← 038-136038-138 →

Conversation 038-137

TapeTape 38StartWednesday, April 25, 1973 at 8:56 AMEndWednesday, April 25, 1973 at 9:01 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Petersen, Henry E.;  Bull, Stephen B.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On April 25, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry E. Petersen, and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 8:56 am to 9:01 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-137 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 38-137

Date: April 25, 1973
Time: 8:56 am - 9:01 am
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry E. Petersen.

[See also Conversation No. 904-6A]

     President’s schedule
           -Petersen’s schedule
                                               -77-

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. January-2011)

                                                               Conversation No. 38-137 (cont’d)

                    -Meeting
                         -Oval Office

President conferred with Stephen B. Bull at an unknown time.

[Begin conferral]

[See Conversation No. 904-6]

[End conferral]

     President’s schedule
           -Meeting with Petersen
                 -Entrance

     Watergate
          -Grand jury leaks
               -Lie detector tests for prosecutors
                     -J. Edgar Hoover
               -Henry S. Reuss
               -Jack Anderson
               -Peter Wolf
               -Roy H. Sheppard
                     -Alexandria, Virginia

     Jeb Stuart Magruder
           -Ronald L. Zeigler
           -Resignation to Secretary of Commerce
           -John W. Dean, III, H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Mr. President, Mr. Henry Peterson calling in now.
Yeah.
Hello.
Hello.
Mr. President, I just wanted to get your schedule at about 5.30.
Could be all right with you today?
Indeed so.
That'll get you time to finish up your work, and I'll finish mine.
And why don't you just drop over to that... Just let me see what they're having here in the...
Why don't you drop over, Henry, to the Oval Office.
You come in.
Where do you come in?
I come in the west gate there.
You can come in the west gate?
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
I just wanted to keep you off the line of fire.
I hate you people.
Fine.
Fine.
Another thing I wanted to ask you, just for my own guidance.
I noted something in the paper this morning about these continuing leaks, you know, which I know must distress you.
Yes, sir.
It's a rather major story.
And it occurred to me that the least you should do to make the record, I mean, you know, it's very easy to change the court reporters, but the least you should do is to take the three members of the prosecuting team and put them to a lie detector test.
Now, I do that with members of my staff, and I'm therefore directing you to do that to them.
All right?
Mr. Fresno, I'd like to talk to you more about that this evening.
Do you think you know who did it?
No, sir, but I'd like to talk to you more about that this evening before we get into that.
Well, the only problem I'm concerned about here is that the way the leaks are coming out, I mean, it gives the impression that we really aren't getting at it.
You see what I mean?
I just want you to understand.
I understand, but I think we ought to discuss that more.
All right.
I think there's terrible significance to that.
Yeah, you're afraid to do that then, huh?
i'm reluctant i think we ought to well the only thing is i remember okay you know our mutual friend edgar put his people to one well you know that that uh that was pretty rough huh they've changed considerably they have an altogether different policy yeah well i don't want to embarrass anybody except that i just want henry you know with rice and all these other people jumping on i just don't want the feeling that uh that you as a director of this thing i want you to be
to you on the extra mile, you know, on stopping, because it seems to be coming out all over the place, doesn't it?
It does indeed.
You know, I don't ask you what goes on, but I can read it.
Well, that's right.
That's terrible.
You know, I learn more out of the newspapers or something.
That's right.
One other thing I do need to know.
If I, without getting into what is it, I understand you had, it's reported you had Wolf and you had the name of the individual.
Is he a member of the White House staff?
So I need to know.
No, sir, he is not.
He's an individual named Shepard.
As I heard, that was the first thing I asked.
But he's reputed from Alexandria, Virginia.
who we think has a reputation as a con man.
He's coming into grand jury tomorrow.
Shepard, Shepard.
Well, if you were to come, I'd have to ask what the last word was.
I'd have to fire him.
Yes, sir.
Now, another point I need to know, too, because I said we've got a question this yesterday.
With regard to McGruder, as you know, we still don't have him.
We still have him unemployed.
You know what I mean?
Oh, uh, is this, uh, can you...
I'm not sure up to date on that, Mr. President.
His resignation was accepted by the Secretary of Commerce.
Oh, he's resigned?
To take effect on Friday.
Friday of this week?
Yes, sir.
Oh, okay.
I'm publicly known, but you recall I told you he offered his resignation.
Yeah, yeah, and I remember you said that we didn't want to... All right, I will not tell anybody, but, uh, or if Siggler's asked that, what do you want him to say?
Uh, I'd just refer him to the Secretary of Commerce.
Mm-hmm.
Then what do you want Secretary of Commerce to call Ziegler and ask him what to say?
In other words, do you want it to be put out?
Secretary of Commerce should simply say that Mr. Magruder offered his resignation and I accepted it.
In other words, it's no problem to you to have it known that Magruder has accepted, has resigned?
Not in the context that Magruder offered his resignation, no.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
OK. You see, what I'm getting at here is that I just had said I'd better be sure that if he's asked that, he wants to know whether or not.
See, we're taking the line on Dean, for example, as well as that
We're treating them all the same.
Nobody's off.
So with McGruder, I figure we can't do that.
Well, I think, you know, the basic difference, of course, is that McGruder offered his.
Yeah.
I don't know that the others did or did not, but McGruder offered his, and the secretary accepted it.
Yeah, yeah.
I get your point.
I get your point.
And as far as Dean is concerned, nothing new on that.
Well, we'll talk at 530 about that.
Yes, sir.
Bye.
Thank you.
Very good.
Thank you.
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