Conversation 944-002

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

would be a national, they wouldn't be direct, you wouldn't be the victim, the country would be the victim.

If they create the impression in the Russian minds that we are too weak to act, then we will have years of crisis.

I told the current newsman yesterday, I said, the president has made it look effortless now for the last few years, but wait till we get a series of crises again.

Well, there's going to be an impression of leaving some of these

I'm not out of the meeting.

This was the first arrival circle.

It was just in.

Did you see it?

Yeah, I came in the office here.

Police infection, you know, speeches.

Speaks of the jury.

All the shades and so on.

No, it started very... You make the point in a very disciplined sense.

Exactly right.

We had the whole day in Camp David.

And now you get the assignments to Gromyko and Rogers.

You can pack them off for the rest of the day.

I don't want to say anything, sir.

Well, I think a general review of the world situation on both sides of all the developments that have occurred since the last...

I just want to mention that there was a discussion on some of the bilateral agreements that we're considering.

But if we could, if we're going to sign those in 10 days, tomorrow, it's a news day, and very warmly gone, we could say these are going to be signed tomorrow, and that's the ones that we'll be signing.

If not, I want to wait and see if we can sign them.

But can you wait a couple of hours until I get them all definitely lined up?

I can give you some now.

Well, you can get some now.

And see if we can get one.

Well, cultural exchanges, oceanography.

Are those two going to be signed tomorrow?

Yeah, there's no more than that, because they want to sign them all tomorrow.

Transportation?

Transportation.

Probably, actually.

at least these three in there, and we are considering some others, so it's useful to name the three that you're sure of.

Okay.

I'd just say the rural situation we discussed with every place, if you want to be specific, Southeast Asia, Middle East, Europe.

Just a general review of our bilateral relations, what has happened since the last summit, the rural situation in Germany.

And how to strengthen the momentum of COVID-19.

How to build on the

How to build on the agreements that we made a year ago, so to speak.

How to strengthen the position of coexistence.

How to strengthen the momentum of coexistence.

I like coexistence.

Or the momentum of peace.

Peaceful relations.

And it's not only between the U.S. Do you notice how I struck that in a few different here, too?

Not only between the United States and Soviet Union.

but among all nations.

See, we're constantly getting that in, laying the foundation for that very reason.

And now, on the Friday announcement, our problem is not to overplay it too much, because we're going to panic Europe and China with it.

Oh, I know.

Because our strategy has to be to say it is not a denunciation of nuclear weapons.

The Russians are going to go to hell out of it, as it is.

Well, we'll handle that, please.

Now then, uh, should I say that the two ladies will attend the signing ceremony tomorrow?

Yes.

So, uh, once the ten, they will not sign, but they will be there.

Will there be remarks?

No.

It'd be nice if you just walk by in your car and pick them up.

Sure.

Okay, two ladies will attend.

We will not make remarks.

Just sit there.

We should not make it very much.

I don't think there was any talks last year.

I think we should read the agreement.

Roger doesn't know the agreement.

Who's going to read Congress?

We'll have departmental representatives.

who know they agree.

Get that set up and bring it to Congress.

What is the signing going to be?

10-7.

We'll try to get some Congress to agree on the dot-com base.

Oh, yeah.

Both the Congress and the press will be bringing it to Congress.

We'll bring it to Congress to see if there are any technical issues.

Hmm?

Where?

See if there are any technical issues.

In this international briefing.

Is that what you mean?

You don't want to agree with me.

No, I'll agree on Thursday.

Yeah, well, I mean, you don't have to be set up that way.

Well, you know, the more credit we can get, even if you get there, it's increasing over here.

No, we don't know what the rate is.

It's like the figure.

Well, then, yeah.

I think it's just as well.

I don't think there's any problem with the rate.

They realize that that's where the room is.

I'm going to sign the major agreements here.

But then 3 o'clock, maybe tomorrow, I'm going to get it.

It may have to be 3.30.

There will be a meeting for tomorrow afternoon.

A, uh, a, uh, a plenary session.

A plenary session.

Got to get as much out as you can.

Yeah.

Oh, no, that's fine.

I thought you said something useful is going on.

No, no, that's important.

That's you.

See, this is good enough, and then I don't feel like we can't do this.

If we could indicate that, uh, so you've already referred to the fact that SALT would be discussed and so forth.

If I could say that the two leaders are going to hold until Wednesday discussions on matters such as SALT, uh, and, uh, tomorrow's Senator Gaidonoff, and then, uh, other matters, uh, other matters, uh, will be discussed at the end of the day.

You should mention SALT was discussed today, too.

SALT was discussed today.

Okay, then the other matters that we discussed, economic matters tomorrow, and other matters that are like self-safety and so on, don't advocate and say so.

And should we say Europe?

Well, the trouble is, you mention an area, you get the reference.

You just say other matters that we discussed on Wednesday and Thursday.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

I don't think this is unique, as I think it would.

He's a pleasant man, though he's emotional.

I can see, though, that these two colleagues are just practically dying.

You just wonder if the same thing would happen to him at this point that happened to Khrushchev.

He may be a sort of a clown when he discusses foreign policy,

and manipulating his body.

And I don't think he's got the weaknesses that Khrushchev did.

He hasn't made any egregious comments.

He hasn't been an ass.

He hasn't left people.

He told me when I was in Sevitovo, how he overthrew Khrushchev.

And he just isn't going to be that stupid.

Khrushchev left the secret police uncovered, went alone to the Crimea.

That's how they could do it.

Well, I hope they don't.

It's not a big thing then.

He's very much in our interest, you know.

He was making that long, long protest about the protestation regarding the fact that all the members of the Politburo were off to see him off, that he'd taken up with the Politburo, that he'd taken up the proceeding, that he'd taken up with the party conference.

There were those who disagreed, but that he was totally in charge.

Everybody supported his policy.

It took an hour to return that.

That's how he covers himself.

That's why he isn't going to be so easy to overthrow.

But he's not thinking in a fixed style.

But that can be to our advantage if we play him properly as we have up to now.

Sure.

Now the next step has to be to make another move towards the Chinese.

But we'll do that in August when we go there.

If we can get Chauvin-Lai to come to the West Coast before the end of this year, then I think we've got a 50-50.

Did I see you later?

I think you got your main point and you had to improve it on the love of God.

Well, there wasn't much to say.

Well, but he got the point.

Well, he got the point that what they've got to do is it's all you could make.

It's all?

Can't vote you?

You can't vote the very house.

You made clear there wasn't going to be any compromising.

You made your point.

It's not necessary.

I don't think it's necessary.

I think we're all on top of it.

We're all following him, and I don't think Pat, because he's got good PR sense, will be a little bit diverted here with us.

Same.

So we'll keep Pat in the bazaar.

Right.

And myself in the right.

Could you talk to Erickson?

I didn't because his wife had a baby last night and he hadn't come in yet.

But I've done some checking.

And I looked at the... Read that article very carefully.

I didn't think Derby could.

But it's written in lawyer's language.

And I don't believe Len could possibly have done it.

But there's a lot of legal...

They may not.

They may just put it at the White House spokesman and just lie.

You know, they do that.

We've got to figure these people.

I can't understand why this guy would be making 4,500 words.

That would take him about an hour and a half to read.

Now, you can read 3,000 words.

You can read 150 without question.

You can read 115 words in that.

So it's 4,500 words.

It would take him an hour and a half.

It could have taken up to two hours, an hour and three quarters.

But in the name of God, I suppose he said, God, he said, I'm sorry, I suppose a confession of, of course, a confession of all the things he did that were wrong that this administration was responsible for with its climate and all that sort of thing.

He had Congress and the President, and we thought the President was involved, too.

That shut his Congress, and that's where he went to the other, that's his story.

You know, speaking of this thing, though, you can understand that he will have the best talent in the world working on this dog on sale.

And it's going to be a condemnation of the whole band, even though it's very impressive.

It's going to be

He doesn't make any difference.

They're killing themselves.

There's anything a man can do that he hasn't already done.

I don't think he's going to wear one, especially in cross-examination.

He's not a, he's not a .

Yeah, and Fred's usual explanation is to paint a gloomy picture so that it comes out of shape better than the way he painted it.

I've worked with him enough now, I know that he's essentially a pessimist.

But he's not about this.

In fact, he's more optimistic than I'd be.

I expect it to be a tough, tough period for us.

But it will be.

But we're not done.

When I say that, I don't mean that we're not ready for it.

Hell, we're ready.

If you haven't done nothing wrong, it's going to be covered over by the least events.

Yes, sir.

You never know when the bakers are going to throw anything at us.

And when we make it, the bakers are bound to get some heat from this whole mistake.

Right.

That's an excuse for the president.

But if they send anything and put it on there, the president must answer it.

Just the crisp thing the president asks.

You know what I mean, Don?

We're just not going to get it done.

Fred agrees with that, doesn't he?

Yes, he does.

Absolutely.

And so, as I say, this is a patent.

That doesn't seem to be a hell of a mistake at this point in time.

You made your case.

Now, if there are new allegations, we have to find a way to confront those allegations.

If it would turn out that Bob wouldn't, or that's what I told Freddie would, then we'll have to find another way.

Because you can't let those kind of charges just sit.

Well, they're not who.

It's just the fact that people on television, they have to be... We've got our statement to bridge off.

And boy, over time, that statement has proved to be better than that.

It really has paid off.

Which needed a margin, you know what I mean?

He's scared to death, I guess, of that little perjury.

That's what his problem is, sir.

That's right.

He's...

He's no longer getting a free shot.

And his lawyers have been, you know, they've made it very clear as he wins a piece of that, you know, each week, his lawyers selectively leave stuff out while he's past that point.

He's talking to the money.

He'd better think twice about what he's had.

Later.

I'll see how I feel.

Yeah.

And then we'll see if I, I mean, if there's a lot more, if there's a lot more, if there's a lot more, if there's a lot more.

Oh, sure.

I've got to see whether...