Conversation 872-019

On March 8, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Lelsie T. ("Bob") Hope, unknown person(s), H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:50 pm and 3:34 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 872-019 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 872-19

Date: March 8, 1973
Time: Unknown between 2:50 pm and 3:34 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Leslie T. (“Bob”) Hope. The White House photographer was present at
the beginning of the meeting.

       Greetings

       Gift -Golf club
                  -Camp David
                  -Weight, type

The White House photographer left.

       Golf celebrity tournament at Woodmont
             -President's game
                   -Burning Tree Country Club
                          -A tree
                          -Melvin R. Laird

       Prisoners of war [POWs]
             -Evening at the White House
             -Hardships
             -Discipline
                   -Example for US

An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 2:50 pm.

       H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman's attendance at meeting

The unknown man left at an unknown time before 3:05 pm.

       POWs
                                           -34-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. May-2010)
                                                         Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

            -Discipline
            -Patriotism
            -Vietnam War
                  -Value
            -Heroes
            -Appreciation
                  -Vietnam War veterans and casualties
                        -Hospitals

Haldeman entered at 3:05 pm.

      White House entertainment
           -Evening at the White House for POWs
                 -Tony Martin, Sammy Davis, Jr.
                 -Reception
                 -Postponement
                       -Return of all POWs
                 -Hope’s variety show
                 -Military
                 -Hope's advice
                       -Contact with Haldeman
           -National show for POWs
                 -Jane Fonda
                 -Honor America theme
                 -Primetime Television [TV]
                       -POW repatriation
                             -Timing
           -Sammy Davis, Jr.
                 -Overnight stay in White House Lincoln Bedroom
                 -Performance
           -Hope's remarks at dinner
           -National show for POWs
                 -TV
                 -Planning
                       -Compared to fundraising dinners
                             -Contributors
                       -Celebrities
                       -Broadcast
                       -Location
                 -Proceeds
                                      -35-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               (rev. May-2010)
                                                       Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                 -Scholarship fund
                        -Vietnam veterans
                        -Children of killed, wounded, and missing in action
           -Telethon
                 -Planning
           -President's attendance
                 -Los Angeles
           -Fundraising dinner
                 -VIPs attendance
                        -Tax deductable donations
           -Telethon
                 -Advantage
                        -Wider participation
           -Broadcast
           -Hope's advice
                 -Telethon
                        -Contributions
           -Dinner and telethon
                 -Network TV broadcast
                 -POWs, celebrities, Cabinet officers, military
                 -President’s attendance
                        -Los Angeles
                              -Century Plaza
                 -Los Angeles
                        -Advantages
                              -Celebrities
                              -Timing

Veterans
     -Exploitation
     -Fundraising events
          -H. Ross Perot
          -Ford Motor Company
     -Scholarship fund
          -Eligibility
                 -Disability
                 -Thailand
          -Amount of money
          -Source of funds
          -Compared to veterans benefits
                                           -36-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. May-2010)
                                                           Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

             -POWs
                 -Entertainment at the White House
                       -Planning
                             -Haldeman’s role
                       -Variety show
                             -Les Brown's band
                       -Date

      Golf
             -President's game
             -Hope's golf clubs

      Plaque
           -Gift of Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo, Robert H. Abplanalp to President

An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 3:05 pm.

      Plaque
           -Massachusetts
           -Executive Office Building office
           -Delivery to Oval Office

The unknown man left at an unknown time before 3:20 pm.

*****************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift during
chronological review 2007-2013]

      Golf
             -Game
             -Twosomes
                   -Length of time to play
             -Hope’s game
             -President’s game
                   -Need for exercise, diversion
             -Hope’s meeting with Dwight D. Eisenhower
                   -Walter Reed Hospital
                         -Mamie G. D. Eisenhower
                                             -37-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. May-2010)
                                                              Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

            -Joke about golfer

*****************************************************************

       Nguyen Van Thieu
           -Joke
                 -Gen. Juan Domingo Peron

       Thieu's visit to US
            -Demonstrations
                    -Support for North Vietnam
                    -Le Duc Tho
                    -Protection
                          -Washington, DC
                          -San Clemente

       Mardi Gras
            -Hope as King
            -1973 inauguration
            -Rowdiness
                   -Object thrown at Hope
            -Irish wakes
            -Parades
                   -Number
            -Hope
                   -Security guards
            -New Orleans French Quarter
                   -Hippies
                        -Marijuana smoking

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 3:05 pm.

       Plaque

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 3:20 pm.

            -Gift of Abplanalp
                  -President’s birthday
            -Hope's opinion
                                            -38-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. May-2010)
                                                            Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

       Paul W. Keyes
            -Planning
                  -White House events

Haldeman left at 3:20 pm.

       Hope's schedule
            -Return to California
            -Telegrams
            -Award
                  -Hollywood Television Society
                        -Purpose

       Vietnam War
            -Post card to Hope
                  -Second term in office
                  -Bombing
            -May 1972 bombings, mining
                  -Summit with USSR
            -December 1972 bombing
                  -Impact on peace negotiations
                  -Lost aircraft
                  -Compared to Lyndon B. Johnson
                  -Damage to enemy
                        -B-52s
                  -POWs’ reaction
                        -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
                  -Press criticism
                  -Henry A. Kissinger, Melvin R. Laird
                  -Sorties
                        -B-52s
                  -Impact on peace negotiations
                  -Americans’ attitude toward defeat
            -POWs
                  -Return
                  -Col. Robinson Risner, [first name unknown] Kassler, James A. Mulligan,
                    Capt. Jeremiah A. Denton
                        -Pride
                  -Denton’s letter
                                     -39-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               (rev. May-2010)
                                                   Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                  -Compared to Abraham Lincoln
     -Hope’s support for President
     -Criticism
            -New York Times, Life, Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
     -Bombings
            -Necessity
                  -US status as great power
                  -Leonid I. Brezhnev and Chou En-lai
                  -President’s 1959 “Kitchen Debate”
                         -Nikita S. Khrushchev
     -Clark M. Clifford
            -Talk with Hope during Burning Tree golf game
            -Vietnam War
                  -South Vietnam’s government
                         -Corruption
            -Bombing halt in 1968
     -B-52 bombings
            -Moorer
            -President's responsibility
            -Weather
            -Damage to enemy
     -Hopes' visit to Thailand
            -Talk with Gen. [first name unknown] Sullivan
            -December 26, 1972 bombing
                  -Haiphong
            -Air Force personnel
                  -Entertainment
                  -Stress level
     -B-52 losses
            -Christmas losses
            -Compared to World War II
     -Bombings
            -Press criticism
                  -Chicago Tribune
                  -Washington Post
                         -Acknowledgment of President's success

People’s Republic of China [PRC]
     -Kissinger's conversation with Chou En-lai
           -Hope's film on the USSR
                                             -40-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. May-2010)
                                                             Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                  -Eugene Ormandy's visit to PRC
             -Hope's USSR trip
                  -USSR’s response to tour
                  -Purpose of tour

The President talked to the White House operator.

[Conversation No. 872-19A]

[See Conversation No. 37-62]

[End of telephone conversation]

       Hope’s tour of PRC
            -Follow-up

       Radio station
            -KRLA
                   -Pasadena, California
            -Acquisition

******************************************************************************

[Previous Deed of Gift Privacy (D) rereviewed on 01/03/2023. Segment cleared for release.]
[Privacy]
[872-019-w005]
[Duration: 10s]

       Radio station
            -Paul Lee [?]
            -[First name unknown] Levy
            -[First name unknown] Stasher [sp?]
            -Earnings

******************************************************************************

       Radio station
            -Hearings
                                            -41-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. May-2010)
                                                            Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

             -Engineering
             -TV station
             -Robert Maheu, Orange Group
             -Conflict over acquisition
             -Western Broadcasting

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger between 3:26 pm and 3:27 pm.

[Conversation No. 872-19B]

[See Conversation No. 37-63]

[End of telephone conversation]

       Hope’s tour of PRC
            -Letter
                  -Kissinger

       Hope's watch
            -Special features
            -David Sarnoff dinner
            -Compared to clock in Oval Office
                   -Age
                   -Value
            -Gift to President
                   -President's thanks
                   -Golf club

       Hope’s trip to [PRC]
            -Talks with US officials
                   -Kissinger, George H. W. Bush, William P. Rogers
                         -Meeting with President
                               -Camp David
                   -Letter to Ottawa Embassy
                         -Rogers
            -Letter from Hope
                   -Kissinger
                   -Delivery
                         -Private channel
                         -Chou En-Lai
                                                -42-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                           (rev. May-2010)
                                                             Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

       Hope's watch
            -Special features
            -[First name unknown] Conrad, Sarnoff

       Golf
              -President's game
                    -Course
                           -Kenwood Country Club
                           -San Clemente
              -Hope's favorite course
                    -Game with John B. Connally and William E. Simon
                           -Score

       Meeting with Newbold (“Newby”) Noyes, Jr.

Hope and the President left at 3:34 pm.

                                                                     Conversation No. 873-20

Date: March 8, 1973
Time: Unknown between 3:34 pm and 4:34 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Leslie T. (“Bob”) Hope, Newbold (“Newby”) Noyes, Jr. and John D.
Ehrlichman. The White House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

       Greetings

       Roller skates [?]

Hope left at an unknown time before 4:34 pm.

       Golf
              -President's game
                    -Frequency
              -Hope
                                              -43-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. May-2010)
                                                                 Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                  -Golf club in act
                  -Visit to Camp David
                        -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
                        -Gift of club to President-Inscription

      Photographs
           -Arrangements

      Hope's watch
           -Gift to President
           -Special features
                  -Lighted dial

*****************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift during
chronological review 2007-2013]

      David McI. Kendall

*****************************************************************

      Vietnam War
           -Noyes’s letter to President
                 -Reason for meeting
                 -Inaugural address [?]
                 -President's thanks
                 -Reasons for writing
           -President's meeting with John L. McClellan
                 -Budget, economic aid to Vietnam
           -December 1972 bombing
                 -President’s explanation
                        -Impact on negotiations
                        -Prisoners of war [POWs]
                        -Ceasefire
                        -Resumption of talks
                 -Private message
                        -Response
                                      -44-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. May-2010)
                                                       Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

          -Support for President’s decisions
                 -Explanation
                      -McClellan
     -Washington Star
          -Editorial position
          -Pressures on Noyes
          -Contrast with Washington Post
     -Noyes's letter
          -President’s programs
                 -Budget
                 -Need for explanation
                      -President’s public statements
                             -Cities

Public relations
      -President's presentation of programs
             -Need to show appreciation of problems
                   -Urban issues
             -Appeal to public sentiments
             -Dangers
                   -Mood of Middle America, labor
                          -Discontent with programs, taxes
                                -President’s role
                   -Conflict between poor and middle class
                   -Mood of antagonism toward social programs
             -Press reports on President's programs
                   -Misinterpretation
             -President's radio speech on crime and drugs
                   -State of the Union series
                   -Timing
                          -Sunday newspapers
             -Veterans' programs
                   -Dependent’s benefits
                          -World War II
                   -Influence of veterans lobby
                          -President’s experience in Congress
                                -Veterans bonus
                          -Lack of interest in Vietnam Veterans
                          -Medical care
                          -45-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                    (rev. May-2010)
                                           Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

-Crime program
      -President's convictions
             -Capital punishment
                   -Terrorism
                         -Sudan
                         -William P. Rogers’s statement
                         -Cleo A. Noel, Jr. and George C. Moore
                   -Sirhan Sirhan
                   -Hijacking, kidnapping
                         -Court rulings
      -Prison reform
             -Lack of publicity
-President’s hard line
      -Vindictiveness
             -1972 election victory
      -Ehrlichman’s role
      -Ronald L. Ziegler’s role
      -Emphasis
-Nation's mood
      -Reconciliation
      -Noyes's concerns
      -Changes since 1968
             -Peace abroad
      -Divisive nature of political campaigns
      -President's role in setting tone
             -Amnesty
             -Projection of concern
-President's concerns
      -Cities
             -Problems
                   -Housing, education
      -Housing
             -Perception compared to reality
             -Administration's progress
             -Construction
                   -Low income units
                   -Public housing
             -Starts
                   -Number
                   -Federal credit
                           -46-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                     (rev. May-2010)
                                            Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                         -Fannie Mae, Ginny Mae
                   -Increases
            -Perceptions
                   -Herblock cartoon
            -Past failures
                   -St. Louis, Washington, DC
                   -Housing projects
                   -Slums
            -Satisfactions
            -Downtown
            -Ghetto
-Presentation
      -President's concerns, priorities
      -Impact on public attitudes
-David Broder
      -Article on President's record
            Washington Post
-Need to convey sense of concern
      -Housing, food stamps, education
-Racial problems
      -Press conference
            -Question
                   -Blacks
                         -1972 election
                         -President’s concern
                         -Disadvantages
-Press coverage
      -Focus on rhetoric compared to programs
            -Housing
            -Racial prejudice
            -Education
            -Lyndon B. Johnson
-Presentation
      -Problems in communication
            -Wire services, reporters
            -Hard news compared to rhetoric
                   -Primetime TV
                         -President’s press conference
                   -Tom Jarriel
            -Methods of reaching public
                                 -47-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                           (rev. May-2010)
                                                  Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

             -Gimmicks
                   -Compassion
                   -Black church
-President's public image
      -Mean mood
      -President's 1972 election victory
             -Vindication
      -Need for reconciliation with adversaries
      -Problems
             -Vindictive image
                   -Scrooge compared to Santa Claus
-Franklin D. Roosevelt
      -Accomplishments
             -Impact on elite's attitude
                   -Social responsibility of big business
-President's public image
      -Needs
             -Influence on Middle America
                   -Social conscience
                         -Archie Bunker types
      -Past presidents
             -Franklin D. Roosevelt
             -John F. Kennedy
             -Dwight D. Eisenhower
                   -Period of normalcy
      -Role of press
             -TV compared to newspapers
             -Reporters
                   -Difficulties of job
                         -Issues
                                -Vietnam War
                                -Defense, antiballistic missiles [ABM]
                         -Biases, beliefs
-President's programs
      -Gimmicks
      -Projection of concern
             -Distortions by press
      -Problems of communication
-Press relations
      -Beliefs, biases
                               -48-

     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                         (rev. May-2010)
                                               Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

             -President’s attitude
      -Difficulties
      -President's programs
             -Ehrlichman’s briefings
                   -Head Start
                   -Misinformation
                         -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
                          Budget
                                -San Antonio, Texas and Wyoming
      -Administration's limitations
      -John D. Ehrlichman's briefings
      -President's radio speeches
      -Distortion of intent of programs
             -Program cuts
                   -Community Action Programs [CAP]
             -Trickle-down effect
                   -Local government
             -Model Cities, CAP
                   -Budget
                         -Bureaucracy
                         -Benefits to poor
                   -Abolition
                   -Organization
                   -Lack of results
                   -Accountability
      -Reports on President's programs
             -Public ignorance
             -Lead story
                   -Head Start, job training
-Civil rights
      -Theodore Hesburgh
      -School integration
             -Record of South
             -Compared to North
             -Speaking tour
                   -New Orleans
                         -President’s role
                   -Topics
                         -Compliance, compassion
                   -South
                       -49-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                 (rev. May-2010)
                                        Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                -George P. Shultz
                -President’s role
                       -Atlanta
   -Blacks and White Northern liberals
         -Intentions
         -Program implementation
   -President's record
   -Meetings with leaders
         -Arkansas
         -Georgia
         -Southern strategy
         -Interracial makeup
         -Compliance
   -Successes
   -Lack of demagoguery
   -Peaceful implementation
         -Compared to Little Rock [1954]
         -Mississippi
   -Press
         -Desire for demagoguery
                -Racists, “rednecks”
   -"Professional blacks"
         -Public stand
                -Vernon E. Jordan, Jr.
   -President's approach to school integration
         -Champion
         -Effect on education quality
         -Racism
                -Interracial marriage
         -Compared to John F. Kennedy
   -President's record on Southern school desegregation
         -Lack of credit
   -Black votes for President
         -Washington, DC
         -South compared to North
   -Speaking tour of South
         -Press coverage
   -Meetings
         -Lack of conflict
                -Shultz
                                            -50-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. May-2010)
                                                            Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                               -Edward L. Morgan
                               -White House staff
                               -Attorneys
                               -National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
                                [NAACP]
                               -Press coverage
                               -Compared to Nicholas Katzenbach
                  -Parallels with foreign policy
                        -USSR, PRC breakthroughs
                        -Middle East, Europe, Japan
                        -Quiet diplomacy
                               -President’s meeting with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
                                     -Summit preparations
                  -Press relations
                        -Journalists, liberals
                  -President's treatment of blacks
                        -Contrast with Kennedy, Johnson
                               -“Uncle Toms”
                        -Sammy Davis, Jr.

*****************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift during
chronological review 2007-2013]

      Civil rights
            -School integration
                   -President's treatment of blacks
                         -Contrast with Kennedy, Johnson
                                -Sammy Davis, Jr.
                                            -Accommodation in Lincoln bedroom

*****************************************************************

      Civil rights
            -President's treatment of blacks
                   -Contrast with Kennedy, Johnson
                         -Sammy Davis, Jr.
                               -51-

     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                         (rev. May-2010)
                                               Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                          -Publicity
                          -Compared to Theodore Roosevelt, Booker T. Washington
      -Liberals and "professional blacks"
             -Desire for criticism of white
      -Communication of support for blacks
-Press
      -Failures
      -Distortions
             -Reasons
      -Administration's need for dramatization of concerns
             -Jesus Christ’s teachings
             -Harvard intellectual
-President's public image
      -President's view on enhancement
             -Ken Crawford
      -Vietnam War
             -Credit for President
             -Johnson’s place in history
-Vietnam War
      -President's goals
             -Vindication of dead and wounded
             -US role in world
                   -Credit for US
                   -Great Britain
                   -France
                          -Economy
                   Japan
                          -Lack of nuclear weapons
                   -Germany
                          -Potential power
                                 -Lack of nuclear weapons
                   -Abdication of responsibility
                          -Focus on urban problems
                                 -Ghettos
                   -USSR, PRC
             -Sense of pride
             -Press accounts
                   -Joseph W. Alsop, other columnists
-Domestic programs
      -Need for dramatization of President's programs
                                              -52-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                         (rev. May-2010)
                                                           Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                        -Impact on nations' mood
                        -Impact on black children
                             -Davis
                                   -Press relations

       President's golf game
             -Score in 1958
                    -Burning Tree Golf Club
             -Frequency of games

       Gridiron Dinner
             -President's attendance
                   -White House Correspondents Dinner
             -Ziegler

Noyes and Ehrlichman left at 4:34 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

You remember when I was at Camp David and I had a couple of guests and we said at that meeting, and I said, no, that's my name, not yours.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
Hey.
What did I say?
Wait a minute.
Who is this?
You're from Massachusetts, the incarnation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tony, you gotta, oh God, that's a huge one.
That's a huge one.
Very light.
It's a light one.
It's a huge one.
You gotta try.
You don't like my house, do you?
All right, let's see if you're back for it.
Let's just do it.
When we played, the last time we played before father's break was at...
I played pretty good.
No, I wasn't.
The one time that I played with you where I played pretty well was on a burning tree.
Remember the time that I hit the tree on the temple and bounced back in?
I hit a tree that came back.
12 O, the one that goes, you know, a burning tree, let's see, the 10th O goes down here, the 11th is the far tree, 12 is over, it's around the corner, now it's the 13th where you go down, and I hit that tree over here, and it bounced back down into the flat.
We played with Mel there.
That's right.
My God, that's played great, didn't it?
Yeah, he's strong.
Well, that's great, that's great.
I wanted to talk to you about one thing.
That's so funny, you know, I think you're so right about it, you know, people say to me, you know, you're so right about letting these guys get adjusted and they have their own
And not using him as a guest subject.
I had to go back to the hospital.
Oh, sure.
You know what I said?
They had her, you know, in prison for seven years.
And a bad one.
So we had a hold of that.
And, oh, she's two deals a day.
No exercise.
No nothing.
But wasn't it fantastic the way they were disciplined?
Why?
You know, I said to listen to her.
Is there all of the intervals?
Yes, there is.
I read a lesson of discipline that Patriot did.
And you know, at long last, people began to see that it was long and difficult, or maybe we, whatever the stakes, maybe it was worth something.
Because these guys come back, and they're proud.
And I say, well, I've got people who need heroes, and they need them.
And this war, as you know, and I, well, we haven't, and us, but it's not just us.
We've got to find out that every man that served, that served in our appreciation, two and a half may have died.
Of course, every one has died.
Yeah, right.
And everyone is in those damn hospitals.
I know there's another guy I mentioned, Bob, too, about, he's not a man.
He had his advice on what we should do with the way that it came.
Well, one of two things.
Miguel, that Sammy Davis raised, and Tony Mark raised today, too.
He had the idea of something that if nobody's thought through, Hollywood would like to do something.
You know, if everybody wants to, then something should be done.
But the question is how, when, and so forth.
Now, point one, with regard to our own evening out here,
What we were planning is that I'm planning a reception not until June 15th.
They won't be ready for that.
We're waiting.
We're waiting for over a month until after the last one's out.
And then we'll get them all at their watch.
There'll be about 800, 700, 800.
And we'll receive them all.
And then we'll probably have a big tent out here in the lawn and so on and so on.
So this is going to be working damn acoustically.
Now the question is, what kind of entertainment do you give them?
One thought that occurred to me was that you had done it so often that maybe you would put together, not just on your show, but you might put together a top variety show where you would present Bob Hope's last show.
Then that would be an idea.
Now, another thing we could do, of course, we could just have the military, but we haven't thought it through.
What I would like to do is to...
to have Bob Holden keep in touch with you to see what it may mean to get your budget, because it's very important that that be good.
Now, that's the one.
The second point is,
What could be done with regard to a national show, I mean, uh, where, uh, where, where celebs, and by God, I wouldn't get a piece next to me, but, uh, uh, well, maybe two or three, maybe eight or seven, about, uh, where, but not Jane Fonda.
I think we're a national show.
Where?
Yeah, like a modern American show.
Yeah, like a modern American thing.
And having two hours in the prime time, or an hour and a half, you know, like they're specialists.
And say, by the God, this is it.
Now, you understand?
This thing can water out to us.
That can be done soon.
Well, that can be done the 28th of March, and 28th of today, they all get back.
Now, here, what we didn't hear about, you know, Sammy Davis, who has now completely come over to our side, you know, Sammy Davis, he's stuck at the same place we left him.
Big deal.
Oh, boy.
You know what I was going to say?
You know, Sammy Davis had a thing here, and the president invited him to stay in the waiting room, and Sammy was nice about it.
He got up in the morning, and he made the bed, you know, and scrubbed the floor, and he left a note for the president, I don't do windows.
You know, you said three minutes, and I didn't want to, uh, go out of my way.
So, uh, I was just trying to keep up with the guests.
But when you came, they all looked, and they wanted to hear you.
You did a great job.
Martin was great.
You know, you had to talk to him about it.
So I'm sure he should have said hello to you.
That was great.
Well, it's the national thing.
I think a lot of ideas, I was trying to do a television spectacular type thing.
Another way you could do it is do it like we do with the big fundraising dinners.
A thousand dollar dinner, spread your celebrities around, but have a big screen.
and have the base show emanate from Los Angeles, and I would attend Los Angeles, so you could have it properly produced and not have the canner go around all over, but have $1,000 a plate, and everybody's in that, and you could pick up that coal circuit, you could pick up, since it's all deductible, since corporations could have, you could pick up $7,000, $8,000, none of that, and then set up a scholarship fund for kids.
For kids, all kids.
All kids.
Who serve to Vietnam.
Right.
That's a large design deal.
All kids.
Just be the DOW.
All kids who serve to Vietnam.
Right.
Or you do this.
You can say, have it for those who came back.
What I do is a scholarship fund.
A scholarship fund.
all for the 45,000 who were killed in action, for the missing in action, and also those who were injured, for their kids.
Now, that's possible.
Now, another way that it could be done is to do a telephone type of thing, where you go on and have a hell of a big spectacular, and then have, you know, you go on and say, please send in 10 bucks and so forth for this thing, and see if you can get it that way.
That would get anything wrong.
In each instance, I would have 10.
I would have to, I would expect to attend.
And it should be from Los Angeles, because that's where the folks are.
Yeah.
Not here, but most of the people, yeah.
The people that we want on.
The stars.
The stars.
And you could put up better facilities.
Now the question is, which is the better way to do it?
Now, the beauty of the $1,000 is that you get the, you get the establishment in each town,
this country participating, and they get out in their long dresses and they wear it, and everybody will want to come, believe me.
They'll sell it out and have tickets to that live contest because, let me say this, it's before tax money.
The other point is, however, that the other, the nation participates, but after you did this on that, I suppose you could take the film and make it available to the networks for their music.
But I don't think that's the purpose.
You can't do it on network.
You can put it closer and network it also.
Don't do it closer, do it on network.
You can use the network transmission for your screen in the hall as well.
You come to the hall, you see the same thing that the folks at home see, but you also get the dinner and the live action, whatever happens to be there.
What's your advice?
I mean, think about it.
At the time, they'd get a tremendous amount of money.
Yeah.
are so grateful now.
They want to pour out money.
Why not do both at the same time?
Why not do both at the same time?
Why not do both at the same time?
Why not do both at the same time?
Why not do both at the same time?
Why not do both at the same time?
Why not do both at the same time?
And then ask, on it, have a call-in type.
Where do you see it?
Show the bank.
Show the bank.
It's all going to operate.
It's just what you do.
Put the telephone on national television and type in all the numbers.
Type in the numbers.
stuff at the dinners too, you know.
I ate on the dinners too.
It would be a great time.
And you had a few EOWC's dinner.
That's right.
You scattered them all over the place.
Celebrities.
Celebrities.
You had one place that all the presidential representatives, the captain officer or something, the captain officer would be in each order to be upon at Westmoreland.
Right.
Right.
You know, you've got to have that sort of thing.
But I was thinking about how you can do it when you go to L.A.
be there probably the century plus where she has a good question of course they don't go for the same when they come here but i think the people are there in l.a and uh i guess you get more stars it's a lot better
If you do it the east side, your stars are going to get 30 at night in the east and go to midnight.
Here in L.A., you start at 7.30 at night and run till 9.
You see what I mean?
They work.
How come you know more about it than I do?
I got to speak.
We don't want to get out of hand.
We don't want these guys to exploit them.
We want to .
But all these guys who wanted to spend money on like the Ford Motor Company, you know, when they had volunteered to, you know,
Give him a car, give him a car, give him a cell, give him a cell.
They would come.
They'd like him.
That's what they have to do.
That's what you'd be able to do.
See, that's it.
Like, unlike the political centers, they're going to say, Herbert, Herbert, get a donation.
Do not make a vote.
Do not bring in the guys that came back to hold.
Listen to what I'm doing in Denmark.
Look for, basically, the men in the service and serve them enough.
We're all open for the, for those that die, for those that, it's $45,000, about $50,000 basically.
You can spread it around $50,000.
Okay, I'm just able to get along with that.
Disabled when you're up well.
Disabled when you're up well.
Disabled when you're up well.
Disabled when you're up well.
Disabled when you're up well.
Disabled when you're up well.
Disabled when you're up well.
Or the man.
There's no reason not to visit.
The kids still don't qualify for the scholarship.
Yeah.
And so what you're doing is making them get a scholarship plus somewhere else anyway.
Sure.
They might as well make it.
What I'm going to do would be to not make a full scholarship, make a $1,000 scholarship.
That way it'll spread.
That means that it'll supplement whatever scholarship you got by $1,000.
$1,000 is a piece of change.
Good.
That's the word.
What would that mean?
That they didn't have any children or anything?
Well, they would get nothing.
They would get nothing?
That's the kid.
I think it should be, I don't think you could have given it.
Because you can't do it with that expense.
You see, to do that, you've got to do it with a free of any people.
You've got too much money.
That's the problem.
Well, I think this requires .
We'll take a look.
In terms of .
In terms of the .
Let's be in touch with Bob.
What we would want here, this would not be .
Ours here.
It might be .
food part of it.
I mean, I've eaten at Pearson alone, and we're so lucky.
Well, if they do, that's great.
We'll have a half hour or so so that we can get it, because they're all there.
Being at the White House is a hell of a thing, too.
That's really the highest honor for them.
And that show should be one where you can pick up people, really, maybe you can pick up the people that have gone to Vietnam.
We get the date, we get the band, we get Les Brown the band.
That's right.
We were obviously playing for, you know, maybe 70% of them.
Yeah.
And some of those.
We're shooting for June 14th, which is Friday, which fits.
June 14th?
Yeah.
You were out there?
Yeah, he's always on top of the list.
He's got a great description.
Probably got a golf game that day.
He can't break that.
Paul was trying to get me to take up golf again.
I mean, did you see the club?
I mean, I was at David.
Remember that David?
I had this club.
And the president said, is that for me?
I said, unfortunately, it has my name on it.
So I said, but I'll get you one.
But you just sat down.
He's got over in his other office.
He's a big black man.
This is for the band.
I'll bring this.
Wait, wait, wait.
I'll bring it over up here.
Show it to me.
Have somebody bring that flag over.
I've heard a big flag from Massachusetts.
Once you hear that, I think you'll be great.
I don't know what they call those, but it's a great game.
The problem I have, of course, is that we're trying all our best.
But what I've been trying to figure out is the way that you play, what you really can do, you know, you gotta, you know, you can start, I like to play, you can start around 3 o'clock in the afternoon, and, and, uh, if you play, say, in a doosan, you can do it in two, three hours, two, three hours.
I go out, I play when I come out there, and I,
I go out at 3, 3.30, on the left side, whip around nine holes, you know, just to get it going, just to get the blood going.
Greatest thing in the world.
And you would really think it's good for you.
You really do.
I know why.
I know you do.
I wanted to hear it before.
You do it for your panicky medicine, but I want to go to who's supposed to help me.
It's like taking medicine.
You've got to do something.
You end up sitting in here all day, every day, and you can't do that.
That's right.
It is just the exercise, you have to have fun.
That's the point.
And golf, I used to play it very regularly.
But you forget everything else, don't you?
I sure do.
And you get out and fight that thing, you know.
It's marvelous.
It's marvelous.
Trying to rob somebody of a dollar.
That's right.
That's part of the excuse.
The last joke I told the general at Walter Reed
So I walked in and I said, I wanted to make a line.
So I said, do you hear about the, uh, I walked in the clubhouse and said,
I'm the world's loveliest golfer.
The guy said, no, I am.
He said, well, let's match cards.
He said, all right.
What'd you have in the first hole?
The guy said, an X.
And the guy said, you're a one-up.
He almost fell on the bed.
He loved golf jerseys.
You're a one-up.
You're a one-up.
You're a one-up.
Heard the worst punt yesterday on the plane.
The guy came to me.
He said, did you hear about President Two?
He was thinking of retiring, so he went to Switzerland.
He's gonna look at Juan Peron's villa and just find out if two can live as cheaply as Juan.
Oh, jeez.
Well, that's not bad.
That's amusing to me.
I see the peacemakers are gonna demonstrate against you when he's here.
I mean, you know, if we got over it, all the assholes would be out here cheering.
That's certain something.
The attitude is, it's unbelievable.
We're going to protect him, but they're concerned about his coming to Washington.
Well, we'll have him in San Juan, all right, but this town, you know, you can't take another like that.
I want to tell you, that felt good when I got off that float in New Orleans, you know, I was sitting up there like a devil.
I was the king of the morning.
Three and a half hours sitting on that float.
And, you know, everybody was kind of concerned about it.
It was like I felt about you when I had an all-around.
I thought, boy, I'm going to have to ride that parade, you know, with all the jerks around me yelling, oh, they don't want to know how it's worse.
Yeah, and throwing hate.
Oh, yeah.
They, a lot of them.
I said I was reading the tomato cube.
The interest of the cube.
No, no.
One guy threw a thing with the balloons in it, a plastic case.
If it hit his head, it would knock me out.
But it was the president who threw it.
Yeah.
It would hit my chair like this.
The problem out there is that people are a little exuberant.
They're gone.
Half a round of people.
Really are.
Oh.
It's one big, big wake, or whatever they call it, Irish from the Irish, it's a wake, or what's the other one?
Yeah, they really have themselves a ball of iron.
That's the Catholics.
It still is open.
It's been great.
It's 43 priests.
43 priests.
It doesn't sound great.
Everybody, every club has a priest.
This security guy, they put three security guards in me.
He said he walked around the French Quarter.
All the hippies, I think all the hippies that are left were there.
I never saw anything like this.
Just awful looking people here.
He said he just walked around the corner and sniffed it.
You could smell the marijuana.
Yeah, that's true, that's true.
Sure.
That's him.
One place.
Beautiful.
Almost there with that.
It's a beauty.
Well, we will get back to you.
I have eight operations.
I'll see you in about a second.
It's bulky.
It's going to work.
I'm going back at 5.55.
Can I get some?
I'm going to tomorrow night to get an award from the Hollywood television.
And they tricked him.
They want you to draw the crown.
No, but then what did you say?
No, I visited the table.
Well, you name a date.
Ah, yeah, I got you.
But you know, they want to get you to work and also get you to allow them to get a crown.
What do they have to do with it?
It's like this shirt, you know?
I don't know, sir.
It's rather nice.
I don't know, sir.
I still want you to wear it.
That's right.
He wanted it.
That's what she wanted.
You know, I was talking to you, and we were talking about the postcard, and you said to me, I need a second term.
I've got to go through with this product.
Can you make that?
She's been through the day.
She's been through the day.
You must feel like $8,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
They all told me they went.
that they cheered and hollered at the 18th, because they knew these guys were all airheads.
How did each other move on from one?
I mean, did they do this?
And they said, oh, their captain had died.
And I said, they said that was the day we knew we were going to get out.
That was the day.
And the other day, it was December 26th.
You see, we had the Christmas cards, and we're in general pressure in this country now.
We even had that.
It is.
It was two days after that.
It's all over.
That's the way that it happened.
And, uh...
It might not work.
Of course, I mean, we all look like fools.
You know, that's the way it is.
We're heroes.
There was a note that I had to leave.
I looked at it, and I suspect you had no idea.
Otherwise, you're defeated.
Sure.
And we are not going to accept defeat for this country.
And we can't.
They really don't have the leverage.
You know, Lucy Richmer had a bulletin.
And then they come down there and slew these blonde fellows with their eyes.
But they're sitting there crying, all that.
How the hell about they would have been that way if they came back knowing that we, after all the suffering, 45,000 cash, bugged out just to get them back.
If they knew, we struck it out and they're proud of it.
It's really, uh, you know, it's not a top of the letter that, that, that, most beautiful letter.
It's something like the topics of the letters.
Oh, yeah.
He had the moral tone in it.
It's bad.
It's bad, but, uh, he's right.
You know, it's something, you know, you think of the heat you take under your horse, uh, you think of the heat you take under the fire, the time you take under the fire, the time you take under the rest, and the light, man, you think of that over and over.
I really thought they were out of business.
But anyway, I've got to say, I've got to say, and CBS has, and all of you, you've got to follow up on that, but the point is that we now realize that all the heat was really worth it.
It was necessary.
It was necessary.
Who knows?
However, you do know that if we don't hit them, the United States would have been finished as a great power.
That's the way I realized it.
This is why I know Joe and I, most of the Russian people tell the sons of bitches.
And it's like, if I had walked in, like I said last time, if I had walked in and seen Brezhnev in the crowd, the Soviet tanker on my three-way, he would have spit in my eye.
Yeah, just like that.
Yeah, but that's what I said about having a man like you, you know, how lucky we are, because you, you had it in the kitchen with Khrushchev.
You had it, you know, and it's, it was just so lucky.
I played with Clark Clifford about nine or six years ago, a very treaty-backed recital.
Oh, yeah.
And when I finished, I said, well, I probably didn't think about it until Khrushchev.
I said, what are you talking about?
He said, the sonic hand machine was corrupted.
I said, what's the difference?
That's not the idea.
You know, in your own house, somebody's taking a stake out in his own business.
He doesn't look very good.
He's trying to look good.
He's sabotaging, son of a bitch.
He didn't want to do it.
He was delaying the victory.
You know, because he was off, and we hadn't had him off at all.
Believe me.
He was surprised.
Because, uh, I made a 52 decision myself.
I, uh, I just accepted it.
I made it all for it.
I, uh, I marched, and I said, you know, we were in the wild.
I said, I went with it.
And I said, well, the weather's a little tough.
We've got only a little, three or four days.
And, you know, I said, I said, well, you might have, you might have, you know, about 52, but we don't like to lose.
And I said, well, I'm not going to lose without flying.
And I did it.
That's what we had to do.
So you usually, the two of you know, because the weather is so bad, the smaller practice won't get out of the way.
Yeah.
And those two just decimated the place.
And we took out, and it was all over the place.
I was with them in Budapest, and Sullivan, the general, we were investigating.
We, you know, on that date, on that day, I don't know, I think it was the 26th, this group was going over 500 people.
26th of November.
And I've been in four rooms, pilot, bombardier, three, the only ones that didn't laugh.
I told them jokes.
The only ones that didn't laugh were the radar guys.
And I said, why?
And they said, because they're the ones that have the job of killing those symptoms.
And I said, why was it different?
They explained it to me.
They were the guys who were really uptight.
As you know, a lot of them, as you know, a lot of them were very nervous, and some of the kids had been very nervous.
Dad was still, you know, going over there.
Yeah.
Well, they were.
See, we didn't lose a bit until the summer of this year.
We had gone all those, but we never lost one.
Then at Christmas, we lost 15.
But we got 500 of them.
We only lost 4% in three years.
That's not bad.
Not that I've heard a word or two out of that.
You know, the, uh, the, uh, the things, uh, you know, the way they're like that, you know, it's, uh, you can imagine the heat in this place.
But we just have to see it through.
Yeah, but the great thing, you know, you watch those papers, even the Post, Washington Post, they come around when these great things happen.
They've got to print it, you know.
They've got to get on the headlines.
They acknowledge the job, you know, they do.
Even so, they still like it.
Oh, I've got to tell you about the China thing.
Uh, did you hear that we've, uh, Joe and I, yes, we talked about the Joe and I.
And they want to see, actually, you know, they want to see the film of what you did in Russia.
They don't get it, yeah.
Because, but we have, we got our money going, you know, we got our money, we got, we got him in because he's my friend.
He gave you a total of the money because you were my friend, right, on a personal basis.
Yeah.
But he wants to see, he doesn't see that they're, so that they don't know why you, what you want to do there.
So they, so what we'd like to do is to get a film of what you did in Russia.
And so did the Russians.
They hated the Russians.
Well, I think it's going to work.
Oh, great.
Because the Russians show, you know, they were so elated, the Russians.
Because they said the only reason they let me in, they wouldn't let anybody else in at that time.
And they let me in because they knew that I'd be fair with them.
My wife, because all I want to do is go over and show a few things that are interesting.
and get some laughs and talk about it and talk about the people and nothing.
Do nothing but throw a piece.
Yeah, that's right.
That's what we want.
I'm serious.
Now kiss me, please.
Anyway, I want to be sure you do.
We have followed up on it.
We couldn't get it in time.
I want to ask your advice on something.
For nine years, I've been in the market trying to win a group, trying to get KRLA in Pasadena.
This is a station.
I've never approached anything.
Is that a TV?
No, radio.
Radio.
KRLA.
Why the hell would you want a radio?
You're a good thing.
I've got a group like that I had there.
And it's been up for, perhaps, for nine years.
And I, uh... What do you think?
I don't know.
I just, I know they're going to have some oral arguments on it.
And we have the best engineering.
They say we have the best engineering on it.
You sure you want to buy that?
We've been in the market for this, you know.
It's standard.
And they like our engineering and the Orange Group, which, by the way, had Bob Mayhew in it, so there's a little bit of a squirt in it.
western and uh it's a it's a thing that you know
Yeah.
I, Henry, I'm talking here about who, and I told him that you had discussed the matter, you know, his visit with our Chinese friends.
And I told him, and I just want to be sure that I'm correct, that they'd like to see a copy of the film or something.
Is that right?
Well, you've got a film writing.
All right.
Fine.
Is there anything else that you'd like to get from him?
Fine.
All right.
Good.
Fine.
Fine.
Good.
Good.
Yeah.
Fine.
Yeah.
Okay.
Fine.
But you need to let him say precisely what he wants to do.
What he wants to write.
Okay.
All right.
I'll have to do that.
I know the problem.
I just want to be sure we got it.
Okay.
So let her say, I want a little child.
I want to bring two people with me, or three people.
I want to take this, and I want to do this with him, so that he can have a proposition to give that.
I did it.
What?
Let me tell you what happened.
You got a mic like two years ago.
Ask me what time it is.
Oh, that's all right.
Ask me what time it is.
What time is it?
Oh, my God.
I thought you'd be able to see without glasses, too.
They're pretty...
Does it have to be changed each month or something like that?
No, it's not.
I got a Sarnoff dinner.
I did a dinner for Bob.
It's staged, right?
I don't know.
That must be perfect up there for that clock.
That's perfect.
I don't have a chance to give you anything anymore.
Just take that.
And I'll get one from Chuck.
Don't worry about it.
Well, this is something that I do every night.
I do it every night.
You just do it this way.
No, it's great.
It's great.
I got such a kick out.
I never wear a watch.
I have beautiful watches.
And this little ring like that's got to work.
But I'll get another one.
Well, that is great.
That's the best present I've had this year.
Great.
Everybody's doing new things.
I know.
But I want you to have that because you're going to get a kick out of that club.
I mean it.
Right.
But you're starting to talk about your...
Oh, that's so funny.
You know, first I went to Henry Kissinger.
Then I went to George Bush.
Then I went to Bill Rogers, who talked to some of her.
Now I think, well, I've got to go and see you, the man.
So I go to Camp David.
We talk, right?
Now about a month later, Rogers calls me.
He says, you're going to laugh when I tell you this.
I said, what?
He said, you wrote a letter to me.
to the embassy in Ottawa.
I said, right.
He said, what did you say?
And I told him, he said, you said you wanted to visit the Republic of China, right?
I said, that's true.
Oh, yeah.
I did it.
So they looked at it and said, oh, he's a smart ass, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he said, right, I'm going to be the People's Republic of China.
And I didn't apologize for it.
But I said, I want to take my producer and my cameraman
Look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look,
You know what I said to Conrad at the start of the five-day daily mission?
I said, you know, what should I do?
You know, you're going to watch when you push that button and tell it should have time and then give it to the weather.
And they both went.
Good job.
So they had to move away.
No, but you imagine what I'm saying.
It's now 3.30 and the weather outside is 45.
My God, yes.
That would have to be a very perceptive watch.
But we were working.
I think that they'll come.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Don't you play the chorus that we built for you out there?
Oh, I play that, that Clementi chorus.
Oh, yeah, I play that.
I play that.
I feel a little tense if you don't do so many vocals.
It's good, Jim.
It's good.
It's great.
I love that.
Right.
I like to play the beat first.
Did you hear about what I played with Connelly and the Simon?
It was recorded in 1974.
Did you make it?
Perfect.
Do you believe anything like that?
We're partners.
I just got to convince them.
I'll see whether Mr. Kelly can talk if he'd like to see you.
Oh, there he is.
Oh, my God.
That's not an idea.
A very perceptive watch.
Oh, isn't it working?
I think that they'll have it.
Well, if I get there this summer, I might play golf there.
You've got to play it.
You might come down.
Maybe if we did, we might come down and maybe you'd play that old panel of course.
Yeah.
It's very private.
Don't you play the chorus that we know for you out there?
Oh, I play that, that Clementine chorus.
I feel a little tense if you don't lose so many balls.
It's good, Jim.
It's good.
It's great.
I love that.
Right.
I like to play the beat first.
Did you hear about when I played with Connelly?
I had an assignment.
It was recorded in 1974.
Did you make it?
Perfect.
Do you believe a thing like that?
We're partners.
I just gotta convince him.
I'll see whether Mr. Pelley can tell me if he'd like to see you.