Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 797 › Conversation 797-014

Nixon, Ruth & Branca on Baseball and Bobby Thomson

Friday, October 13, 1972 · 12:22 PM–12:40 PM ET · Oval Office · 17 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ruth, Claire (Hodgson); Thompson, Bobby; Branca, Ralph; Cashen, Henry C., II; White House photographer; O'Donnell, Harry; O'Donnell, Harry (Mrs.); Butrico, TonyConversation797-014 on Tape 797StartFriday, October 13, 1972 at 12:22 PMEndFriday, October 13, 1972 at 12:40 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 797-014 ↗

President Nixon hosted a meeting with baseball figures including Claire Ruth, Bobby Thomson, and Ralph Branca to discuss the history and cultural significance of baseball. The conversation focused on iconic moments like Thomson's 1951 home run and Babe Ruth's legendary "called shot" during the 1932 World Series. Nixon used the occasion to reflect on the role of sports in promoting patriotism and unity, and he presented his guests with gifts bearing the presidential seal.

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Hello there, how are you?
Nice to see you again.
No, no, no, no.
Hi, how are you?
Good to see you.
You know one thing, I can show you my memories.
I personally remember the whole run.
But I forget.
Thank you very much.
You don't lie.
You don't lie.
Got it.
That's true.
The home run better by the home run.
All right.
All right.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Thank you.
That's right.
Together?
All right.
That we can't lose.
Here we go.
Here we go.
uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh...
I do both.
I just had a chance.
This office is going to go out.
Just think, the doctors are down in L.A.
They're still working.
But not like it was in the old days.
In the old days, it was not like it was in the old days.
The senators?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I have never, I never saw him play.
But he was a great one.
He was a good one.
Is that right?
Well, I find, you know, an interesting thing.
One thing about people in sports is that, sure, they don't fight on the field, but off the field, we can be very proud of people in sports.
You know, I see these marvelous ads for the baseball players who are volunteering on drugs and the rest of it.
And, you know, I mean, they're great people.
month on some time.
But on the other hand, they are, by giving that autograph, that shows you they're decent people.
That's why I ask you, and I think you'll sell them on the fly, anybody who's in sports, competitive sports, who is the real favorite.
Interesting thing.
You notice that?
The guys in sports, right?
They're one of the...
This is my speech to kids.
About sports.
To cooperate with one another.
It doesn't matter.
You can't play with this black and white.
You can play a player.
And that's today.
It wasn't until 47 when Jackie came up, which is 25 years ago.
He came up 25 years ago.
But, you know, the things on the field, it's going on the field.
Like I said, with Joe McCarthy, you know.
Uh...
He was here the other day.
He came in here.
He was in too.
Let me tell you honestly, you'd think I was a great athlete, but I never made any team.
But as far as baseball is concerned,
No, I couldn't feel very good.
I couldn't see it very well.
But I admire you.
I don't need glasses.
I just couldn't see them.
They're too fast.
I didn't see that one through.
Tell me, was it a high vessel?
Yes, a high inside.
I was wasted.
He's too stupid to take it back.
Which strike was it?
I agree.
Well, now we want you to have a little moment.
These are the presidential couplers.
The seal is on that white card.
Here it is.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Now, all the different golfers...
This is the president...
Okay.
How's that?
Probably not.
Hey, uh, a post office.
Just use the holes in the water.
I heard you guys got a hole in the water.
Is that the hole?
Yes, sir.
Or I think the water is the president.
It is the water green.
You know what I'm thinking about?
Yeah.
If I ever see the dog, too.
Yeah!
Where do you post it?
Oh, I don't really.
I don't.
But you live in New York, too?
New York City?
I still have the same apartment.
It's half-harvest.
You have all the memories you have, too.
And I have to think technically, too.
And you guys went four years ago.
He won a game in 1933.
I lost it up.
I lost it.
He did?
He won a game.
He won a game.
So he was the R-1.
You were the R-1.
I was the R-1.
Now, the reason I know this is a tricky question.
How many pitches, or who of the four youngest pitchers to win 20 more games?
And the question when I asked it, they really said, well, you've got to be one of them.
Mark Feller, Christy Maddison, Dave Rube.
See your figure?
I'm going to get three more pens in the corner.
He said, that's the question.
He can't hear, and I can do it.
I think, though, the greatest play of all that he did, and I remember this was Charter Root, you know, was with the Cubs in L.A. That year in the World Series, you know, where they booed him and he really got a couple strikes.
Pointed at the bleachers.
And whap!
Everybody remembers that.
Did that happen?
Did he do it?
He pointed it out there.
The paper said it.
He pointed it out there.
True, it's true, it's true.
Oh, God.
The preacher said that we agreed.
Oh, my God.
Yeah, there was
Yeah, I must say, you're right.
God was with us.
I must say, maybe even some of the rest of us, but we got hit like he did.
You've got to have a little of the call.
Yeah, and he loves everything.
He loves everything.
He loves everything.
He loves everything.
He loves everything.
He loves everything.
He loves everything.
You had road.
Road.
Road.
Road.
Road.
Road.
Road.
Road.
Road.
Road.
Road.
Road.
Well, we wish you the best.
Well, I just want you to know that you've got my support, and I'll do anything you ask of me.
Oh, thank you very much.
And my best to you is to make sure that you have the best of me.
I hope to see you again.
It's nice to see you again.
I see you looking so very well.
I saw you on television last night, and you looked wonderful.
Oh, yeah, we did.
I was just going to give you a shout-out.
I said, you know that television is great, because I've been on it a couple of times.
I've been on it for 30 years now.
They murdered me.
Good to see you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, you're welcome.
You must have learned from those kids.
I appreciate it.
I really appreciate it.
You know, both of you guys are really bigger.
I mean, you've met before, but I think you're coming at me like you realize.
Yeah, that's right.
You don't look.
Basically, you look bigger often.
Many baseball players look much bigger.
I mean, I've already used the knickers.
The rollback was big.
Now they say Larry Brown of the Washington Redskins, who weighs 210, is small.
Never mind.
Isn't that amazing?
Well, anyway, good luck in LA.
Bye.

On October 13, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Claire (Hodgson) Ruth, Bobby Thompson, Ralph Branca, Henry C. Cashen, II, White House photographer, Harry O'Donnell, Mrs. Patrick E. O'Donnell, and Tony Butrico met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:22 pm to 12:40 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 797-014 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 797-14

Date: October 13, 1972
Time: 12:22 pm - 12:40 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Claire (Hodgson) Ruth, Bobby Thomson, Ralph Branca, and Henry C.
Cashen, II. The White House photographer and members of the press were present at the
beginning of the meeting.

        Greetings
            -1954

        Thomson’s pennant-winning home run in 1951 New York Giants-Brooklyn Dodgers
        National League playoff game
            -The President’s reminiscence

        [Photograph session]
            -Baseball
                -Giants-Dodgers rivalry
                -Johnny Mize
                -Ty Cobb
                     -George H. (“Babe”) Ruth
            -The President's reminiscences
                -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
                     -Autographs

        Baseball
            -The President’s television [TV] viewing
            -The President’s letter from baseball fans
                 -Football
                     -TV
            -Los Angeles Dodgers
            -San Francisco Giants
            -Washington Senators
                 -Texas
            -Herb Taney [sp?]

Mr. and Mrs. Harry O'Donnell and Tony Butrico entered at 12:24 pm.

        Greetings
            -Harry O'Donnell

        [Photograph session]

        Baseball
            -Walter Johnson
            -Sports figures
                 -Off the field characteristics
                      -Drugs
                 -Patriotism
                      -The President’s view
                           -Sports as a metaphor for life
            -John Roosevelt (“Jackie”) Robinson
                 -1947
            -Joseph McCarthy
            -Mickey Lolich and Carl M. Yastrzemski
                 -Previous visit with the President
            -Vision
            -Thomson’s home run
                 -Strike count

        The President's athletic experience

        Gift presentation
             -Cuff links
                  -Presidential seal
             -Pin
                  -Presidential seal

    -Golf balls
        -Presidential seal
        -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew

Places of residence of Thompson, Branca, and Claire Ruth
    -New York
         -White Plains
         -Plainfield
         -Manhattan

Baseball
    -Home run record
         -Claire Ruth’s age
         -Death
             -“Babe” Ruth
         -Henry L. (“Hank”) Aaron
             -Age
             -At bats
    -“Babe” Ruth
             -As a pitcher
             -Boston Red Sox
             -Win-loss record
             -1933
             -Pat Summerall
    -Branca
    -Robert W. A. (“Bob”) Feller
    -Christy Mathewson
    -Babe Ruth
         -Aaron
    -1932 World Series
    -Charlie Root
         -Chicago Cubs
         -Los Angeles Angels
         -Ruth’s “called shot” home run
             -Veracity of story
                  -Norman Vincent Peale
    -1927 New York Yankees
    -Babe Ruth
    -Earle Combs
    -Lou Gehrig
    -Bob Meusel
    -Tony Lazzeri

              -“Murderers Row”

         Claire Ruth
             -Expression of support
                 -Mrs. Nixon
             -TV appearance

         Thompson and Branca
            -Size
                -Baseball players
                -Football players
                    -Larry Brown
                         -Washington Redskins
                             -Compared to past football players

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 14s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

*****************************************************************

Claire Ruth et al. left at 12:40 pm.
  • 797-010 11:43 AM · 58 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:43 am to 11:45 am.
  • 797-011 11:45 AM · 13 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, Charles W. Colson, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:45 am to 12:02 pm.
  • 797-012 12:02 PM · 18 min — President Richard M. Nixon, staff, and members of the executive board of the Utility Workers of America, including Donald F. Rodgers, Willie J. Usery, Jr., Harold T. Rigley, James Joy, Jr., Patrick Gallagher, C. J. Luciano, and Valentine Murphy, members of the press, and the White House photographer, met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:02 pm to 12:20 pm.
  • 797-013 12:22 PM · 46 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:22 pm.
  • 365-006 12:40 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:40 pm and 12:45 pm.
  • 797-015 12:40 PM · 43 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:40 pm and 12:45 pm.
  • 365-007 12:45 PM · 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:45 pm and 3:00 pm.
  • 797-016 12:45 PM · 25 sec — United States Secret Service agents and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:45 pm and 3:00 pm.

Conversation 797-014, October 13, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/797-014 (accessed October 10, 2026).