Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 348 › Conversation 348-006
Nixon, Colson & Rizzo on Frank Sinatra and Italian-American Relations
Wednesday, July 19, 1972 · 2:00 PM–2:25 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 13 min
AI Summary
President Nixon held consultations with Philadelphia Mayor Frank Rizzo, Charles Colson, and Alexander Haig to discuss political strategy and upcoming events. Nixon praised Rizzo’s recent public performance and sought his counsel regarding the political risks of involving Frank Sinatra in an upcoming state event for the Italian Prime Minister. The participants evaluated the potential fallout regarding Sinatra’s rumored associations and considered the optics of his inclusion in a high-profile Kennedy Center performance.
- Frank Rizzo
- Frank Sinatra
- Italian-American Relations
- Political Strategy
- Public Relations
- Charles Colson
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 3 minutes of this recording (about 28% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.
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Hello?
Hello?
Hello?
Well, I just wanted to thank you for that really marvelous statement you made yesterday.
By golly, you're really a nut-cutter.
Well, actually, that was really great.
I was so pleased.
We were just talking this morning with Chuck Colson and some of the other fellows, and they were all ecstatic.
They said, boy, that Rizzo knows how to fight.
Yes.
Yeah, I was going to ask you.
I hope you're not getting too many brick bats.
Yeah, yeah.
No, of course.
Oh, sure, you're going to catch that shaft, your friend's shaft, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, boy.
Well, I'll tell early when we get at that.
We won't let him do that.
Well, I'll tell you all about it.
You've got our boss.
So what's this?
Yeah, 150.
Yeah, well, that's right.
Sure, sure.
Well, I'll tell you a great, but another thing that's really great is that it's, you know, helped nationally.
The fact that you're the mayor of a third-largest city, and that bill is ringing out across the country, and that's the fourth-largest city in history.
But that really has an effect, and also has a great effect on the Italian, you know.
And we, you know,
I'm just very grateful I want you to know that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
You already have operating engineers, right?
And a very strong mess.
Are they really?
In the Philadelphia area?
Correct?
Well, they're strong men.
I've seen one on big cranes and the rest.
A lot of them are Seabees, remember?
I knew the Seabees, and as I served with the Navy unit in the South End of the Pacific and Solomon Islands, and I knew a lot of Seabees, and a lot of them are operating engineering members.
That way, yeah.
Great.
Yeah.
That's enough.
That's all we need.
Right.
Great.
Great.
Great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right, incidentally, that's right, and that's why I think the way you played it is so you get a second flight of the Apple was great.
Let me tell you that you may not have thought that we do these things here.
Did you know you were on all three networks last night?
Yes, sir, sir, so would I.
Can I, yeah, can I ask your advice about something?
I'll tell you two, one thing.
Cardinal Crowe has agreed to give the benediction that I think the 9th of December
You know, that's a very important one, and I thought that was a good thing, don't you think so?
In Miami, right?
He has already, he's gotten approval, and he's come to it, so I was pleased.
The second thing is something I just want to ask you about for private.
There's a new Italian prime minister.
He's a, he is fortunate, he's a patriotic good friend of ours.
He's a centrist rather than on the left, like some of them have been.
And we're trying to build a hub, and he wants to come over to see me.
As a matter of fact, he's a defendant on the floor of the Italian Senate.
So I'm going to do it.
He will be coming here either in August or September.
I mean, middle of August or middle of September, depending upon when it all works out.
When he comes, I'm going to have a dinner.
And also, I'm probably going to have a sort of a
After dinner, around 10 o'clock, over at the Kennedy Center, the fair, where we'll have a basically big musical thing, you know, in honor of him, where we can invite lots of people.
Now, naturally, I want to have major Italian leaders around the country.
I'd actually like to have you come and give us a lift.
Now, here's the point I want to ask you about, and I ask you about it as a friend and as a law enforcement man.
Frank Sinatra has been a great friend of Agnew's, and he's also been supportive greatly.
And he's been, frankly, in a personal way, coming to me, and you know, he was just before Congressional Committee yesterday, and apparently he will handle himself extremely well, and so forth and so on.
The question I ask is this.
How would law enforcement people feel?
He is the best man
But I think he's the best man, really, to do the program because, you know, he's a big, he's a planner, he's a big name.
He started a long course of people that condemned you of having schnauzer or not what you do.
He said, all right.
Yeah.
All right.
He just took...
He took that, but then as far as you're concerned, if I ask him, and I've got a couple, it's okay if we have some, you don't think that, don't most of them feel that this mafia business is just one of those guiltless association things?
That's what I thought.
And he's very popular, too, isn't he, with the community?
All right, well.
All right.
Well, I think we'll go.
I just want to know, I don't know whether he can come or schedule, but I didn't want to ask him if he had any doubts about it, so we'll have his time.
All right.
Great.
Well, it's sure good to talk to you.
And incidentally, now, on that money thing, whenever you have a, you think the state, the site in Austinville, you've got to hold her up as hell, huh?
Okay.
Thanks a lot.
Hello?
Yeah.
Hello?
Yeah.
Oh, I see.
Well, I don't know.
No, I'll see him when he gets in.
I don't know.
You know how it is.
Looking back over these meetings, you can get encouraged about each other.
Well, they blink.
They blink and howl a lot.
But a lot together.
They discuss something.
That means only another.
Yeah.
That's fine.
Well, actually, they've got a hell of a tough decision right now.
Right.
Well, you, I'll hold the time.
You let me in just so I know the arrival time.
I'll be waiting.
I'll see you here.
Maybe you'll meet me.
All right.
Could you give me Mr. Franks and Dr. Lucia for a period of time, please?
He was all over having it.
Yes, sir.
He was all over having it.
No dresses, ma'am.
Yeah, thank you.
Aren't you?
Very expensive.
No.
No.
Well, it's pretty.
Thank you.
It's better than that, Mr. Wilson.
I didn't even notice it.
That's bad, too.
I've missed lots of times.
What Bowlby said.
What Bowlby says about it is that it's something very, uh, it's the, it's the epitome of success
He made it.
He made it.
And he made it not only in entertainment, but he made it in business.
That's what's going on.
Hello?
Great.
Well, if you get the number where he is, I'll talk to him.
If not, I'll call his secretary.
Yeah, we'll see if he can be reached at a number, and I'll call his man.
In this case, better to go to him.
He's around the corner.
Oh, is he?
He was there right after the hearing.
That's a good way that Thomas knows the best, because I'm sure he is.
He had, he feels pretty down.
I talked to him, and I was in a plane, and the vice president said, yes, this one's true.
I'm like, oh, jeez, if you're a co-op, you'd be the greatest in the L.A., you know.
I didn't do that for people.
I said, how many could I do?
What's the matter with this little box, you know, the deal box?
He is part of himself.
The way he does it, he's part of himself.
He's present in his meetings.
When he gets drunk, he's over it.
He's present.
You're smart, though.
You're going to be excellent.
You're sober.
You're human.
You're important.
You're wonderful.
You have an excellent memory.
NARA Description
On July 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, Frank L. Rizzo, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., White House operator, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:00 pm to 2:25 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 348-006 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 348-6
Date: July 19, 1972
Time: 2:00 pm - 2:25 pm
Location: Executive Office Building
The President met with Charles W. Colson.
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 13s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
*****************************************************************
The President talked with Frank L. Rizzo between 2:04 pm and 2:09 pm.
[Conversation No. 348-6A]
[See Conversation No. 27-6]
[End of telephone conversation]
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 14s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
*****************************************************************
Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked with the President between 2:10 pm and 2:12 pm.
[Conversation No. 348-6B]
[See Conversation No. 27-7]
[End of telephone conversation]
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 30s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
*****************************************************************
The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time before 2:14 pm.
[Conversation No. 348-6C]
[See Conversation No. 27-8]
[End of telephone conversation]
Francis A. (“Frank”) Sinatra
-The President's forthcoming call
-Appearance before congressional committee
-Performance
-Press
-Rizzo's opinion
-John A. Volpe
An unknown woman entered at an unknown time after 2:12 pm.
Dress
The unknown woman left at an unknown time before 2:14 pm.
Colson's wife
Sinatra
-Volpe's opinion
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 10s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
*****************************************************************
The White House operator talked with the President at 2:14 pm.
[Conversation No. 348-6D]
[See Conversation No. 27-9]
[End of telephone conversation]
The President's forthcoming call to Sinatra
-Sinatra's testimony before congressional committee
-Sinatra’s location
-Monte Carlo
-Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 5m 13s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
*****************************************************************
[Thomas] Hale Boggs
-Partisanship
-Drinking
-Intelligence
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 27s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
*****************************************************************
Colson left at 2:25 pm.Also recorded on July 19, 1972
- 747-015 1:51 PM · 10 sec — Stephen B. Bull and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 1:51 pm on July 19, 1972 and 9:33 am on July 29, 1972.
- 348-001 1:53 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:53 pm and 1:57 pm.
- 348-002 1:57 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 1:57 pm.
- 348-003 1:57 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:57 pm and 2:00 pm.
- 348-004 1:57 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:57 pm and 2:00 pm.
- 348-005 1:57 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:57 pm and 2:00 pm.
- 027-005 2:02 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 2:02 pm.
- 027-006 2:02 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Frank L. Rizzo talked on the telephone from 2:02 pm to 2:09 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 348-006, July 19, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/348-006 (accessed September 20, 2026).