Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 23 › Conversation 023-056

Nixon phone call with Weinberger on Budget cuts and Higher education

Thursday, April 20, 1972 · 3:15 PM–3:19 PM ET · White House Telephone ·3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Weinberger, Caspar W. ("Cap")Conversation023-056 onTape 23StartThursday, April 20, 1972 at 3:15 PMEndThursday, April 20, 1972 at 3:19 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 023-056 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon directs Office of Management and Budget Director Caspar Weinberger to pursue aggressive budget cuts for higher education subsidies, specifically targeting research funding at institutions like MIT. Nixon argues that these institutions are oversubsidized and advocates for a 'ruthless examination' of federal contracts, proposing that the administration simply refuse to renew them during the upcoming budget cycle. He expresses frustration with resistance from the Department of Health, Education and Welfare and White House staff, insisting that these austerity measures are necessary to control government spending.

  • Budget cuts
  • Higher education
  • National Science Foundation
  • MIT
  • Federal subsidies
  • Austerity
  • Government contracts

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Yes, sir.
This is Cap.
Cap, on that thing I'm going to do, as you know, we're going to do it now, two months from now.
Yes.
I hope you realize how strongly I feel about that.
Oh, I do.
Yes, and I hope you agree with it.
Now, the point that I want to make, however, is that I think your figure for MIT has got to be low.
Let me explain.
We're putting over $500 million a year into that damned...
National Science Foundation.
Yes.
You know, isn't that true?
For the whole foundation, I think that's just about right.
But that's all, all of that money goes to basic research.
In other words, none of that's for laser beams or, right?
No, that's right.
Well, what I want to do is to take that and cut that to $100 million.
But that is not just one institution, sir.
I know it is, but I understand MIT gets a hell of a chunk of that.
They get, as closely as we can figure, approximately $40 million.
Then why can't we cut that?
Well, that was the area we...
But all we got, he said there was only $31 million that could be cut, and my point is that if they get $40 million from the National Science Foundation, we just cut it out.
You see my point?
Because that's all subsidy of teacher salaries.
Isn't it?
Oh, yes.
I think there's a little equipment, not very much.
All right.
We'll just get that.
We can't cut it totally out.
But, you know, I'm thinking of a 50%, 60% cut, you know.
After all, we've got to have an austerity budget next year, and this is an opportunity because higher education is way, way oversubsidized.
They've gotten fat.
And, frankly, I just think we ought to bust them hard.
Well, we're going to have to find plenty of areas to do it, and this is a perfectly good one.
Well, that is a hell of a lot, but it's something in its area.
Well, education generally, you know, is an area that you've got to dig into.
And so I just want you to look over, what I want you to do, I want to look, there's $14 billion of subsidy for education, isn't there?
Generally right, yes, sir.
How much of that is for higher education?
Well, at this point...
point, probably close to about three and a half to four, I would guess.
Well, that isn't very much.
But anyway, you can see what I mean.
You can't knock down the University of California's lab for whatever the hell they're doing and this and that.
But what I mean is that when we're in the piddlywink stuff, I mean like, oh, you know, a
I think some of this transportation and environment stuff is hurt.
But, you know, I want a ruthless examination of it, and we'll just tighten them all up and not renew the contracts.
Fair enough?
That is the way to go rather than any cancellations at this point.
Oh, no, cancellations cost us money, and also they'd say, what the hell are we canceling for?
Now, the point is, though, that the renewal of contracts makes a lot of sense because by that time we'll have our mid-year budget review.
We'll have a lot of stories out that we have to cut the budget.
Pretty frightening, yes, sir.
That's right.
And we'll just go right after these people and knock their brains out.
Now, I've been trying to do this for years, you know, and I've been fought by the HEW and, frankly, some of our people that are close to universities and our own White House staff.
But I'm not going to tolerate it anymore.
I figure that I know we've got to cut a lot of things.
We're going to flush, of course, as you know.
We don't have to.
The Senate is going to do it for us.
The HR1 is dead and probably revenue sharing.
I hope a few other things.
So we'll get some help in those fields.

NARA Description

On April 20, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger talked on the telephone from 3:15 pm to 3:19 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 023-056 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 23-56

Date: April 20, 1972
Time: 3:15-3:19 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Caspar W. (“Cap”0 Weinberger.

[See also Conversation No. 332-21B]

     Education
         -Massachusetts Institute of Technology [MIT]
         -National Science Foundation
               -Budget allocations
                    -Basic research
                    -Cuts
                    -MIT allocations
                          -Cuts
                          -Purpose
                                -Teachers' salaries
         -Higher education
               -Oversubsidization
                    -Need for cuts
               -Subsidies
                    -Amount
                    -Transportation and environment
                    -Cuts
                          -Renewal of contracts
                          -Resistance
                                -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
                                -White House staff
                           -House Resolution [HR] 1
                           -Revenue-sharing

Also recorded on April 20, 1972

  • 023-053 2:48 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:48 pm and 3:08 pm.
  • 023-054 3:08 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 3:08 pm to 3:09 pm.
  • 332-019 3:08 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:08 pm to 3:09 pm.
  • 332-020 3:09 PM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:09 pm and 3:10 pm.
  • 023-055 3:10 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:10 pm and 3:15 pm.
  • 332-021 3:10 PM · 1 hr 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, White House operator, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, unknown person(s), and William P. Rogers met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:10 pm to 4:10 pm.
  • 023-057 3:19 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:19 pm and 3:36 pm.
  • 023-058 3:36 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 3:36 pm to 3:43 pm.

All 56 conversations from April 20, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 023-056, April 20, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/023-056 (accessed September 18, 2026).