Conversation 663-008

TapeTape 663StartTuesday, February 1, 1972 at 5:36 PMEndTuesday, February 1, 1972 at 6:26 PMTape start time02:58:28Tape end time03:47:03ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Recording deviceOval Office

On February 1, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:36 pm to 6:26 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 663-008 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 663-008

Date: February 1, 1972
Time: 5:36 pm - 6:25 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     Governors’ dinner

            -Harry S. Dent memorandum
            -Benefits
            -Support for President
            -Speech schedule
                  -President’s view
                        -Drawbacks
                        -Bryce N. Harlow [?], John N. Mitchell
                        -Agenda
                              -Long hours
            -Previous meeting
                  -Usefulness
                        -Red Room
            -California Republicans
                  -Ronald W. Reagan
                        -Interests
                              -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [UUSR]
                              -People’s Republic of China [PRC]

     PRC trip
          -George Washington
          -Gifts
                 -Types
                       -Comparisons
                 -USSR
                 -John B. Connally
                       -Symbolism
                 -Gold
                       -Expense
                             -Benefits
                             -US mint
                 -Duplication in bronze
                 -Reciprocal dinner
                 -Chou En-lai
                 -Mao Tse-tung

     Connally
         -Michael J. Mansfield
              -Breakfast
                    -Timing

            -Trip to Florida
                  -Timing
                        -Lincoln Birthday
                  -George [A. Smathers?]
            -Trade
                  -Public relations
                        -Peter G. Peterson

     Peter M. Flanigan
           -Possible meeting

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 02/27/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[663-008-w002]
[Duration: 5m 17s]

       Domestic politics
             -National Broadcasting Corporation [NBC] program
                      -Coverage of Democratic Party
                              -Tone of coverage
                              -Balanced nature of coverage
                      -David Brinkley interview with Patrick A. McCarran
                              -Edmund S. Muskie
                              -Nature of program
                              -President’s view
             -Charles W. Colson’s view
                      -News coverage of President
                      -Potential meetings between President and cabinet undersecretaries
                      -Held at White House
                      -John B. Connally’s concern with unknown person
                              -Catholic faith
                              -Involvement in church
                      -Potential meetings between President and cabinet undersecretaries
                              -Timing
             -Donald H. Rumsfeld

                      -Theory
               -Cabinet undersecretaries
                      -Reasons for dissatisfaction
                             -Lack of state dinner invitations
               -Republican congressmen
                      -Wives
               -Arrangements for meetings at White House
                      -President’s view
                             -Breakfasts
                      -Timing of meetings
                             -Later in 1972
                      -John N. Mitchell[?]
                             -Handling
                      -Christmas parties
                             -President’s opinion

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     White House staff and cabinet
          -Briefings
                -John D. Ehrlichman
          -Henry A. Kissinger role
                -Previous conversation with Ehrlichman
          -Governors meetings
                -Value
                -Connally
                -Cabinet members
                      -[Thomas] Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt
                -Congress
                      -Feeling of responsibility
                            -Effect on their job
                                  -Request for balance
          -Need for toughness
          -Current situation
          -Performances of President’s advisors
                -Haldeman’s view of situation
          -Kissinger
          -Flanigan

            -Peterson
                  -Testimony
            -William P. Rogers
            -Kissinger
                  -Demeanor
                        -Attitude towards Rogers [?]
            -President’s demeanor
                  -Handling of complaints of White House staff
                  -John A. Volpe
            -Morale
                  -Dwight D. Eisenhower view
                        -Comparisons of administrations
                              -Rose Mary Woods
                  -Shortcomings of administration
                  -Connally
                        -Chicago
                  -Kissinger
                  -Rogers
                        -Cambodia

     President’s schedule
           -Governor’s dinner
           -Breakfast meeting
                -Timing

     White House staff and cabinet
          -President’s instructions
               -Haldeman’s upcoming conversation with Connally
          -Charles W. Colson
          -Congress
          -Rogers
               -State Department
          -Peterson
               -Trade memorandum
               -Middle East, West Germany
               -Possible handling
                     -Instructions about the future, public relations

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 02/27/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[663-008-w003]
[Duration: 5m 22s]

       Domestic politics
             -California politics
                      -Robert H. Finch
                              -Los Angeles Times article
                                      -Return to California
                                      -Possible run for Congress
                                      -Possible work for law firm
                                      -Possible run for Senate
                      -California congressional delegation
                      -President’s re-election
                      -Robert H. Finch
                              -Possible decision against run for Senate

       Congress
             -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman’s opinion
             -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
                     -Congressman
             -President’s cabinet
                     -Secretaries
                     -Timing
                             -President’s second term
                     -Possible replacement of Cabinet officials
                     -Nominating individuals approved by President
                     -Individuals on board with President’s agenda
                             -Treatment of individuals
                     -Sherman Adams
                     -Loyalty of individuals to President

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     White House staff and cabinet
          -Connally

     Post-election personnel changes
          -Anti-trust Division of Department of Justice [DOJ]
                 -University of Michigan professor
                       -Frederic V. Malek
                 -Ehrlichman
                 -Cabinet
                       -Resignations
                       -Elliot L. Richardson
                       -Connally
                       -James D. Hodgson
                       -Volpe
                       -George W. Romney
                       -Earl L. Butz
                              -Clifford M. Hardin
                       -Peterson
                       -Rogers
                       -Melvin R. Laird
                       -Connally
                       -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
                       -Richard G. Kleindienst
                       -George P. Shultz
                       -Donald H. Rumsfeld
                       -Unknown person
                 -Agency heads
                       -Russell E. Train

     The President’s schedule
          -Governors

     White House staff and cabinet
          -Clark MacGregor
          -Press conference
          -Volpe
          -Peterson

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 02/27/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Political Returnable]
[663-008-w005]
[Duration: 1m 19s]

       1972 Republican National Convention
             -California
                     -Honorary delegation
                            -President’s opinion
                                   -Blacks
                                   -Youth
                                   -Compared to other delegations
                                   -Age of participants
             -Luncheon
             -Honorary delegation
                     -Caucuses
                     -Presence on convention floor
             -Hotels
             -Golf
             -Drinking

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******************************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 02/27/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[663-008-w004]
[Duration: 1m 15s]

       President’s conversation with John B. Connally
              -Democratic Party

                       -Contest for nomination
                       -Composition of 1972 convention
                       -Compared to 1968 convention
                              -Description of people in delegation
                                      -President’s opinion
                                      -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman’s opinion
                       -Edmund S. Muskie presidential candidacy
                              -Likelihood of success
                              -Potential strategy to obtain Democratic Party nomination

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Haldeman and the President left at 6:25 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Thank you.
This is just reporting what Ben got back from that.
That's what those four governors talked about.
Now, it's been set up.
They understand the other way.
That's why the race is, you know, making the point that, you know, they will have a new government.
I don't think that's what they're going to be trusting for.
It's going to be a great and vulnerable, I mean, present policy that I'm not going to know.
I think you should report it.
You can report it because I think you're probably going to get the government some of the problems that we just are going to get.
What do you think?
I mean, I think we don't know.
I mean, we just got to, I mean, we don't know.
I mean, you know, I think this is the state that's going to cover us.
I mean, it was.
I mean, they're marching around here and everything, you know, and I, uh, I, uh, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
We're going to be eating a lot more of these people.
It's like it's the wrong thing to do at this point.
They all go out and quote me every week.
That's not what they're asking.
They want to raise them up.
No, I don't think they want to raise them up.
Of course, they're all very strongly on board.
They want to help.
But I didn't see the way you can't do it.
In other hand, I had 20 of them.
If you had 20 of them, that would go midnight.
You've got to have a long bed as well.
I don't think you can.
And it was purposely set up.
It was understood to be set up.
But it was not that way.
Well, I suppose they do that a little bit.
Then you go off and do the air.
Well, I'm not going to go with me.
I don't think they're going to get themselves involved on a whole session.
No, I think they're just going to be able to have a whole session.
It's set up that we're not going to have a whole session.
In other words, we're just going to have a whole session.
Sure.
I don't know.
I think people are going to be able to do that.
People are going to be able to take the time to call and ask questions.
We had one where we sent everybody in a circle in the red room or something, I can't remember, and their wives went upstairs for a couple hours, and it was absolutely useless.
Thank you.
You know, he was really good for so many years.
Huh?
For so many years.
You know what I mean?
But I don't know what that has to do with it.
I mean, he was a great guy.
But he never got to live by anyone.
I don't know whether it's a good idea or not.
I don't know.
So he's doing it.
Here are your questions.
.
. .
But, you know, a long way to go to the Chinese and to the Russians as well.
In fact, the first six presidents used that example when it was dropped.
But, you know, John Thomas, when he walked, he didn't even think about the gold.
He used the French and the American gold.
I don't know.
Sorry, but, I mean, that would be quite a plan.
Really?
My God, gold would be expensive as hell, wouldn't it?
Well, it's not.
Well, it's a little less of a loss.
I mean, it's expensive.
I mean, how do you do it again?
I would think it'd be something in gold that would be a very, you know, a really good kind of gift.
I wonder if it would make the sun up in France to give to lesser people, too.
Maybe it's a dinner that you do, or a little bit of a dinner that you give.
They've already got to die, so you give one of these to each person, and then throw them on the road, and you throw them on the road.
Not tomorrow.
I told him I don't want to run it forward again.
He tells me to go down today.
Over.
I know, but I've already...
Now, I don't know if that's very well understood.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
He mentioned another program.
He said that he used the demographic data to call the way a lot of people use it.
And you see a person probably not associated with the data.
I think he's probably right.
I think he's totally not brave.
And we can conclude that it's a visual of what we had before, even though, you know, I mean, it's virtually, virtually not.
I mean, it was, you know, during our old time and stuff.
That, uh, common sense of something, kind of the way we were old and stuff.
You know, it is.
It's a lot more.
I wonder if that's what he did.
He really did.
He really was trying to do something.
He was trying to do something.
He was trying to do something.
Now, I don't have those things in center.
I've got them all.
But let's be clear again.
When we do have a hierarchy, I don't want to tell them when I have one.
Together, you know, I mean, in the government, I don't, I'm not, I mean, he was a man who was fairly in center about the start of the 80s.
Yeah.
And, uh, he had a hierarchy back then.
The other thing was, all those hierarchies have been done.
There isn't anybody in that system around here, Secretary Rice, that hasn't had to deal with either fighting or dealing with something else.
I don't think they're going to mention it.
They've all been here since June 3, 2017.
Yeah, but I can tell you that you're sorry.
Do you want to get to the first day to get to it, or the third?
I don't know.
I don't want to go over it.
You don't want to go over it.
You don't want to go over it.
You don't want to go over it.
You don't want to go over it.
You don't want to go over it.
You don't want to go over it.
And I said to him, you know, you can do all of them.
And I said to him, you know, you can do all of them.
And I said to him, you know, you can do all of them.
Maybe a week or a little later in the year.
The guy comes in with his wife.
Somebody who's got to do it for the rest of their life.
I don't know if he's going to come.
I don't know.
Well, he was a little young, and he had a little bit of a speciality in that.
He's a young man.
Of course, every picture comes to mind.
And the funny thing is, I don't hear anything good with you.
I don't hear a lot of things good with you.
What do you know?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
They wanted to come.
We had all over the boat when they wanted to do that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's going to be hard.
They're obviously going to be angry.
They haven't got anything to talk about.
They need, they need to be bored about it.
It's nice.
And I think if you were a brother, you'd welcome them too.
If you're not angry, you'd get out of the state council.
And when you're not, you know, you meet with other people, talk about, you know, finance, they always seem probably to be out of the way.
I don't know what that's about.
I don't know what the other people are.
We are curious.
Very curious.
The thing is, the thing is, perhaps, that we have to do a lot of work.
We have to do a lot of work.
members of the cabinet, or members of Congress, or that kind of others in the administration, who are greater than it is to be their responsibility.
How did you do that job?
And I'm very curious about their responsibility also to rather than to be waiting for therapy to figure what the hell they can do.
No problem at all.
We're probably the most efficient administration I've ever seen.
Now that may be our fault.
Mine, perhaps.
Because we have problems all the other way around.
But it is that they, perhaps, maybe don't want it.
But when you come running out and do it, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference whether it's a Congress or a Senate or a county office.
or a junior White House staff.
I mean, I'm not going to get into your .
But we have created the psychology of the law in my opinion.
The White House staff is much better than the White House staff even if you told them personally.
They also had a few men around them, training in the living.
You know what I mean?
Who didn't develop it.
It was their responsibility.
I didn't need them.
They were there just for that.
But they were really, really hard, tough fighters.
And they were there to plead and so forth and so on.
I don't know what part of the U.A.
is here, but they say they're going to be there.
I think it's both.
Well, it's more in how they've been treated than in the main effects, but I think it's both.
I got a lot of thoughts about you.
You started out, and you said it, so much to everybody.
You never get too long.
And you never, you know, you give them a chance to go down.
They go with it.
That's the thing that frustrates me.
You know, you go back.
You go back.
I'm going to sit here and talk to all that crap.
I can get your ass out of here and get that work out of the door.
You know, one day before I'm going to buy the box.
I couldn't comment.
It would be a swell to run out and say, if I die, you know, well, I better do it.
And then we, and then I, we don't, we don't have much of that anymore.
Now, anyway, that's where I work.
I'm done now.
I'm occurring to my positive side.
I'm getting to the positive side of a group who really feel that, uh,
But see, part of it is, you're so nice when people come in to complain, or when they come in to say, and a couple, one guy like that, and a guy like that, will decide to be afraid to come in and say, because they know you did this to them, and part of it is, but then you don't know if you're coming in the other way.
And it's also the time.
Thank you.
Well, we did it.
We did it the way that we came here.
We got to realize that.
We got to realize that we went in high spirits.
We got to think about it.
We got to think about it.
We got to think about it.
We got to think about it.
I never asked.
Never.
And on his second visit, he had a question that he needed to be dealt with.
He was a little bit, I mean, away from it.
And he was on his way up there.
He was on his way up there.
We don't have that problem.
We don't have that problem.
We don't have that problem.
From my common view is that we are a party of faith, faith in God, faith in God, faith in God, faith in God, faith in God, faith in God, faith in God, faith in God, faith in God, faith in God.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
but he's probably got to do it, or he's got to stay in there, and then he's got to go for it.
And as a matter of fact, I think that if that's the case, we need to have an offer up here.
I don't know if there's one case you're saying we're not believing, but there are a lot of cases that they should have done, too.
That's right.
And he did it.
He got, well, basically the face of the problem.
I mean, we do, they don't, because I didn't know.
I don't know if there's any other people in the L.A.
Jail.
Thank you for having me.
Let's face it.
Let's face it.
I'm very nervous.
You know, I'm very depressed.
Who the hell was that?
It wasn't me.
I'm not in control.
You don't remember that.
This is the last time.
Don't worry about it.
Lord God, let it be.
They all had to die.
Well, I mean...
I'm just wondering if there is, you know, in those, you really need to know too long, right?
Some of those other programs, if you've met parents and friends in the city, when they're tired, they're tired of me.
And then, when you're going to have a workshop, you know, you break some goddamn thing or two off, and you've got to break that.
There's no way they can't.
It's 9 o'clock.
I know we have lunch together tonight.
We come to the same place for dinner, but I'm trying to get to breakfast this morning.
I need to cover a lot of ground this afternoon.
i don't think those are the three areas
Thank you.
And, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh,
Well, first of all, he didn't think about that.
He wrote about it on the ground.
The second part is, he didn't think about it at all until he sent her.
Because he was going to go out on a stand.
He was going to go out on a stand.
He said, I'm going to call the crew.
And that's what they did.
And I hear some very deep thoughts.
But sometimes, you don't get it.
You don't.
I waited over 15 years to get everybody to come out.
But that's over.
It takes a lot of time.
But all you see are ideas and all that stuff.
But you go out and you stop.
That's all you can say.
That's all you can say.
He mentioned to us yesterday and yesterday, because he's a big artist, that he is coming back to California.
Well, he did not come to Congress.
Well, he didn't say he's going to come Thursday, whether or not he'll run for Congress.
But if he does run for Congress, he will be coming back anyway, for the aid of the law firm.
And you know, Bob, you put all these kids out on the table, because they're all out there standing around the table.
You know what it is that's been going on?
I heard y'all all around.
I'm sorry, everybody's got to listen to what I'm saying here.
That's what they call it.
Yeah.
I think it's a combination of a whole bunch of different people.
You have three years before.
I don't think there's any time to think about it.
I don't think there's any time to think about it.
I think it's time to think about it.
I think it's time to think about it.
You're going to do the trying hard.
You're going to do it all the time.
You're going to do it.
I don't think you can change that.
I don't think it's the same way.
I don't know.
Yes, there might be, if you hold some of the young congressmen in.
He said, look, you guys, you're the mission team.
I don't want anything back out of you.
It's a great day to come talk.
You like counting on two?
Keep it up.
Fight.
We're going to be watching you.
You're going to move.
You're going to keep coming back.
That would be great.
Well, I can't do it then.
You can do it again in a second.
I'm not so sure you can.
I think you can do it in a team.
You can do it in a building.
You can do it in a team.
There you go.
I can't do it.
I think the thing to do is to get together and do what we want in there.
And, uh, the other thing is you've got to stop dreaming.
I've had guys that have done that to me.
That didn't come as we planned.
We put our dreams on for a while.
And, I mean, you can make the next gesture, and the focus can be gained by that, but that's just the people that came to us out in front of us.
And when they called, you know, Dr. Ryan and myself to say, I'm not going to do this, but you have to think.
It's been going on for the last year, apparently.
And I'm sure what I'm going to do is build that thing for a few people right now.
You know what I'm saying?
And I think that's what I believe.
I've got to be cool with this thing and that's kind of stuff that, you know, why are you doing this?
You know, are you living with it?
Are you interested in selling it?
That's all you need to come up with.
And if you're going to be living with it, you're going to work with it for the rest of your life.
And I said, I'm sorry I didn't hear that.
Thank you, Carlotta.
I'm a wild man.
And I had a friend who said, if you want to do what Carlotta wants to do, what do you think I'm going to tell that kid?
And that's depressing.
You have to play the role that I did, too, by the way.
I've been keeping you from doing that for a long time.
Well, I think your role is what he's going to do.
If you didn't do anything, I understand.
You know, I'm hoping to do this for you.
I think we can certainly do it all while we're here.
You don't have to have, you know, you don't have to have, you know, and, you know, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't do it.
Thank you.
I don't mind horror, but they're taking me to the University of Maine, they're coming here for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the,
I guess, you know, right down the line.
My name is .
Right.
Yeah.
But I didn't feel like .
Did I?
And then he decided after saying it, he wanted to keep them.
They really aren't.
They're pretty good.
They're pretty good.
All right?
The rural area, I would kick someone out if we could find someone better.
But I would say, all right, I'll invite him.
And once I leave, he might want to come and see me for a while longer.
Well, I wouldn't even think about it.
If the guy's invited, he can't put his work on.
He's going to be invited.
But let me make this a problem.
I'm going to make this a problem.
I'm going to move him over there.
I'm sure you don't want to keep both.
You don't want to keep both.
You don't want to keep both.
If you want to keep going, if you want to keep going, if you want to keep going, if you want to keep going, if you want to keep going, if you want to keep going, if you want to keep going, if you want to keep going, if you want to keep going, if you want to keep going,
If you do want to use wine burgers, I'm like, yeah.
If you want to use wine burgers, I'm like, yeah.
Maybe myself.
I don't think so.
I don't think Robbie's got it.
I'm here to give you some stuff to have.
I'm trying to give you some stuff to have, too.
I don't know.
I don't know.
And I love you.
I love you.
And I put it in.
I put it in.
And you just never got to get your dream in.
But, uh, you know what I mean?
It's, uh... We've heard it all through.
We've heard it all over.
But they got angry.
And the only reason why they got out is because they were running for it.
A lot of these gentlemen, when you're trying to protect you and your family, you have to be able to see them.
You have to talk to them like gentlemen.
They're gentlemen.
They're gentlemen.
They are gentlemen.
You can't do this to yourself.
You can't do this to yourself.
You can't do this to yourself.
You can't do this to yourself.
I don't know.
So, to be prepared, we'll be prepared for this, because no one knows what you're going to lose so much, so they've got to make their plans in terms of what we might lose.
And they'd be out.
So, if we win, they're going to be out.
That's what I'm trying to say.
And they're all going to be winning.
So, we're going to go around.
There you go.
I don't know what the hell was up there.
I don't know what the hell was up there.
I don't know what the hell was up there.
I don't know what the hell was up there.
I don't know what the hell was up there.
Thank you.
What we've got, we've got the heavens, we've got the earth, we've got the earth, we've got the earth, we've got the earth, we've got the earth, we've got the earth, we've got the earth, we've got the earth,
Thank you.
Thank you.
Right?
Yeah.
We believe so much in God.
We believe in God.
We believe in God.
We believe in God.
We believe in God.
Well, that's not the case.
Go on, don't get me wrong.
There should be a reason to help.
I don't think we're strong in the period that he's in.
He's a hero of the day, Johnny.
The Democrats can resolve their interests, and so they should.
I mean, it's true.
But he said that it's just the makeup of the convention.
He said he just didn't realize what a pair of people they have.
Must be in a good way with it, right?
Well, he said he does, certainly.
Maybe he'll be in a good way with it.
It's hard to see how big he is.
I'm sure he's got a way with it.
He's got a way with it.
He's got a way with it.