Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 35 › Conversation 035-051
Nixon phone call with Burger on Supreme Court and Pornography law
Tuesday, January 2, 1973 · 8:56 AM–9:03 AM ET · White House Telephone ·8 min
AI Summary
President Richard Nixon and Chief Justice Warren E. Burger engaged in a wide-ranging, informal conversation to exchange New Year's greetings and discuss their respective work habits. The two men touched upon judicial philosophy, specifically criticizing the 'redeeming social purpose' standard in pornography rulings, and shared views on the necessity of age limits for congressional members to ensure political renewal. Additionally, they coordinated logistical details for the upcoming 1973 presidential inauguration, confirming that Burger would administer the oath of office for both the President and Vice President.
- Supreme Court
- Pornography law
- Inauguration
- Congressional reform
- Age limits
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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Thank you.
I went to one Oklahoma, I mean, Texas, and
Arkansas about three years ago, and the problem was that it really caused so much commotion because over 100 people have to go when I go, 60 press and 40 Secret Service.
Well, that just takes 100 seats away from people that just died.
And if you could see it on television, I went up to Camp David and I just saw it up there.
I was working up there anyway.
The instant replay is much better.
It's the only way to see a game.
Of course, there's something to the excitement of hearing that.
Well, I haven't gone to one for years.
I spent it yesterday just the way you did.
I was down here at 9 o'clock.
Worked all day.
That's right.
Even missed a game.
This is the time to actually in these periods like this when people are all gone.
I've been in the office today and yesterday.
And you can just get a lot of the paperwork done that you just have to put aside and say, well, I'll do that someday when I get a few minutes.
I wanted to start the year with a clean, empty box.
I do it every time.
And my box is just as clean as it can be.
They didn't get out all my opinions, but I got all the little stuff out of the way, so now the decks are cleared for another... Now you've got your mind cleared so that you can make the big decisions.
We'll have one coming out pretty soon, too.
Oh, boy.
I've been struggling with this pornography thing.
I don't know how we're coming out, but I'm coming out hard on it myself, whether I get the support or not.
You're right.
Well, I...
I feel, of course, I'm a square.
I'm like Alan.
I'm a square.
I want that.
I mean, I mean a square in the sense that they just it's I've read those cases when I did the Hill versus Time thing.
And, you know, because it relates to the whole freedom of pressing and.
And let's face it, they've just gone overboard.
That's all.
That's always a question of balance.
I mean, maybe you can...
They go back to these 16th century stuff and say that...
Well, what's wrong with that?
That was great art.
Well, the stuff today is not great art.
The stuff today is just, it's purpose.
What is that term that they have?
A redeeming social purpose.
Yeah, good God.
One of the biggest frauds ever.
Oh, that was a Brennan opinion, wasn't it?
I think so.
Yeah, yeah.
That's a phrase that emanated from some of the campuses in this period.
Redeeming social purpose.
You know, this means that if they have one of these outrageous orgies, then if they mention Vietnam or the condition of the ghettos, that redeems the whole thing.
Oh, boy.
Isn't that something?
well what else do you have uh you have a do you have a other decision bussing thing coming out or no that's way down the road that's good the longer the better yeah the longer the better is right right maybe we've been into that maybe we can maybe get some legislation passed and get it out of the way we've got uh i i think i think things are coming in
I get impatient, but they're coming.
By the way, this young fellow, young now for you and me, he's been 12 years at Rehnquist.
He's a real star.
Isn't that great?
Well, we'll try to give you one day if we ever get a chance to try to get another one.
I have no ideas.
I understand that...
You know, you remember General MacArthur's famous statement when he spoke to the Congress, I'd put it a little differently for Supreme Court justices.
Supreme Court justices never die and they never fade away.
Right?
You've got to get some young fellows up here in the 60s.
You guys are all right.
I mean, my guys in their 60s are great.
The Berger, Blackman, Powell triumvirate.
But I'll tell you, let me say I agree.
I think one of the problems in the Congress, I was looking over a list here of our Republicans, and good God, I mean, we've got people over 70 that I hadn't realized.
I mean, Les Ahrens, Bill Wood and all and so forth.
They're too old.
They're too old.
You know what I mean?
Not because, understand.
Up until, I think you could, frankly, in a court, I think you can serve, say, to 75.
Because there, it's a different kind of a thing.
But at the Congress, I think you've got, I think the House and the Senate, you ought to be out of there by 70.
Because, you know, that's a murderous thing down there.
That's the big reform that needs to be had over there.
It's just getting some bigger guys in their 40s.
Nobody should run for the House if he's over 40 because he can't mount anything.
Run for the first time, I mean.
And nobody should run for the Senate if he's over 50 for the first time.
You see, because you've got to be in so you can serve 20 years.
I've been trying to preach this.
George Bush is going to help a lot in that respect.
He's a great choice.
He'll be an attractive guy to attract.
candidates, young... Well, you see, we've got Bush in that plight, and then Brock is going to be the Senate campaign committee man.
He's a young, vigorous fellow.
And Bill...Butt Brown, you know, the son of... Clarence?
Clarence's son, who was just right as a tack.
He's going to do the House job.
Well, he's a big, smart, not nearly as abrasive as Clarence, and almost as smart.
So I think we'll have a fine team getting candidates this time.
Well, it's mighty nice of you to take the trouble to call back.
We just wanted to leave our greetings.
But we'll see you on the inauguration.
I mean, you're the guy that has to swear me in, you know.
Yes, the vice president I talked to the other day, I guess that tradition has varied with the vice president, but he called me, asked me if I'd do it, and I said, yes, I'll do two for the price of one.
That's right, that's right.
Well, actually, what happens is that in...
that the vice president actually normally does pick somebody else.
I had Nolan swear me in in 56.
I don't know who did it the other time, I've forgotten.
Nolan did it in 56.
But it doesn't make, it's a matter of, it varies.
And I think it's really neater to have you do both.
Yes, it reduces one more body on the planet.
That's right.
Hadn't thought of that.
Hadn't thought of that.
That space is going to be premium.
That's right.
Well, we'll look forward to seeing you.
We're looking forward to seeing you.
One of the beauties of my oath, you know, it's very short.
His is quite long.
His is the same.
You know the difference.
Did you know there's a difference?
Yeah.
His is that long, and you know that you give to senators.
Yeah.
But mine is very short.
I swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.
It's about seven lines long.
Even I can remember that.
Okay.
Good to talk to you.
Bye.
Bye.
NARA Description
On January 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Warren E. Burger talked on the telephone from 8:56 am to 9:03 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 035-051 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 35-51
Date: January 2, 1973
Time: 8:56 am - 9:03 am
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Warren E. Burger.
[See Conversation No. 829-24]
New Year's greetings
-Burger’s recent telephone call to the President
Washington Redskins-Dallas Cowboys’ game
-Problems of President's attendance
-University of Texas-University of Arkansas game (1969)
-Press and Secret Service
-The President’s viewing on television [TV]
-Camp David
Burger's schedule
-Attendance at football games
-Work on New Year’s Day
The President's and Burger’s work habits
Forthcoming Supreme Court decisions
-Pornography [Miller v. California]
-Burger's position
-The President's compared to George E. Allen
-Time Inc. v. Hill
-Freedom of the press
-The President’s view
-Need for balance
-51-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
(rev. Oct.-07)
Conversation No. 35-51 (cont’d)
-16th century art
-Comparing to 20th century art
-Redeeming social purpose
-William J. Brennan, Jr.
-Origin of phrase
-Universities
-Mention of Vietnam War, ghettos
-Busing Cases
-Possible legislation
Supreme Court appointments
-William H. Rehnquist
-Burger’s view
-Age
-Douglas MacArthur’s statement
-The President’s statement
-Burger
-Harry A. Blackmun
-Lewis F. Powell, Jr.
Congressional relations
-Age
-The President’s view
-Leslie C. Arends
-William B. Widnall
-The President’s view
-Age requirements
-Compared to the court system
-House of Representatives and Senate
-Retirement
-First-time campaigns
*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
-Republican National Committee [RNC] chairman
-George H. W. Bush
-Senate campaign committee
-William E. Brock III
-52-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
(rev. Oct.-07)
Conversation No. 35-51 (cont’d)
-House campaign committee
-Clarence J. “Bud” Brown, Jr,
-Clarence J. Brown
-Candidate recruitment
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
1973 Inauguration
-Inaugural procedures
-Oaths
-Burger’s conversation with Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
-The President's 1956 Vice Presidential Inauguration
-William Knowland
-Length
-The President’s compared to the Vice President
-SenatorsAlso recorded on January 2, 1973
- 829-024 8:56 AM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Warren E. Burger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:56 am to 9:03 am.
- 035-052 9:03 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:03 am and 10:15 am.
- 829-025 9:03 AM · 48 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:03 am and 9:28 am.
- 829-026 9:03 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:03 am and 9:28 am.
- 829-027 9:03 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:03 am and 9:28 am.
- 829-028 9:03 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:03 am and 9:28 am.
- 829-029 9:03 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:03 am and 9:28 am.
- 829-030 9:03 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:03 am and 9:28 am.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 035-051, January 2, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/035-051 (accessed September 18, 2026).