Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 14 › Conversation 014-014

Nixon phone call with Colson on Economic policy and Public opinion

Wednesday, November 10, 1971 · 2:34 PM–2:45 PM ET · White House Telephone · 11 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation014-014 on Tape 14 (tape position 00:09:06–00:19:40)StartWednesday, November 10, 1971 at 2:34 PMEndWednesday, November 10, 1971 at 2:45 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 014-014 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417190559 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discussed positive public sentiment regarding the administration’s economic policies based on monitored telephone interviews conducted by Albert E. Sindlinger. They critiqued the complacency of big business leaders, contrasting their pessimistic outlook with the bullish optimism displayed by American consumers. Additionally, Nixon reflected on his recent nonpartisan speaking engagements and the importance of maintaining a leadership posture to effectively manage economic perceptions heading into the 1972 election cycle.

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NARA Description

On November 10, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 2:34 pm to 2:45 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 014-014 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 14-14

Date: November 10, 1971
Time: 2:34 pm - 2:45 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 299-9]

     Albert E. Sindlinger's operation
          -Colson's monitoring of phone interviews
                -Popular opinions

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[Duration: 52s]

     Albert E. Sindlinger's operation
          -Charles W. Colson's monitoring of phone interviews
                -Popular opinions
                      -Political questions
                            -The President
                            -Eugene J. McCarthy, George S. McGovern and Edmund S. Muskie
                            -Support for the President’s re-election

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     Albert E. Sindlinger's operation
          -Charles W. Colson's monitoring of phone interviews
                -Popular opinions
                      -National economy
                            -Wage-price freeze
                -Sampling

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Show the rest of the log (55 more lines)
[Duration: 42s]

     Albert E. Sindlinger's operation
          -Charles W. Colson's monitoring of phone interviews
                -The President’s standing
                -Gallup and Harris
                      -Edmund S. Muskie
                      -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy

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     National economy
          -Henry E. Ford, II
          -Sindlinger's speech
                -Consumers
                -Businessmen
                      -John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson administrations
          -Retail sales
          -Big businessmen
                -Harvard, Wharton and Stanford Business schools
          -Tax Bill
          -Prospects for Christmas

          -Labor union opinions
          -Prices
                -James T. Lynn's work
          -The President's program
                -Popular opinion
                -George P. Shultz

     The President's speeches in New York and Chicago, November 9
          -Content
          -Colson's conversation with Caspar W. Weinberger, November 10
          -Press coverage
                -Ronald L. Ziegler
                -Partisanship

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[Duration: 27s]

     1972 campaign
          -Democrats
              -Public opinion
                    -Presidential candidates

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     National economy
          -Pay Board
                -Meany

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).

Yeah.
Yes, sir.
You were talking about Sendlinger's phones.
Well, I was just going to say it's a fascinating thing.
I recommend it to everybody in the White House because it gets you out of here and gets you away from the ivory tower and lets you listen to what people across the country are saying.
I must have listened in on 100 conversations.
He has a monitor system, and while his gals are placing these calls, you can tune in and listen to the conversation both ways.
And it was really...
Terribly eye-opening to me because the attitude across this country is very, very damn good.
Didn't as bearish as people think, huh?
No.
In almost every way.
But the interesting thing that comes through in all the conversations, when asked about the economic policies and the wage price freeze, the people would say, well, we don't know that we understand it too well, but we think the president had to do something.
There was a problem, and he had to do it.
And he did what had to be done.
And then a wait and see.
Then, well, if it works, it'll be great.
And if it works, it'll be great, which
came through on about 25%.
If it works, it'll be great.
So there's an interesting mood out across the country, Mr. President.
I don't know that one can generalize from 100 phone calls, but it was a pretty representative sampling that I listened to.
It's more than most people get.
Yes, and they don't know they're being listened to, which is an interesting thing.
I mean, they're not saying it because you're there.
Right, but it was really fascinating.
uh but the the very significant thing and of course the volatile thing to us is that uh people think the the consumer thinks the economy is getting better the vast majority of the comments last night were yeah i saw it so that marked the news summary i suppose you saw it but uh henry ford and others were pissing around a little bit did you see that
Yes, I did.
I also... What the hell do they want?
Sindlinger had some interesting things to say.
He gave a speech recently, and they only quoted a portion of it in the news summary, where he said, business is on the edge of a panic.
He then went on to say, the consumer, however, has never looked better.
The consumer and the goddamn jackass businessman don't understand consumer attitudes.
What the...
What the consumer is saying is very bullish.
Here's what Sendlinger said.
They only quoted the negative part in the news summary.
They said, I've never seen businessmen panicking the way they are now.
Why does he think they're panicky?
Because he thinks they're...
Phase two?
No.
Why?
No, not at all.
He thinks that there has a breed of people, a bunch of stupid asses, he said last night.
He said, I have never seen...
He said they had a hundred months.
That's what I feel.
During the Kennedy, the Johnson administration, they had a hundred months where they couldn't make a mistake.
They'd make a mistake, but business was so good it didn't make any difference.
Right.
They got fat, they got dumb, and he said they got complacent.
They don't know how to manage anymore.
He said, Mike, he has 147 business clients.
He said, there are two among them who've got any guts and understanding of what's going on.
The entrepreneur is gone today.
He says in this article, there has been a complete revival of expectations by consumers that there will be more jobs.
But if businessmen continue to panic, creating layoffs, then we'll go into a tailspin.
His theory is that the consumers come back completely.
and you listened you listened to the tone of those voices last night it was it was a hell of a lift for me because the yeah the retail sales seem to be bouncing pretty good did you say or yes sir very good they're they're continuing up uh even if you take automobiles out and i don't know what the hell we more we can do the damn business fellas my god chuck we've held their hands we go to their meetings we've
We've had him into the White House.
We've had him into Blair House.
What in the name of God are we supposed to do?
Well, Sinling is right, Mr. President.
The Chamber of Commerce isn't so bad.
It's the big business guy, isn't it?
It's strictly the big guy.
The little guy who's the shot keeper.
It's frankly, let's face it, the...
the Harvard School of Business, the Wharton School, and the Stanford School of Business, right?
That's exactly it.
And they had it for, as Sundlinger says, they had it for 100 months when they could play golf every day.
Their leader types basically are just gone to pop.
And they're just wanting somebody to do their job for them.
Well, can we do anything about it?
I don't think there is.
Well, I think so.
I think we've just got to start preaching this.
They've got to change.
Well, certainly, I don't know, when maybe the tax bill will get passed one day, I suppose.
Well, I think the consumer is going to save them, Mr. President.
I think the public is going to pull them out of this.
You agree we're going to have a good Christmas, despite what somebody said we weren't, huh?
Well, if you follow the Sinlinger stuff, you sure as hell would think so.
the businessmen get out and sell.
They've got to sell.
There's no doubt about that.
But the money is there.
The mood was awfully good.
You could tell listening to people's voices.
They're not angry.
The only anger, by the way, you could engender is if you talked about labor unions.
Then you could get some people mad.
And the feeling is very strong if we can just put a little bit of spine into some of these fellows.
And maybe after this week with the
With the pay stuff, pay stuff will come out, the price stuff will come out tomorrow.
It'll be all right, won't it?
Yes, sir.
That'll be, I think that'll be reassuring.
The people working on it.
Well, the people working on it are good people.
Jim Lynn is working on that, and I'm satisfied there.
And if we keep this labor thing intact, you see, what has to come across in the country is that you took a tough action.
It had to be done.
Nobody quite understands what you've done, but they don't care because you're doing something.
That just comes through all the time.
Then if it works, the economic issue is behind us because, and when I say works, it doesn't have to work.
It just has to give the impression of movement.
And if people think that it's under control, that it isn't falling apart, and that you're still fighting it very hard, that you're in the vanguard of the fight,
they'll relax and they'll figure, well, it's going all right.
That issue is then absolutely gone.
And then we've got all the benefits that come out of the foreign policy side of the game to play with.
But it really is why this present maneuvering that Schultz and I have been conspiring for.
I played a bit earlier, as you probably read, a very, very nonpartisan line of these.
I didn't make one partisan comment in these little speeches.
At New York, Chicago.
I had to.
I thought it was marvelous.
Oh, it is.
All these goddamn people have said they were going to go out and start on the campaign trail.
How stupid do they think I am?
That's right.
Oh, my God.
You're in that leadership posture right now.
They didn't get down in the grove at all.
They were
They were all right.
Well, Cap Weinberger, I just saw him a little while ago.
He was at the dinner here in Washington last night.
I didn't go because I'd made this date with Simlinger.
But he said he thought you came through in one of the best speeches he's ever heard you make, the one he watched on TV, which I guess was New York, wasn't it?
He was very, very high on that.
on the speech and i think the the press thing i've seen flow from it and the television as well i thought it was it wasn't much of a new in it but i but i was the most important thing is to keep it non-partisan and which just drives our enemies up the wall segway was just chortling he says they're all figuring they wanted they really want me to get into there and start down with the others and you know bitching about partisanship well because you'll build them up of course
well we'll see what goes on today darn it i just hope they mean he stays stays glued well if if i uh by tomorrow night i will know whether we've put this he doesn't if he doesn't as i say it's war let's go
would take a moment well as i say the big that's right and you you'd win no question in terms of the public attitudes yeah not the slightest doubt but why not keep the prices down well anyway that's what we need to do is to is to give people a feeling that right that this is working and that's right we'll we'll we'll keep we'll keep working that end of it sir good thank you mr president

Also recorded on November 10, 1971

  • 014-012 2:27 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 2:27 pm to 2:28 pm.
  • 299-006 2:27 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:27 pm to 2:28 pm.
  • 014-013 2:28 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:28 pm and 2:34 pm.
  • 299-007 2:28 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:28 pm and 2:34 pm.
  • 299-008 2:28 PM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:28 pm and 2:34 pm.
  • 299-009 2:34 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:34 pm to 2:45 pm.
  • 014-015 2:45 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:45 pm and 2:50 pm.
  • 299-010 2:45 PM · 35 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:45 pm and 2:50 pm.

All 56 conversations from November 10, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 014-014, November 10, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417190559). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/014-014 (accessed November 1, 2026).