Nixon, Finch & Haldeman on Watergate and National Cancer Act of 1971

1:28:18All right, Robert, how are you?
1:28:21Prison?
1:28:21Are you good?
1:28:25It's a plain America.
1:28:27Yeah.
1:28:29America.
1:28:31Bill, where do you last leave?
1:28:32I don't know.
1:46:48I don't know the whole country, I just don't know how to... Do you think he will as a fourth party candidate?
1:46:57Is there anything we can do to help him?
1:47:02Well, let me say this, the one thing, if all our people are stupid as hell, we're not going to be stupid with regard to the use of money.
1:47:11It's far more important to have money that puts McCarthy in the race than money to piss away with some PR for him to do some documentary on me.
1:47:19You see what I mean?
1:47:20Don't you agree?
1:47:23I don't know how you get it to him, and I don't know how he would do it, but what I meant is without getting caught.
1:47:33But in my opinion, in New York, about how McCarthy could make a difference, it couldn't be real.
1:47:40As a matter of fact, because you have less stable political organizations, it's a lot more level.
2:32:51Is that supposed to tell or ask you to withdraw money?
2:32:53No, you're supposed to.
2:32:56The M.C.
2:32:57thought he was going to.
2:33:00Well, he told you.
2:33:01He told my name.
2:33:01I know his name.
2:33:03That's when they told me.
2:33:04Well, we withdraw.
2:33:04Why?
2:33:04Why do you want to withdraw?
2:33:07I thought I was told by one of the secretaries.
2:33:11No, I don't know.
2:33:11The vote was very obvious.
2:33:13The system.
2:33:22I think we've really done enough for Lodge.
2:33:30I think that's a great thing.
2:33:45We can raise the moment here for a minute.
2:33:47Because you've got a thing coming up.
2:33:51Henry Ford wants you to resign.
2:33:55Yeah.
2:33:56He wants you to resign and discuss it with me.
2:33:59And then they're going to have their big awards dinner in February and they want you to give a speech on that.
2:34:09The question is really...
2:34:12Is it worthwhile?
2:34:13A more basic one than that is whether the President is trying to keep a dead horse alive.
2:34:19I guess your argument is still that he has to.
2:34:24There's no real object.
2:34:25There is still a hell of a lot of feeling in this country for volunteers.
2:34:29There's a real question whether it's worth ever making anything out of the National Center.
2:34:32You went away with the President's prestige a decade, two years ago, and argued with him.
2:34:39You should have.
2:34:42The problem is you've got to have enough
2:35:06private money, which is what Ford has done, and we try to keep it, give it a bit of an air of the, like radio PGR, I guess.
2:35:12So you feel it's got to be something, first visibility.
2:35:16Yes, just one more shot, that's, that's, that's the worst thing, and we crank them up, and we've done some great work so far.
2:35:28How can you do, you know, focus in on one physical program that they're used to?
2:35:33I was telling Bob at the LA, I was talking about all of them, and the cancer of them today, they're quite moving.
2:35:39There are 130 of them there, and they cheer, and they cheer, and they cheer.
2:35:42And I was talking about what I'm trying to find in this group, and I went and brought in a copy of them, and I was posing to get a copy of them.
2:35:51And I was like, thank you.
2:35:57Did you take phone calls?
2:35:58Yes, I did.
2:36:00Oh, I was talking about the Christmas telephone call.
2:36:09Anyway, the thing you've done that's pretty cool is we're writing a score.
2:36:11It's a really new script.
2:36:14It's out live.
2:36:16What kind of cancer did you have?
2:36:17I mean, did you want to pursue it or not?
2:36:20Brian, one of those members, he was the guy who presided when you spoke out there.
2:36:29But his thing, now, I just saved this one on the side.
2:36:35He's got a lot of cancer.
2:36:36He said, don't smoke, please.
2:36:39Live clean, all the rest.
2:36:39This guy doesn't smoke, he doesn't drink.
2:36:42He lives a clean life.
2:36:44He's got cancer.
2:36:46Prove that.
2:36:47He should have been a Christian scientist.
2:36:50He did have cancer, too.
2:36:52Mary Baker, I think, did.
2:36:53She'll decide, she's a help, she'll decide where that prize goes.
2:37:28My only point is that the amount of interest that you go to SC and UCLA and the other schools around the country, it's just unbelievable.
2:37:39We all talked about the course we're breaking through, the whole virus approach.
2:37:46We may be, and we are, but we might be.
2:37:49That's why it's worth your staying in.
2:37:51About one thing I think we've got, I don't know what it is, but Elmer and folks dying to be one of that panel of three.
2:38:06It's a real problem because of this business.
2:38:13We're telling him that, we're putting him on the advisory committee.
2:38:16I'm telling him that he's on the inner circle.
2:38:18They're doing that.
2:38:19They've got an old guy doing that sport all the time.
2:38:23Go ahead, Rob.
2:38:24Well, this thing is really tough.
2:38:27Really, I am the medical attorney.
2:38:29I signed the bill.
2:38:33I got all the members of the Senate and House who were there.
2:38:42Well, Congress and the Japanese National Guard came back for the signing ceremony.
2:38:47And who was that?
2:38:49He stood right behind me, right in the middle of the room.
2:38:54Would you spy?
2:38:59Did you think so?
2:38:59Sure.
2:39:00He looked good.
2:39:00We make a mistake when we try to avoid his aircraft.
2:39:03It's much better if we let him in.
2:39:06Let me tell you this.
2:39:06If there was any question about the picture on signing that bill being used, it was decided at the moment that Teddy Kennedy stood behind me in that picture.
2:39:15I knew that at the moment.
2:39:17They see my puss up there making a little crock all the time.
2:39:21They won't use it.
2:39:22We've got better stories.
2:39:23Also, you're the front guy signing the bill.
2:39:25He's one of them all the time.
2:39:26He's standing in the back.
2:39:28What is he doing?
2:39:32We really did this one, I think.
2:39:38I said, no, I said nothing.
2:39:40I said, no, don't trust the bureaucracy at all.
2:39:43I guess my phrase these days is, the miracle is the best thing.
2:39:49Chaos begets us.
2:39:50And preserve it.
2:39:52And we have it.
2:39:53I said, if you get busy, and I said, no, I don't trust the bureaucracy at all.
2:39:58And I said, you would have the total authority to kick people around and say the president took care of it.
2:40:03He will, too.
2:40:03You know, he dropped weapons, balls, you know, all that kind of stuff.
2:40:09Is he coming?
2:40:11I haven't seen him for at least 15 years.
2:40:17I haven't seen him, but I saw him at John.
2:40:22I'm awful glad he's gone.
2:40:29But also, it's the volunteers.
2:40:35on the things that volunteer people to raise money for cancer.
2:40:39I emphasized that point very strongly to the Pro-National Committee.
2:40:41As the government now has committed, the President has committed, the Congress has committed, the government and, what I say, five-sixths of what we do in this country has been done.
2:40:56I don't think it's the blacks.
2:41:26I don't know what to do with this.
2:41:29Well, the thing they were trying to do.
2:41:30Young people, for example, on the volunteer thing, really, really know some of these cops.
2:41:34They're terribly interested.
2:41:36I don't know why, but they are.
2:41:38Well, I do know why.
2:41:39Why is it so important?
2:41:39You know what I mean?
2:41:40You know.
2:41:43Certainly.
2:41:46When they go out, you know, and they, for example, want remedial reading, and I'll give you...
2:41:51I think it's great for young people to do that.
2:41:54This is the way to deal with the long hairs and all that.
2:41:58You think I should grow my hair a little bit?
2:42:03Alright.
2:42:03This is what you can grow on your hair.
2:42:14What do you think?
2:42:16I know I am.
2:42:17Don't you think they look a little, I mean, it's great.
2:42:25People are going, I don't think they're impressed.
2:42:32They're all the people I've interviewed.
2:43:06Connell was telling me that he had gone over and seen that in some place he had swiped and seen a monocle of one of the Prince's cranes, and one of the Prince's cranes, and afterwards they had a ballad, and the Prince was carrying the train all the time because he was still pushing it.
2:43:30And he said, you know, he said to the governor, he said, I, he said, I must thank you very much.
2:44:47You'd be interested to know, when I went to the Kennedy Center last night, they had a play called Story Theater.
2:44:59It's a sort of animized recitation of Aesop's fables and Grimm's fairy tales.
2:45:09done in just great fashion, a little musical combo on the stage that plays sort of a folk rock music kind of music, but really just good.
2:45:19And they act these things out.
2:45:20It's superbly done, completely clean.
2:45:24And, you know, it tells the story of Penny Penny in the sky.
2:45:27Ms. Rice and I saw that.
2:45:28She said it was great.
2:45:29Did she like it?
2:45:30She said it was marvelous.
2:45:31Can I ask a question about that?
2:45:33I want to be sure you follow that one because she mentioned it.
2:45:37somebody that's got in our box.
2:45:39I want to be sure that Alice is working all the time on that, that they know.
2:45:43Do they know they can use that box if they want?
2:45:46Oh, yes.
2:45:46And are they using it?
2:45:48We have an intensive program of use of the box.
2:45:52I want to be sure to choose for all three.
2:45:54Sure.
2:45:55Have you ever used the box?
2:45:55Yes, sir.
2:45:56In fact, we've used it earlier.
2:45:58And isn't that nine?
2:45:59So people love it.
2:45:59Right.
2:46:02We've really got it fixed up nicely now.
2:46:03We've got a little ante in there.
2:46:05We've got a little refrigerator in each box where they keep a little champagne and dendro and stuff so people at intermission can have a drink.
2:46:18That's a joy.
2:46:19That's a real joy.
2:46:20I don't know if he's wanting to or urging to.
2:46:24I think he has.
2:46:29The cabinet has not been super anxious to visit.
2:46:31We're pushing staff to use it to take cabinet and congressional people and all, to keep it huge all the time.
2:46:39Postman, you know, for the people that he moments, he's got a crew working on it.
2:46:45See, we've got the biggest thing in the world.
2:46:49We've got 28 seats every night.
2:46:53Plus two, about six matinees a week.
2:46:56What is the situation?
2:46:57It's kind of like that tag that runs it.
2:47:02You know, he was Stevenson's...
2:47:06He was Stevenson's film manager.
2:47:21He's a real, real bleak McCormick player.
2:47:24He's a bad boy.
2:47:24A bad boy.
2:47:25I guess he's a good McCormick fan.
2:47:27Same family.
2:47:29Chicago.
2:47:29He is a terrible manager.
2:47:32Just very bad at it.
2:47:33Now they're, they're, they've been screwed on.
2:47:40I think they've been screwed on.
2:47:44I think they've been screwed on.
2:47:52Yeah.
2:47:53Pure, pure,
2:48:21Have you seen the White House this year?
2:48:26For Christmas, you better get over it.
2:48:29It is a lot twice as good as last year.
2:48:33Unbelievable.
2:48:34The decorations, the world trees, the lighted trees down the Great Hall.
2:48:39Be sure to go if you want to Caroline.
2:48:45I'll be out.
2:48:50This Christmas season, I've never had a visitor.
2:49:01I think probably we, if anything, probably the oldest that we've called.
2:49:11called him too much time to introduce characters.
2:49:14And we've done it, at least.
2:49:16Well, Sato, I've got a nice little girl.
2:49:20I'm going to take him over to play golf at Annenberg's place.
2:49:23So that would take care of him.
2:49:26Believe me, that's hard work.
2:49:27It's hard work to sit and talk with my mom.
2:49:41Let me know what you can do.
2:50:10It's hard to know what the best thing to do is.
2:50:12It might be better to run around and do this.
2:50:14It's about a certain class, you know, that a lot of our people are going to spend time with.
2:50:19If we can keep doing what we're doing right now, we can keep a lot of California going.
2:50:27We'll be team great, but I question whether you can.
2:50:30In California, though, we've got a lot of heritage to bring.
2:50:32Yet we need a heritage to bring.
2:50:34We've got to get something that will really support that.
2:50:37That's for sure.
2:50:40But we've got to keep Reagan on the track.
2:50:43Yep.
2:50:43Yep.
2:50:43Don't irritate him too early.
2:50:45That's true.
2:50:46What's going to go on, Henry?
2:50:49Well, John went through his story.
2:50:51Henry knew it all.
2:50:52He knew all the part about the... John said this... Henry said, what's up?
2:50:57John said, well, this whole story is taking a new twist.
2:51:04So John started reciting it.
2:51:05Henry got kind of impatient.
2:51:06He said, well, I know that.
2:51:08That confirms what he told me.
2:51:10about the part where Christy Oldman was the one who had given the stuff to Jack Anderson.
2:51:15But I was no surprise to him at all.
2:51:17Then John went into the Joint Chiefs' business, and they hadn't always given the stuff to him.
2:51:24Orvin and all that.
2:51:25And Henry... John thinks Henry already knew him, and was...
2:51:32I wasn't surprised.
2:51:33I think he was surprised.
2:51:35And John, I think, now agrees, as we reviewed it, that he was, that he did not.
2:51:43Henry's reaction was, why the hell would they do that?
2:51:46Of all the people we've played straight with, given everything they wanted, and would have given anything they'd asked for.
2:51:54That's my point.
2:51:55The Joint Chiefs would have had it.
2:51:56He said, I can't understand why they would do this.
2:51:59And that was his total reaction to it, really.
2:52:01As he knew about it, his briefcase was being rifled.
2:52:03Yes, and he was very shocked.
2:52:04John laid it on him, but it was rifled.
2:52:08I don't know if he mentioned his dad pulled stuff out of his briefcase and reported political.
2:52:12He said, you know, he said the political men was a conversation around him.
2:52:15He said, that's impossible.
2:52:16I don't, I don't keep any record of anything.
2:52:19So there's no way to do that.
2:52:25Henry welcomed the idea of a new security officer in the National Security Apparatus, a guy that John Wood put in.
2:52:37He says, I want to close down this liaison office here, let them keep it over at the Pentagon, and I'll call them over when I want them instead of having them in my office, which I think makes sense.
2:52:52Obviously, you gotta get rid of that .
2:53:01He said, what do you do on that?
2:53:03And John said, well, that's the question now.
2:53:07It's in the hands of the Attorney General, and he's got to determine what we do, obviously.
2:53:13He said, Admiral Whelan thinks that we should put the yeoman in jail, and Admiral Mora thinks we should put Whelan in jail.
2:53:20And Henry immediately said, I think Mora should be in jail.
2:53:22And John and I both laughed and said, as you go up the ladder, everybody's going to crucify the guy under him, and nobody will take the blame himself.
2:53:28And Henry was a little puzzled at that.
2:53:35Then he said, you can't prosecute him, can you?
2:53:37Because you have your problem.
2:53:40So I said, well, that's a real question.
2:53:42There's probably both ways.
2:53:43If you don't prosecute him, you've got a guy out with a lot of knowledge.
2:53:49You've got no violation of the law and national security.
2:53:57So I was happy to keep it on my desk.
2:53:59And I don't think he's about to raise the case.
2:54:04It should be off my desk.
2:54:05I should be at home.
2:54:06John and I were both puzzled afterwards.
2:54:08I said, well, now how do you quite?
2:54:09You figure Henry hasn't raised him with anybody.
2:54:11He said, I have no idea.
2:54:12I still don't understand.
2:54:13Oh, my God.
2:54:13I thought it was a matter of course.
2:54:21No, he was bothered by the... And he said, geez, there's so many people around who could do that.
2:54:29That's what...
2:54:30He said, sir, the same thing you did.
2:54:32I have a briefcase there, and I...
2:54:34Make it safe.
2:54:36And again, Admiral Robinson coming in and seeing what's going on early.
2:54:43Working around.
2:54:45You know, it's not doing anything.
2:54:48And whatever you do, you've got to know.
2:54:52And I'll cooperate in every way, of course.
2:54:57In case we can see that.
2:54:59There's certainly an equity in the young chiefs that they've been
2:55:04do this when they are trusted allies.
2:55:08It was that he feels he has to send Haig back to the man by mid-year next year.
2:55:15He can't keep him any longer than that.
2:55:18He intended to bring Admiral Robinson in to save three persons.
2:55:24Oh, no.
2:55:26And he said that.
2:55:27Of course you can't.
2:55:29But he said, that's another scary part of it, is that that's what my point was.
2:55:33Now, he admitted that right out.
2:55:34He didn't try to cover that up.
2:55:36The problem is not how he pinched very hard, really.
2:55:38He said, how can you, what can you do on the prosecution?
2:55:45Do you have adequate evidence?
2:55:47John said, we have a total case on circumstantial.
2:55:52And we have the lie detection.
2:55:55And he said, if you can't use the lie detection, you can't do it.
2:56:01Yeah.
2:56:25You can only stay home for so long.
2:56:27Oh, God.
2:56:29You get tired.
2:56:30You get out of here four days, that's a long time.
2:56:32You've been talking so long.
2:56:35You've got to get back to your people who are more excited.
2:56:43All of us are that way.
2:56:45One of those decorations I found at University, and every year they have a thing.
2:56:50This year they've got, they've got a conference.
2:56:53The details are just really something.
2:56:58That Christmas tree has to be the most beautiful Christmas tree in the world.
2:57:07It's fantastic.
2:57:08It works well for Christmas decorations anyway, and they've done a great job of taking advantage of it.
2:57:20I can spend another direction.
2:57:23And it just proved, you know, they say you have to be there and all that.
2:57:30You just don't have to be there.
2:57:31It has to be there.
2:57:33Oh, sure.
2:57:33But it is essential.
2:57:34And the fact of being in the house is the thing that most of the people that we have to those things have already seen.
2:57:41And also, the other thing, too, is the things I was doing.
2:57:43You know, I was brushing off through this and this and this.
2:57:47Nice.
2:57:52without saying anything to anybody after he finished the physical, the medical, or somebody at the hospital.
2:58:01I must have been towards or something like that.
2:58:04It was just a little Christmas thing to do, you know, Christmas Eve.
2:58:11And I went through a whole batch of ideas with Jared and Amy.
2:58:16Like he did last year when I was doing Gerald or something like that.
2:58:19I was glad he would play any games like that.
2:58:23The fact that you are at the hospital would be a...
2:58:25If you want to do anything at all, that's a chance to do something.
2:58:28I don't think it's necessary to do at all.
2:58:29You know how it is.
2:58:30We've been there.
2:58:31We've been nurses.
2:58:32We've been doctors.
2:58:51You broke a diplomatic channel on a head of state communications.
2:59:22He's all upset about it now.
2:59:26There's one step.
2:59:30There's one step.
2:59:31I don't care how far.
2:59:32I didn't schedule it.
2:59:34I just didn't know where to want to do it.

Nixon, Finch & Haldeman on Watergate and National Cancer Act of 1971

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on December 23, 1971

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