Conversation 817-004

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

No, we talked to him yesterday.

I talked to him directly.

As a matter of fact, he said he didn't want the job.

And we moved him back into this decision.

What he said, he was very, you know, very taken by what you said to him and so forth, and did say that he had indicated that he would take the job.

Following his meeting with you, they had reassessed that he and his wife meant they didn't want to move, live abroad.

And so we moved him.

So he was pleased.

It was just the way he wanted it.

Did you be sure that he did get out that he was offered?

Yes, as a matter of fact, what I said.

Did he try to ask him to undertake a foreign assignment?

I'm very, very grateful.

That's right.

Because that did get the story.

Well.

You've got most that I've read.

Yes, the quotes I read, the stories that I read, indicated that he intended to return to private life, but you asked him to remain on and take a high assignment in the international area, an important assignment in the international area, which he was considering to get a private office.

And then one of the guys in his office lobbed out that it was the chief of .

That's right, and that ran in the books.

That ran.

He was considering the chief of .

No, but that is not the way- That must be the times, because that's the only place that- And I talked to Hudson this morning, he seems to be in good shape.

He doesn't want the post.

Well, if you were back now, the post is open.

I'll talk to you about that later.

The other thing I was trying to get at.

Are you?

Do you know who put out that story about taxes?

No, I don't.

I'm gonna track that down as soon as I get a chance.

Well, there's only two people that were there.

Who were they?

Early on.

Schultz was dead at some time.

But my guess is that Schultz went back and talked to Walker, and Walker put it out.

All right, I'll trace it with those.

You read it down?

Yes, sir.

I don't know, it's, it's too late to talk about .

See, Rob, you know, he was a deal with the press.

You may not see it.

These people, these people, he don't understand why that is such a damaging story.

It's totally true.

It's damaging because it will force Mills now to move away from that position to prove that he isn't ready to sign the tax reform.

Now, our little boys around here don't seem to understand.

Well, we're going with Roger's shelter.

Well, that Irwin has been offered a high-investorial position.

And he has considered that.

He has considered that.

Is Rogers going to possibly come back with another, you know, with the idea of another post?

Probably not.

Yeah.

Probably not.

When I talk to myself and Johnson, what do we think about?

Johnson is staying, is a Foreign Service career, well,

He has to retire next year.

He can stay for a year and may want to stay in a second-level post.

But if he does, we've got to let him go.

I'm just going to say why.

Very curtly, but quite literally.

Alexis Alex Johnson, the support service officer, will be no doubt reassigned.

Well, I say that.

He is our senior foreign service man, and we will receive a very important assignment for a man who is, you know, experienced and capable of getting a person as high as their

The other point on this, sir, is what sort of signal do we want to send out here when I talk to you guys afterwards and so forth?

That's the real question.

How far do you want to go now in getting the State Department to shake that signal out?

I would think probably not very far.

We're just going to sneak these guys in.

All right.

That's what we're going to do.

Casey's going to go in there.

He's an economic man.

He's going to shake the hell out of them.

He's going to say, well, we're the State Department.

There's no exceptions.

The whole department's working.

review of all positions, of all the ambassadorial assignments, and all the top positions in the program.

There will be a number of other changes that will be announced.

I just want to let you know that there are reviews being made, a number of other changes, because this is a community with great experience to be retained, but can go to positions where they have a new challenge.

Get that line out.

I have said it several times.

I'd say that he's very good.

That's a good thing to say in a conversation for a certain length of time with President Mayfield.

He's very good.

Very good.

He can have a real approach to a job.

Because he constantly says that the important thing is to use the man to run the job, the judge.

Secretary wanted me to put a line in about the fact that the Secretary has encouraged young men to move fast in the Foreign Service.

No.

I don't.

No.

Not true.

Just leave it out.

Because we don't want to go into that now.

We thought that should be a separate story.

It'll get drowned.

So the signals that I've sent at this point

The State Department is not state, not advanced.

None of the departments are excluded from the overall, I think, excluded from this policy of change and that there's going to be

All the senior positions in the State Department are being examined with the view of bringing some new people in, getting some new blood, some younger people in, you know, promoting some younger people, and transferring people who haven't done distinguished service in their present positions to new positions where they will have a new job.

But the young people up is the president's policy, not the secretary's.

That's right.

See, that's right.

Oh, the secretary's.

I mean, that's the goddamnedest all-serving thing I ever heard of.

See, the first is not true.

Let's start with that.

Let's just probably start with that.

That's right.

Regardless of what the president feels, if you can say the president feels that the president feels that he has to deal with the humanity of the state department on various levels of service, he feels that there are some

I would say below the age of 40 years with them.

A 30-40 year old bracket.

A 30-40 year old bracket who are doing routine jobs at the present time, who have enormous capacity, and who, unless they are given an opportunity to move up, first, it will be a great loss to the government.

And also, it will, it's not fair to them.

And that President feels that we will lose, we're going to lose for adversity.

We are in the state that the Foreign Service will not attract the kind of people, people that we want in July.

This is a good way to get this story out.

Now you get it out and help, go call Ryerson, Ryerson.

Tell him, Ryerson, because he doesn't understand.

The Foreign Service will not attract

continue to attract able young people to it, unless they have a chance to go out as their capabilities, as a demonstrator of their abilities.

We can't leave them.

Too many, the president thinks there are too many young, able-meaning men, 30 to 40 of each bracket, who are shuffling papers, doing basically work that could be done by

by stenographers with them, by stenographers.

And biographers are doing work that can be done by stenographers and biographers.

And the best being high-powered escort officers for VIPs or

so-called VIPs, if this is my phrase, put it in there.

Now, he feels that if we have an able man, we must push him up and give him an opportunity to go up.

That is no reflection on some of our senior men who have done a superb job.

It's under the fact that we must many grow at the top for the able young people to go to the top.

That means transferring some people to other positions.

This is what the organization thought, and of course we understand.

What this is, is we get a spirit in there that Rogers has never gotten into the goddamn place.

And as far as some of our able people can talk, the President feels that not only in the State Department, but throughout the government, that there are many very able people

many years of service who have been in the job too long.

When a man is in the job too long, the job runs him, rather than him running the job.

I know that's followed by the best way to put it.

Folks don't understand that.

It legally is that a man should be moved out and be given a new job.

And a new man should be brought in with a fresh look to these conversations.

There must be change.

particularly abroad, shall we say, after an individual has been assigned to a country too long, to another country, he too often becomes a spokesman for, understandably, that country, rather than for the United States of America.

The President believes that the Foreign Service

at this time needs a shake-up.

Should I say that?

Yes, it needs a shake-up.

It needs new vitality, new challenge.

And the Foreign Service, just like every other, just like every other agency in this government, there's no exception.

That's it.

Just like the Justice Department, we're going to kick off some of the old assholes.

So that, so that, so that, so that it will attract young, good, effective young people into the formal service and we get them there.

That we, that we, that it's, that our responsibility is to utilize

in the announcement of course i'm going to say

Is the announcement supposed to be indicating that he's going to stay forever?

No, no.

Here's the way it basically says.

You mentioned in campaigns that there should be continuity in foreign policy.

Therefore, the President is gratified to announce this morning that Secretary Rogers will continue to serve as Secretary of State in the administration, period.

Then I go into just a paragraph.

I'm sure you're all aware that the President looks in the admiration for Secretary Rogers' success.

at present times is conducting very, very, is responsible for very important negotiations in the Mideast, Far East areas, in preparation for the European Security Conference, not only at this time.

You don't want me to say contributed amazement to the improvement of

Okay, none of the past.

Just straight.

Then Bill Rush.

I don't think they need to build it.

But I don't want a great big story.

He's the best secretary.

That's why we're leaving.

And why are we letting Robby go because he's the worst?

Don't build up the guys instead.

The fact they're steady is not inclined to do it.

We're not going to build him up either.

Don't build up any of the men that stay.

Build some men that leave.

Again, the men that leave and the changes that are being made.

The Casey thing is the best thing for the state to do.

The Casey thing is a typical example.

He's a man who will bring an entirely fresh look

for the state of America, particularly being due to this.

And since a great part of foreign policy is going to have to do with economic affairs, particularly the new relationship with the European Union and the common market with the growing economic competition with Japan, and the new breakthrough with the Soviet Union and China, that the state of economics is going to become an increasingly important part

It's one of the most important requirements he's made in this entire period, but it's not one of the most important requirements he's made.

People have responsibility for the state, the state department for the state department is ready to conduct its economic affairs in a way

he's going to be able to do that.

I really, I'd like to be smart.

I'd like to be able to do more like that.

I'd like to be able to do it, but he's really understanding.

But he made this point, you know, that moving in the economic area is just a thing that I'm doing.

That's right.

Stay there for a while.

He said, don't put out when I'm coming in to chop up the department.

Put out when I'm coming in to handle economics, and then I'll start moving around.

Yeah.

And I'll tell you what to do.

Okay.

I'm saying, we're going to announce the budget piece.

No, but I'm going to say you are.

I'm going to say you are.

You said you were going to do it.

You said it was an important thing.

So it doesn't matter.

I'll just say you did it kind of on the back after I finished it.

Right.

You don't need me to talk to you.

I'll just tell you something.

What is this?

The, uh, you had a little friend of yours.

I mean, he never even saw it.

He sure did.

Well, he was great on that.

That guy was a guy.

But Buckley was not happy about that, was he?

No, no, no.

Buckley was ecstatic.

I don't agree with what you said.

You said it's time for some good salt.

Hardhat is.

If they ask about a hardhat, you say the President believes it's much better to have a hardhat than a softhat.

Okay.

I'm saying that's my goal.

I told somebody that last night about a hardhat.

You want to have a hardhat?

Yep.

Well, I'd hell of a lot better to have a hardhat than a softhat.

We apparently made a very moving statement about you yesterday at an AFL-CIO meeting where one of Rockefeller's people was there.

Francis?

Yeah.

But he's just great because he talks, you know, he's not afraid to be.

But he's like all the Democrats we've brought in.

They're the only other two.

They're both not afraid to be emotional.

They're not afraid to put out a speech for the president.

They say, I love everybody else.

Everybody else is concerned about whether the president, everybody else is concerned about whether the press is going to play.

Yeah.

Well, maybe they're overstating this, or that Lenny is impressed.

They're part of it.

They don't do anything funny and get out and just un-crash and say things, which is the reason.

And Democratic presidents are built up.

Republican presidents are talked down.

Because our people are always brown-nosing the goddamn press, when the press are always kicking us in the ass.

But, uh, he did well.

He did well.

He did.

And they've tied it back to the, you know, the cardinal obsession that they had with Oswald.

I want to make a brownie point before I ask to be made available to the president.

It really fits, Mr. Secretary, who's going to talk to me, who's talking to me.

I'm not going to say the president is going to make it as part of the other, but because of the importance of the role of the Senate,

He felt that this should be separated out so that it should rise separately.

And then we're going to take it today and say, well, tell the government to say he's going to get some flack for this because he had told the others that they would all be announced together.

And they're not going to like it.

But the Secretary wants you to know, the President wants you to know that it's because he considered your assignment wrong.

And he wants the country to know you're going to go wrong.

Give him a little bit of a leash, sir.

He'll love it.

And he'll do a better job.

You better tell Gary Martin.

Well, if you do that, before we get to the crisis, Greg and Mark are going to ask you to do that foreign service for one, if you will.

I don't know if they can pretend I don't know what it is.

Well, you could take McComber's job.

McComber has to go out.

He should be an ambassador.

Because he's a real ambassador, Mark.

What is McComber's job?

Deputy Secretary for Administration.

I'm going to announce Jason, yes.

Well, they might be undersecretaries.

Apparently, there is someone.

There is no undersecretary.

That's the one we were misled on.

All right.

Well, we were told that they were...

Right, right.

If he would work, if he would work.

If he, at least he's a loyalist.

He's not against the youth movement, because I'm going to kick the old farts out, and he's old.

Well, he isn't against the youth movement.

He was savaged by the foreign service.

You rescued him from being the administrator of...

I'm going to do what I'm going to do.

I want him brought back.

And I want Casey to have a chance.

I want Casey to see if he fits along with it.

And then if he comes in and he gets Casey to do the job.

I told Casey that he could come here on the conference and it would be his decision to make.

No, no, no, no.

I want him out.

And I'm going to replace him for that job.

Casey's got to have his name in there.

Cocker is there, been there too long.

He's got to get his ass up.

But I just wanted to give you just 15 minutes with this fellow.

So they haven't had the wrong idea of what you meant by the contact the State Department had leaked.

The content of our meetings was we were going to have an unfeasible presence within one week.

Well, I thought you weren't getting accomplished, to say the least.

Well, but Sutherland was in the meeting, and he agreed.

He was saying that we had an agreement neither side would reveal the content, but they've kept it up to now, and I savaged them, honestly.

Of course, they read something.

Would you please call and ask who the hell put that out?

We got it on the feature at dateline, but the feature couldn't possibly have done it.

It's the Pentagon.

They don't have it.

The Pentagon doesn't have it.

I saw the paper this morning.

I know it was given in on this or that, but other points are in and out.

I don't know who they helped put that out.

That's true, but it's...

I know it's true.

That point is...

Bob, you remember I gave you the instructions the day before yesterday to call State and the ministers.

We know we're talking about Vietnam.

I want to know that.

I need a goddamn report after this JCS meeting about this.

Or from now on, nothing goes.

And I haven't even solved it.

There doesn't sit many meetings now.

I got that.

And I got to know.

I have got to know where that King featured doesn't probably have checked the White House.

And he hasn't been there.

He hasn't been in or around the White House for three years.

Just like that.

They don't want to build on that because they'll use feature as an excuse that obviously that's one of the standard times for it.

Someone gave it to someone else and they lost it.

The feature doesn't matter.

No, no.

I'm just saying.

I know.

It could have come from our people, but it absolutely did not.

I don't think we can find one leak that came out of my staff.

They quit, but they didn't leave.

He's got to hear from you that the only changes possible are the ones I discussed with him in directs and discussed before, discussed with him last time.

No.

Then he comes back with two big changes.

What do I say?

No changes.

Say everything we...

Although you're trying to work some of the things you've discussed... By indirect.

By indirect.

If you tell him that... Well, he used the only significant thing, and I put it on a hyper-variable basis in any sense, that the last of our meetings...

He finally would say, in a planky way almost, in an indirect way, you could do this or that.

We will try.

We will try, Mr. President, but we will operate from very narrow mountains next week.

And they've already gotten a hell of a lot.

They got 12 changes last week.

Yeah, but that's not anything, Eric, on these two points.

Well, that's right.

I'm sorry, Mr. President.

No, no, the DMC.

The combination of the DMC recognition for the neutrality of Laos and Cambodia, how the hell are they going to get into South Vietnam if they have to respect the DMC, Laos, and Cambodia?

21, I'm sorry.

No, no, and 11, too.

And I wouldn't give them a hell of a lot of time.

Well, I haven't got time, because I leave the helicopter at 8 or 12, and replace it with the Joint Chiefs.

I sent you a paper.

I think...

I'm going to start my first meeting with more eight-layer meetings.

Good.

Has Richardson been— No.

No, I mean, has he been told that there's a direct contact?

President, I told him.

Good.

I said, I'm going to see the chairman of the drug chiefs.

I'm going to see service secretaries.

And I'm also going to see any

One, I said, for example, a Navy guy gets on the line, I'm going to talk to him.

Directly.

I said, I want you to know, I'll inform you of it.

But I've got to talk to some of these people.

I don't believe in big things.

I'm a man to man.

That's good.

With rigorous indulgence, and I understood.

You see, when people want a job, they can take all sorts of concessions.

Well, they're going to get the other way around.

They're running goddamn fast.

No, I think that's going to work out very well.

Of the chiefs, I thought, in order to

I can't say anything about how they're going to have to cooperate with the federal school.

No, I wouldn't talk.

And I wouldn't talk about it.

I'd keep it to be it now.

And I thought what the two major things you might say to them.

One is, first of all, not to debrief their staff when they go back, because otherwise it would leak all over the place.

Secondly, to tell that they have never been told about the agreement.

And if you wanted to, I could give them a five-minute summary.

Then this is an agreement.

I want you to advocate it.

I don't want to hear any more of Dan's business.

The second thing to stress, I think, is Rose came in this morning with a letter from the vice.

And that came around and went through a circle where the vice president forwarded a meeting.

from somebody with POWYs who said, don't give in on the subject until every last North Vietnamese is out of South Vietnam.

So this is Edwin's line.

I'm trying to get across a very simple point.

I don't care about the little girl who sent the letter.

I care a hell of a lot about the vice president, who should have, of course, brought that in.

I want you to tell the vice.

Who's going to tell the vice president?

What are you going to tell him?

I'll tell him that I explained to him what the interest is.

And got that, but you've got to stand with it and be wise when it comes around.

There must be no undercutting the disagreement.

It would be in two more years, but you could get them out if you blasted them maybe for two more years.

There's no way you could get them out.

And for two years, and you'd have to pray to China.

You've got to come up.

that in the event this thing breaks out again, we will bomb again.

Also, it would require congressional approval.

We often don't.

Because it requires congressional approval.

I did have a point.

If you've got a point for the fact that the treaty has been broken, or this or that, or the other thing, you're going to have something.

You're goddamn right.

I think we've got to say it's not congressional.

I don't think we'll get congressional approval.

Well, that doesn't mean anything.

You see, here's the point, Harry.

When you start, when we tell them we'll start the war again in the event the North Vietnamese invade again, the Congress is not going to approve it.

Now, we're doing this as a selling point for this guy, but I think we should be under no illusions about what the hell we're doing.

I think, Mr. President, if we can bluff to know that you are going to start again, we're going to have peace.

If they have any idea that you're not going to be able to do it...

I understand.

I'm simply telling you that in both cases we're shooting blinds.

So we must be under no illusions.

could not start this war again and get public approval, you couldn't do it.

And, uh, you know that.

Well, we may be—then we may lose it.

If they really believe we're not gonna do it, we've gotta play it very hard.

You're missing the point.

No, I know what you're saying.

My view is to play it very hard to the north and south.

But we've got to know in our inner councils what the hell we're up against.

And what we're up against is getting congressional approval for starting a war.

But one way to play it hard, Mr. President, would be the first violation in South Vietnam.

We talked with the chief of staff to violate it, even though it would create an uproar.

I mean, that's a one-time attack, because if we overkill the third time, then they're going to be scared.

But if we let them do salami tactics, I think it's going to be awful.

You could get away with that.

You could get away with a hell of a bombing strike like that, a quite surgical strike.

You couldn't get away, though, with just arms.

Well, here we go again, folks.

That I don't think is necessary.

What is necessary is that we clobber one or two more.

The second thing about the treats, and that is part of the game plan, is to tell them to be ready and to have standby plans for reacting to violations.

And that's the second thing.

And those are the two things that are already in the second one, aren't they?

We don't get the grain.

Yeah, I suppose.

That's the four-day strike, the seven-day strike, and all the rest.

Yeah, but we did.

They've got escalated things.

Those would be the two measures that... You may know practice a little bit.

Oh, no, I gave them two solutions that we are intercepting their cable.

And he's reported them correctly and much less than what they asked you in the letter.

And that's why I suppose that they understand that what I told them in Paris last night is the absolute magnifying glass.

Whether or not we should prove to your Lord of my meeting with you at an earlier time.

Now, I finessed it yesterday.

Let me explore that with them rather than you, because they may use it to delay it.

My point is that instead of you going to Sihanouk, this is to be the, that if you're going to Sihanouk, I meet with you, and then you go on and on.

Well, that's what I mean.

That's what I mean.

I told them that we won't go to the summit unless we know what's on the other side.

We must have an agreement before I go.

But the point is, do we want to do that?

We've got two chances to meet with you.

We have to meet with them after it's all signed.

The other thing would be to meet with them before and say, all right, this is our agreement.

Now Dr. Kistler will go to Hanoi.

Why do you go to Hanoi then?

For what purpose?

We've already signed the agreement.

That might be the change.

But if I could talk to you, you're going to.

I'm not going to talk about the post-war situation.

What we will do there is to discuss.

All right.

You talked a little about that.

I think rather than having you go there with the idea, with the strict idea that there is not going to be any further changes, that the agreement was made.

I think it had to not be that way.

He and I will meet.

But in that case, not.

Why?

Well, it would have to be .

Yeah.

It would have to be.

All right, go sign it.

I would go sign it.

Well, maybe it looks just the other way.

Maybe that's what they need.

No, it's maybe too dangerous, but why not Guam?

Guam is very close.

Or Midway.

That's where it all began.

Is it possible?

Anytime in the next 10 days.

I can go any place, whatever it has to be.

Any place, including Christmas or New Year's.

I'm holding everything open.

That's too late.

I'm just telling you that this is the most important thing you can have on you.

I can go, yes, I can go tomorrow.

before you go but it has to be for the purpose of saying this is the agreement

All right.

And I'll raise it with him.

But don't, don't ever raise it with me, not that you and he'll work it out.

There's a lot to be said.

If he will regress, it would be better for him afterwards if you met at these times, too.

I know.

But I would think if that's the way to get the to-do in China out of the way.

Maybe you'd rather have me first, and then you go after it.

The president and you have met and said, this is our understanding of the agreement.

I just thought there were no changes to the agreement, but we, after that meeting,

One other thing, Mr. President, you could consider is to meet you before the agreement.

Then you would be the one who's cutting him to do it.

And after this, what he would really like to do is to meet with other three Asian leaders, the Thai, the Philippines, the Koreans.

And then come see me again?

Not that.

You'd meet with all of them once more after the agreement.

You see what I mean?

Where would that be then?

San Clemente?

Could they come to meet for a change?

Should Q come to you if you do the early meeting?

No.

Midway is too far.

Midway is right.

It's easier for me.

It's too goddamn far.

And Midway isn't how it's presented.

Yeah, that's what we meant before.

You know, Midway, that looks to have such symbolism.

We'd meet at Midway before, and then afterwards, what would happen?

All you could invite Mark was to Midway at the first meeting.

No, to the second meeting.

Second meeting.

That would be after the signing.

But when?

Oh, when?

Two weeks after.

Were you getting close to the inauguration?

If I'd sent you to say it.

Well, to be held silent.

Where would that be?

That would have to do with the matter.

Well, if that's America, then it's okay.

I'd say San Fernando.

And I would go somewhere else.

Yes.

And then, I think that gets it the maximum, simply.

Don't you think it's going to be about, who is about to make it?

Yes.

It's definitely going to be about five minutes.

Five minutes.

I'm really pissed off at the league that has that accent.

And I'm pissed off at the league that is right after we're in to have this issue of you can't talk to anybody even if you can't date.

Nobody knew about the accent with John Irving.

I don't think you can leave that.

I think you've got to say now who the hell is John Irving.

I know John did, but it couldn't come out of a tracer.

That's my point.

But John likes to roll a bow at a farmer.

See?

Bob, we'll find out.

You see?

Yeah.

But John likes to bring his people into the deals and all and so forth, and I understand that.

It's a great thing, but God damn it, Bob, you can't afford it when you're playing big games.

You can't afford to have leaps.

For sure.

You don't see the... You don't see the...

Absolutely.

You don't see the enormity of this.

What's that?

Terrible.

Oh.

For people to leave stuff.

I'm going to find out that they're here.

Then I'm going to invite them.

I would much rather do it on my ground, okay?

Invite them to the blue room after dinner for a coffee.

Oh, after dinner.

Before dinner.

And then I'll go to Camp David, I'll have the helicopter wheeled up, and I'll go back to Camp David, and I'll invite the board in for cocktails at 6 o'clock.

And then they get the hell out.

You see, then that gets a cut-off on, so that I don't have to feel like I have to stick around.

So, I mean, if you ever come down, would you want to take a bite on the Camp David?

Never.

It's easier for you?

How many hours?

I think it's about 20.

Well, yes.

You heard they were going to be here.

You asked them to come up before dinner for, you know.

Well, can we get them the hell out then?

Oh, hell yes.

The dinner would still be wherever it is.

I still, Bob's supposed to throw me in on this today.

I don't know what the hell he's up to.

It's a black-tied interview.

You should not be in black-tie.

I mean, symbolically, you should not be in black-tie.

No, no, no.

But I would invite them if they wanted to.

You could get a helicopter for them.

And invite them up there.

Is that a bad call?

Yeah, it probably is.

It's probably better for you to come down.

Let me come down, and they can come over, and I will not be in black-tie.

I'll just welcome them all and thank them all.

But God damn it, I told him to finish his letter down, so that it doesn't go as far.

It's a dorsal letter.

I've got to find out what the hell he's really up to here.

And Mr. Jack Brown, now, I want you to straight arm.

You'll have to straight arm and then talk about this one.

You can't date it and everything.

You say we've got people.

I want to get something out and we're having meetings.

We are.

We don't have it.

I don't know how many of us.

Well, anyway, we're doing this.

Yeah.

I think you've got two or three things.

Have you got the client in position yet?

Yes, sir.

Is he going to take what you're saying?

Oh, no, I don't have the position to look at that.

That's gross.

It's before the Saturday announcement, so we can get that decision.

I haven't talked with Adam about that.

I'm sorry, I don't know.

I'm sorry.

It should be separated now.

Now, with regard to flying, we ought to know.

I think, I guess we're going to have to, I'm going to try and do it.

I think we may just be better off to let that float for now.

We'll get it done.

You mean not enough that he's leaving?

Yeah.

My God.

But you're announcing Colson's leaving?

What did you say?

What does he say when he asks what about Irvine?

I don't want to get Irvine old.

Why don't we say that there is?

He knows he's called.

There's no question on that.

He is working.

All right.

Why don't you ask her what does he want said, right?

And how he could say that he's considering another position in government.

Why don't we just say that?

Well, he's considering another position in government.

He may believe this position.

He's considering another.

He can then decide to go outside, but then he's out.

He will stay through the inauguration.

Why don't you say that?

He is considering another position in government, a very important position.

And we'll have an announcement a little later today as to his plans.

That's what I want to say about it, right?

Colson, you've got to cover me.

I talked to Rose this morning and she brought in a hobbyist letter again and said, you know, we've got an awful lot of letters like this and I haven't answered them.

So I haven't written anything.

I should probably stay out of answering all these other things.

But it's obvious that she was running a little game regarding somebody sending all the letters on that to her.

But what is the situation?

They're gone.

She's got five letters in that hand, and that's something that we'll see.

Do we ever get any possible letters from those?

Oh, yeah.

She puts them in here by the time you see all those.

Sure.

That's where they come from.

They've already been introduced.

Okay.

All this heartache, cocktails, and blue.

Half-off, half-off.

Half-off, cocktails and so forth.

That's much better.

That's what I really do.

And I'll drop in.

And that's that.

It's incredible.

And what Bob has done here is a typical bench operation.

He's kicking off his own campaign, financial campaign.

But he's doing it.

You can't do this quite that way.

Now, right so.

You can now offer him Geneva.

Not the other job, but Geneva.

But do that immediately so you'll have something to say on Saturday night.

Say, it's a hell of a living here.

And it is one where you can

You've got the International Labor Organization.

Do you know the kind of organizations?

Yeah.

The International Labor Organization, the World Health Organization is there, and so forth.

And it's a hell of a good assignment, and it is one where there would be no problem of changing you after a period of time.

And it's a prestigious appointment, a prestigious appointment.

And if there's any question about it coded, you're safe.

We cannot give you anything else.

We can't move you out.

We can't have that kind of change.

And we heard from that fellow Peterson.

I need the word on that today, Bob.

You've got to press Schultz and Kissinger.

This is incredible.

What's incredible?

These people.

We've got the leaders and all that stuff.

Are we going to be better?

Yes, sir.

It's about 10 people in total.

We'd like to move them in, sir.

All right, sir.

I want them to have a few.

Are you ready for the message?

I'll just be at the call that I've got.

I've got a very important phone call.

I'll be about five minutes.

All right, sir.

The other one is Dole, and where that stands, I don't know if you saw the post this morning, but he obviously put out, there's a post on the front page, saying things to keep Dole in the picture, of Dole in a byline story that says that, it gives all the details that Dole met with the President, the President told him there should be a change in the committee, that, uh,

Dole said, well, I've heard his situation in Kansas.

And the president said, oh, we'll find that you can stay on as long as you feel you'd like to.

And Dole probably will leave sometime in the spring or summer, but it's not clear that that option is up to him.

Now, that is unbelievable.

I couldn't agree with you more.

But that's what's there.

That's it.

He's going on the 20th.

We're going to build a fire.

No, it's already done.

What happened?

I talked to Dole, and I told you yesterday, he must have logged this out before I talked to him.

He talked with Mitchell, and in the Mitchell meeting, John said there's no, he said there's no problem with him on the timing.

The only thing now is to work out the format, so that he puts it into parlay in the right way.

He is meeting with Bush this morning.

Yeah.

The guy is so stupid, it's beyond belief.

He played 180 degrees the wrong way.

And he said, they got a quote in it.

He said, well, I don't know what I'm going to do.

I think you're a coronation.

And he made his ritual trip to the mountaintop.

And it's just, it's a, I'm bad.

He's hurt himself so badly, it's unbelievable.

But go ahead, what's next?

It doesn't really hurt us.

Go ahead, what's next?

Bush is meeting with him right now.

And you told Bush the hard line.

Absolutely.

And Bush totally agrees.

And he's a pleasure to work with.

Because he said, I see your point.

He said, we've got it.

I can.

The police has got to be, because of that, we've got to have this thing settled now because we're going to something.

And then there's a security council in Peru or something that has to be done by Panama.

That has to be settled by, we have to know by January.

I've got to get the other man out here.

And Bush said, tell me from my own guidance, is there a need to make a move because you have to put someone else in?

And I said, no, George, there's not.

But there is a need to make a move in order to get it.

And he said, fine, that's all I want to know.

He said, if there's a move on the other way, if you've got a cycle you've got to set up, that's fine too.

I said, there is no cycle.

There is a, I didn't raise the replacement.

I said, the replacement thing, we've got ready to move, we can go ahead and do it.

And he said, though,

Dole obviously understands.

Dole was also one of our leaders.

No question.

Go ahead.

But that he, Dole understands he's got to go.

There's no problem with the timing now.

He understands that.

When you talked to Dole about Bush, did it shock you?

I couldn't tell.

He was in New York.

I talked to him on the phone.

I couldn't tell whether it did or not.

But you did it though.

This is great.

Oh, yeah.

And all that.

Oh, sure.

I went all the way looking up, and he said, that is great, and that's exactly what we need there.

And I took on a automobile, and that's the thing that's so astonishing.

Bush said it.

He said, well, I told him about that, because I wanted him to understand what he was dealing with.

So obviously what Dole's trying to hang onto is the rent on his apartment, which he said he had committed to.

I said, well, apparently so, because he said he has at least more money or something in his levy.

And $300,000 to raise for his campaign.

I didn't mention it to Mitchell.

I said, if you get into anything there, just make it clear to Dole

helping this campaign financing the European trip and all that are contingent on this being done right.

They are not payoffs after a fight.

They're payoffs after a proper exchange here.

And John said, I understand.

Well, Bush kind of laughed.

He said, well, I can explain.

He said, I couldn't understand when the president mentioned to me about a limousine and all.

He said, I hope he understands.

I couldn't care less about a goddamn car.

And I said, here's a few guys that just cared about the car.

And early on, he said, everybody cares about a car.

He told me.

And I said, that's bullshit, John.

They can't.

Little people do.

That's right.

Little people.

Little people do.

And that's probably part of the reason, probably.

Sure.

Physically, a little bit.

Well, I didn't mean little physically.

I meant little mentally, philosophically.

It's just unbelievable.

God, we didn't think it would be.

But George is going to be, he's excited about the job.

He's positive.

The market thinks about us.

We've got to get him out so I can get started.

That's what I told George.

Yes.

Right.

And that, and that, uh, in fact, we ought to come with George.

Right.

So anyway, no, I'm going to talk to you.

And then, uh, out of that, don't, and you have agreed, uh, and you've called Bush.

He couldn't do better.