Conversation 249-016

TapeTape 249StartThursday, April 15, 1971 at 4:05 PMEndThursday, April 15, 1971 at 4:32 PMTape start time02:10:05Tape end time02:27:54ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On April 15, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 4:05 pm to 4:32 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 249-016 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 249-16

Date: April 15, 1971
Time: 4:05 pm - 4:32 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger

     Donald H. Rumsfeld and Robert H. Finch
         -Trip

     People’s Republic of China [PRC] policy
          -President’s initiative
                -Critics
          -Press reaction
                -Time and Newsweek
          -Kissinger’s meeting with unknown person

     -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
     -Cambodia
     -Finch and Rumsfeld
          -Invitation to Chinese doctors
     -Rumsfeld

Preparations for press conference, April 16, 1971
     -Vietnam War
     -Possible statement on Prisoners of War [POWs]
     -Cease fire
     -Residual force
     -Robert C. Byrd

United States-PRC relations
     -Soviet statement
     -Kissinger’s conversation with Ronald L. Ziegler

Kissinger’s call from Martin [?]
     -Campus atmosphere
     -Edmund S. Muskie
     -Kissinger’s Conversation with Charles H. Percy
           -Senate

Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT] negotiations
      -USSR
      -Summit
      -Deadline

Vietnam negotiations
     -Message to Hanoi
     -North Vietnamese intentions
     -Residual force
     -United States’ objectives
           -Withdrawal
           -Return of prisoners
           -Defense of South Vietnam
     -Laos
     -State Department

Preparation for press conference
     -Pakistan
     -Middle East

                -Melvin R. Laird
                     -Balance
                -Arms shipments
                -Negotiations

     President’s PRC initiative
          -Liberals
           -Peter Lisagor
           -Marshall Green
          -President’s role
                 -Leadership
                 -Kissinger’s Conversation with [Name unintelligible]
                       -Lyndon B. Johnson
                       -State Department
                 -Policy directive of February 5, 1969
                 -Policy directive of May 15, 1969
                 -Relaxation of economic controls, June 26, 1969
                 -Other dates of announcements
                 -Lifting of restrictions
                 -Leadership
                       -Elliot L. Richardson
                 -Muskie
          -State Department
                 -Announcements
          -J. Edward Murray
          -Chou En-lai
          -Chinese
          -Timing

     Kissinger’s press interviews
          -[Forename unknown] Fentris [sp?]
          -Instructions to Kissinger
          -Reaction to news story on Vietnam

Kissinger left at 4:31 pm

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I've pulled together all the things we've done on the planet, all the things we've seen in the universe, and it's good.
I think I wouldn't be a bit defensive.
We've got a hell of a record on this China policy.
These bastards, you know them.
They're not trying to lose me in person.
I don't know.
I was in the ground.
I got hit on the ground.
So I'm just going to...
It's quite difficult.
And they are just very...
I don't know.
I don't know.
They don't have the quietest idea of what's going on.
So that happens.
Let me just talk a little about what we have here.
I'll tell you about their idea about inviting some Chinese doctors over here, and I told them, you know, that's all right.
Coming that way is sort of a nice little touch.
I've also told them that when they, they received the Chinese, then they should just say, that the president would love them, and that would be a challenge, because they've never heard from them.
All right.
Yeah.
Also, the best thing about it is the drug stuff.
It was really good because it seems how you actually operate.
If you say, listen, I'm excited to play, I'll be very excited.
I don't know if that's true.
They like to just because they read more into it than they say.
Yeah, more than I want to play.
Yeah.
I think it was on the ice last week when I broke it and I had to work with it.
Yeah.
That's a door to, well, anybody's got to do something.
Something for the ball, you know.
Well, who the hell else could have done it?
I think what I'm going to do, Mr. President, is I'm going to get this to be done and take some of the, uh, some of the other stuff that you write and give them a listen.
That's a good idea.
Well, incidentally, on this press thing tomorrow, I have a question.
So I told you the prisoner thing is in progress.
I think what we have to say is that
The original problem had our highest negotiating priority.
Our highest negotiating priority that had one name.
One hundred and sixty thousand dollars.
We set forth a proposal, we have sent through probably a private channel so that we will discuss it with many people.
We will discuss it either as part of the collective thing or discuss it with other people.
We will discuss it in relation to the subject matter.
We were retained, uh, we were retained portions before they were released.
Bob heard, uh, was playing at me, and he might have been a bit alarmed.
He would like to be received.
Mr. President, we're out of time.
I hope we'll be able to take some more time.
I think I'm out of time, so it's been a while since I've been able to come.
Of course, it may have just been good.
Did Essence put out a statement today
that should disclose the mask, you know, and the proof that we, America, and China, and so on and so forth.
The collusion between America and China is almost comical, we didn't know.
China would say we were really Russian before, you know.
They were not accusing us, they were accusing Russians, really.
The world is significant as that.
Well, they have to write something, but they don't have to be concerned.
I don't think they have to be concerned.
I don't think they have to be concerned.
I don't think they have to be concerned.
I don't think they have to be concerned.
I wasn't sure if it was going to be the same or I already had heard that, but I heard that, uh, provocative, uh, what do you call it, attack, and, you know, steal guns and stuff.
So, I don't know if it's a little bit of the Russians.
Is this cold, is that?
That's my question.
Oh, let's get ready.
I can't see, but, uh, I'm going to have to stay.
I'm going to have to stay.
I'm going to have to stay.
I'm going to have to stay.
I'm going to have to stay.
Bill?
One of the ones that had asked for your resignation, I bet.
Oh, no.
No, but who put that in?
The student group.
Oh, the faculty of C to get back in the division.
But still, he spoke to a lot of the...
He's the kind of person you want to hear more prayers from at that time.
Yeah, but still, that leaves...
On the campuses, I'm not going to get into much detail about these demonstrations, but I think we've got a point there.
The faculty at Chester will have their eye on it.
ACS will be part of that.
But what you said, Percy, was working around the spirit of the Senate, and he's very proud of that.
If we get that salt sick, we can put it in another tube.
All we need is one more.
One more.
Because if we get one, we'll get salt.
If we get salt, we'll get the sun.
And if we get anything, we'll get salt too.
And the sun.
They just, I don't see why they would want to have the sun and the total setback on everything.
Because if they don't give us salt, we'll just
I just would like to get a feel.
I think before we play our part, it's useful to know what the other side is going to play.
I won't wait for your next question.
I have the residual force.
Just the way I am.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
I have the residual force.
to stop the advancements of the independent self and the conscious people.
That's what I'm saying.
Maybe that's why I want to go over the role of such an intangible effort and the ability to stop the self and the conscious people.
If these other things work, we can organize them for the next six weeks, no matter what they say.
Each is today, each of you is given another one.
They were much more, it was not the usual to do that.
Not at all.
And after we didn't meet up for a week, the state of Jacksonville, I recall not meeting up for a week.
Do you remember, was writing to do it?
It was, it was, we had to.
It was, it was going to be a meeting, second thing.
We had to warn them that they can't, couldn't translate it.
That's right.
The thing is, it's taking too long.
He turns to the other chief and says, that proves you're a great power.
Uh-huh.
Not in my book.
Not in my book.
You don't always turn.
Sometimes a great power kicks you right in the balls.
As you agree.
Let's see.
The other one.
I'm having to deal with this guy a little bit more.
I don't think there's any gain to be made by talking about the Middle East right now because it's too... Is there a point to be made?
I'm glad you might make the point, which led me also to...
They may ask me what's going on.
I may be out.
Sure, sure.
Oh, well, I always say that.
You know, one thing I don't see, you know, one thing that's, to me, I can't get over, you know,
I think the China thing is a more rural area with more bastard liberals.
They're Russian, you know.
They're in the vanguard, also because they got attacked with the laws of China.
And I think that's all of the things I'd like to know, honestly.
I'd like to know the things that, uh, the political side can understand.
You said there's a man who made a political career with the laws of China.
Why is he the one who did it?
I said, read this piece.
How did they make this paper?
I think that's a shot.
I think it is a shot.
I think it is a shot.
I think it is a shot.
I think he wanted to say, I believe I hit this goddamn marching green off the list.
I mean, he's not saying this because he didn't want to walk away with all the remarks.
But from the beginning, China mostly has been personally in charge.
One of the guys had me running and said, well, John, John, he said,
This is the president himself.
He said to me, I'd like to basically pay underprivileged people to some relationship with us.
But every time I make a suggestion to the State Department, they knock it down.
They always tell me what I can't do.
And so I don't do it.
And he said, I didn't say that.
He said it must have been his.
Because I know to this day about these cases, so I said I would say you will afford it or against it.
He said all I can tell you is this was, this is not the presidential leadership.
You can say it.
I think you can do the same thing.
The president has been personally in charge of our channel policy since I became the law officer.
This is an area who goes through this.
On the 5th of February, you ordered a public hearing.
The 5th of February.
I'm sorry.
I received meetings on the 15th of May, but the 26th of June, you redox people and I'll make them grow.
Christmas food, $69.
For all those that I don't need for much more than that, just put it down on the list.
Nervous people, flex your lives.
Be dead.
Cut the implementation.
20 Christmas tonight, the announcement.
Good.
Redox safe.
On the 3rd of August, we had an emergency meeting of the Shire College of the United States.
On the 30th of December, we announced the listing of the district.
The message mentioned Shire has gotten to 70,000 public reports mentioned Shire.
I had a hundred-year background in which I had a space.
If there's ever been one area where the president has been in charge of it before, I've been in charge of this document.
Not only have you been in charge, but this isn't even the case.
And once you had said, of course, I... You said that basically...
I had, but the president... We run this one.
Oh, we run this one.
We run it.
And, for example, one mistake has always made the good time we have.
They gave us a huge shot.
We broke it down into three separate announcements over four months.
This time, at the end, it was another huge one.
But we just picked the five islands that were really in the way.
Least significant.
We got a tremendous drive out of them.
We still got another 15 hours to pick up any time over the next few years.
We need another package.
We've got it already all set in time.
Actually, it takes the greatest debt in our system.
It takes me two times.
One to prepare the boat and the other to go.
Oh, Murray, yeah.
He's the head of the...
They have to put in a phone call to him to apply.
For whatever reason, these guys didn't have to do it.
I'll tell you what, he's going to call me.
Okay.
He's got it.
He's got it.
I don't know what they think.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Watch your mouth.
Don't be too anxious.
Channels are very fun.
We've got just about time.
Actually, if the cat's done it, it shouldn't put much more than half.
It's because we've got two actors.
We've got Spooky and Thor.
Spooky and Thor.
Spooky and Thor.
Spooky and Thor.
Spooky and Thor.
Spooky and Thor.
Spooky and Thor.
Spooky and Thor.
Actually, you can.
I've covered him.
He's smart enough.
You see Benkerson and the rest.
But with old Benkerson, I would mean old Benkerson.
Let me tell you how I think of you.
You're safe now.
You're watching the terrible effect this is having on you.
Now, look, I'm recording, but I want to say something to you.
It's very disappointing.
And the way you handled the Vietnam thing, I think it was shocking.
I think you should say that.
I think it was shocking.
I spent a lot of time on it, and nothing got through.
Now, I frankly didn't really think it was worthwhile to see you this time, but I'm doing it.
But I can tell you that this is it for me here.
It isn't worth our time to talk to you.
I know, but we want them to write it in favor of you.
But you tell them it was shocking.
And you just say, I tell them, no, I want you both to know I'm not going to talk to you about Vietnam anymore.
Why don't you think so?
I would be tough as hell.
They'll respect you more, too.
They know they pissed on us on that story.
And I would just say it was a shocking handle of the story after all the time you spent with me.
Good luck.