We want to strengthen our legislature.
We want
Strengthen the cabinet.
Strengthen the cabinet.
That's right.
We're not going to set up a staff system.
That's right.
Personnel appointments, what we've done, that's a great thing for them.
What, personnel?
Yes, that we're giving them a greater... Have we told them that yet?
No, we have not.
Now, they're sensing it because they're going to see the results of the old cabinet.
Ash, yes.
I've talked to Jones and Ash and Scowcroft and the ambassadors.
Scowcroft's already talked to Bill Rogers.
Bill is very relieved.
He said, God, we had a major scandal in the breaking up on that one.
Well, how are we going to handle those?
We're not just putting career people, are we?
No, indeed.
We're going to take care of those that we can justify completely without controversy.
That's right.
But not tickle in with who she was a
the contribution list.
It would just be dynamite, really.
And we've got some good people in that 16, but we've got some that are just plain controversial.
I think I just do it.
We don't have this
I don't have any specifics for them, but we just say that we're going to loosen this up.
Actually, we got the majority of what we tried to get, of 2,000 appointments, almost all of them were damn well... We've already got that.
That's right.
I wonder if the word could get around on this appointment thing very soon.
We can do it.
Well, can we first... Well, maybe you don't have to, unless you don't make a big thing about it.
But as of today, we...
I think it'd be preferable for you on Thursday to be able to say, I'm strengthening Timmy's shop because I want to get greater opening, greater access, and more bipartisanship.
I'm strengthening your hand.
I expect to work with you more closely now and to keep the White House staff and profile down
and make them transmission belts to help you, not to direct you.
Third, I am improving your leverage in the personnel appointment area, where quality is the first criteria, and where you will have a very strong voice because you know best how you want to manage your departments and the final stages here.
Then you get everything.
This is...
They go out.
They go out.
They're going to have a new shot.
I want you to be more impressed.
I want you to spend more time with the Congress.
I have a whole set of talking points here for you.
You don't think we could be ready by Wednesday on that, even tomorrow?
We could, except I'm worried about any possible hookers.
There won't be any with Schlesinger.
There won't be any with Colby.
John Conley is a simple matter.
I'm going to check Conley out to be sure that we haven't got a problem.
I don't, I think conceivable that we would in a conflict of interest.
Why don't you just go to a volunteer?
He's a volunteer.
Now I can call in, I can call in the head of USC who was a volunteer.
We have them all over the place.
Well, we could do it tomorrow.
Thursday should give us a little more time.
I prefer Thursday.
We face it better.
We get a better public statement.
Well, if you would announce a cabinet meeting, let's have a cabinet meeting Thursday.
I don't think the leaders meeting should be held.
I'm not ready to do that.
Fair enough.
Yes, sir.
A good cabinet meeting.
Let's have it at 8.30 in the morning.
Good.
Take it to nine and I want you to give them a little more time to go there.
Right.
And we'll sort of make a hallelujah meeting.
Right.
They'll have a lot of crap with the fan, you know, all they've been listening to all this.
But Al, there's, uh, there's something to be said, you know.
I didn't, I didn't ever see a Harris Bowl or, you realize it, I mean, a Parkland or anything else, but the country doesn't want the presidency to be destroyed.
Yeah.
The country rallies around the president.
They were all rallying around Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs.
A horrible disaster.
You know what I mean?
Now, it doesn't mean that they like presidents when they have terrible problems.
But on the other hand, they realize that we've done some quite considerable things for this country, you see.
And they know we've got some other great things to do, too.
It hasn't been very long since November where they registered and how they felt.
Well, it also hasn't been very long since
Let's face it, since the end of January, when we had the peace announcement, it hasn't been very long since the 28th of March, when all the prisoners came home.
That's right.
There's nobody that... You know, a lot of people are still thinking of that, but...
I wish I'd even mentioned goddamn Watergate on Thursday.
I'd say, but... Yeah.
Coughless, we're going ahead.
Yeah.
These are the changes.
No, we made some changes, but this is not the other thing.
I'm not going to talk about it.
This is that.
That's right.
Get them into their business.
Get them with their hammers and saws out and a toilet.
That's what they need instead of sitting around worrying about their goddamn problem.
That's what we've got to do.
That's right.
So we had a little hell of a meeting recently.
That's right.
And as long as they feel that we understand what have been their difficulties in this transition—and they have been tough.
We can't kid ourselves about that.
Do you mean transitions in November?
Yes.
That's where the problems started, really.
Basically, what happened is—I must take some of the blame there—all the repairs were a little too rough.
It would have been if we hadn't had this other problem on top of it.
Two together was too much.
We would have had great discipline.
But this other thing was too much for the traffic to bear.
Well, this other thing sort of came on top of it.
And everybody thought, oh, now's the chance to get these sons of bitches.
That's right.
And everybody hates the White House staff now.
Who?
You know, when I say hate stuff, the cabinet, the judiciary, the Congress was always saying that they don't like to blame the president.
They like to blame his staff for every damn silly thing that happens.
All right, shall we make that plan then?
Yes, sir.
And Ron can make the announcements at the regular 11 o'clock meeting.
Yeah, yeah.
And Ron makes the announcement.
But you're going to have to start the clearances coldly, quietly, right away.
Right away.
You know how to do that?
I just do it when I'm home and tell them it has to be super secret.
Right.
And then the resident wants a professional.
The resident wants a professional.
And start somebody working on this FBI guy and he can't run away.
Right.
I prefer to get him a good, solid professional.
I don't care even though he's a great, great man to tell that name.
He already lied.
Right.
Right.
I want a professional.
That's the trouble.
You never know what will creep out of the woodpile after the fact.
Yeah, I gave him that thing.
I have a feeling this guy
There's a bit of a... A blister seeker.
Yeah.
That's right.
Like, you know, I just... Get a one blister seeker.
Yeah.
Don't get this professional.
I think you're safe in there.
And one thing about a profession, you can always move them out.
That's right.
After a period of time.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, we don't want to move them out.
I want them in there.
The country will want to have them.
In the meantime, you know, don't worry about it.
That's right.
We have a perfectly honest, totally good man.
Well, right now, he's like, you know, he couldn't do any better than him right now.
He's got, except that we would like shortly to get him over here, because that'll be a good space.
And really, it's the best one.
Yeah, if we could get the FBI guy, let's bring Ruck in here and not change him.
Not change him.
I really think that's what we should do.
That's right.
Because you could work with Ruck and sign good.
You know what I mean?
He'd just be a superb man.
His philosophy is good.
That's right.
That's the other problem, you know.
Ron's pushing for a pizzazz, but the next thing you know, you bring Moynihan in here.
Oh!
Mighty... Oh!
I believe in certain things, down and down, and also in certain ways of running things.
And I've been an MP here for three and a half years, and I have somebody that possesses a burr under the saddle that will kill me.
Now, that's part of the kind of problem.
I'm aware of that.
And you're aware of it, too.
I mean, I can take on any part of it.
That's right.
You know, I could.
It'd be hard.
But even there, he was complaining.
My God.
But we treated him under loving care.
He was a great friend.
We spent more time with him all the time.
And he's very sensitive about just wanting to run every day.
His hand touches.
But the other hand, calmly coming here at this point is very good.
Only if he has a good relationship, he'll come first.
Yes.
And he's happy.
You know, I'm
And he was happy about the trip.
I think the trip was a good idea.
Frank, I'll tell you why, too.
We don't want him here all the time.
Exactly.
And you don't want to start the pattern of this.
I don't want to get on the pattern.
Every time we come around, I want to get him on for a room.
And as time goes on, we get him on for a little more.
You see what I mean?
And he's just a special insult to the president.
That's the way to do that.
People will think it's a lot more than it is.
It'll have some pizzazz.
Yeah.
Oh, no, you're getting the best of both worlds, aren't you?
I'm not getting the best.
I'm not the best in terms of what McGraw wants to pizzazz and the big moves and so forth.
I'll tell you what, what I'm getting and so forth, no big moves this time.
I mean, what the hell bigger move could I have had than to have had a county governor resign and hold him in America to resign?
Couldn't have had it.
And I did it, right?
You still think it was the right thing to do?
Yes, it had to be.
You couldn't have operated, I don't think, with both of those men being named.
So you haven't named them?
No, the place has got to have the appearance of being claimed.
People have got to be gone.
That's right.
That doesn't mean that every time anybody comes under attack, he goes.
In other words, we've got to defend our people when they come under attack, as we have on the other end.
And my own staff has got to be like Caesar's wife.
Exactly.
Yes, sir.
That was the saddest part about Bob and John, because they're both wonderful men.
And they are guiltless.
You know what I mean?
They were waiting.
They were waiting to pounce.
You had no way of holding those men.
And you can see it in the editorials and everything else.
This animosity was building against both of them.
It was building even without them.
I don't mean that by way of criticism.
The other thing, despite when I raised the question rhetorically, what's your right to do, I think we gained quite a bit out of one of the actions where I find that they have to lower the boom on two of my most trusted associates.
When I took their resignation from the attorney general on Plundered Elliott Bridges, and when I made that speech to the country and said I take the responsibility, I think that had to help us out.
It did help us.
It couldn't.
It turned off what would have been a very bad stampede.
That stopped.
The stampede has stopped.
These men— Do you think the stampede has stopped?
Yes, I do.
Well, they're still whacking away, but— They will whack away, and they'll continue, but it's not the same kind of thing.
Your responsible people want this thing stopped.
Well, like your talks with the Congress, Senator.
That's right.
See, that's what you've got.
You've got a bipartisan consensus that knocks it off.
So he'll take care of that operation.
I wonder just if, when you talk to Connolly again, you can say, maybe, but...
I'll forget it.
This isn't the place.
I'll let, I'll let Steve in.
I'll forget you.