Conversation 310-019

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All right, Robert, how are you?

Prison?

Are you good?

It's a plain America.

Yeah.

America.

Bill, where do you last leave?

I don't know.

I don't know the whole country, I just don't know how to... Do you think he will as a fourth party candidate?

Is there anything we can do to help him?

Well, let me say this, the one thing, if all our people are stupid as hell, we're not going to be stupid with regard to the use of money.

It's far more important to have money that puts McCarthy in the race than money to piss away with some PR for him to do some documentary on me.

You see what I mean?

Don't you agree?

I don't know how you get it to him, and I don't know how he would do it, but what I meant is without getting caught.

But in my opinion, in New York, about how McCarthy could make a difference, it couldn't be real.

As a matter of fact, because you have less stable political organizations, it's a lot more level.

Is that supposed to tell or ask you to withdraw money?

No, you're supposed to.

The M.C.

thought he was going to.

Well, he told you.

He told my name.

I know his name.

That's when they told me.

Well, we withdraw.

Why?

Why do you want to withdraw?

I don't know.

I thought I was told by one of the secretaries.

No, I don't know.

The vote was very obvious.

The system.

I don't know.

I think we've really done enough for Lodge.

I think that's a great thing.

We can raise the moment here for a minute.

Because you've got a thing coming up.

Henry Ford wants you to resign.

Yeah.

He wants you to resign and discuss it with me.

And then they're going to have their big awards dinner in February and they want you to give a speech on that.

The question is really...

Is it worthwhile?

A more basic one than that is whether the President is trying to keep a dead horse alive.

I guess your argument is still that he has to.

There's no real object.

There is still a hell of a lot of feeling in this country for volunteers.

There's a real question whether it's worth ever making anything out of the National Center.

You went away with the President's prestige a decade, two years ago, and argued with him.

You should have.

The problem is you've got to have enough

private money, which is what Ford has done, and we try to keep it, give it a bit of an air of the, like radio PGR, I guess.

So you feel it's got to be something, first visibility.

Yes, just one more shot, that's, that's, that's the worst thing, and we crank them up, and we've done some great work so far.

How can you do, you know, focus in on one physical program that they're used to?

I was telling Bob at the LA, I was talking about all of them, and the cancer of them today, they're quite moving.

There are 130 of them there, and they cheer, and they cheer, and they cheer.

And I was talking about what I'm trying to find in this group, and I went and brought in a copy of them, and I was posing to get a copy of them.

And I was like, thank you.

Did you take phone calls?

Yes, I did.

Oh, I was talking about the Christmas telephone call.

Anyway, the thing you've done that's pretty cool is we're writing a score.

It's a really new script.

It's out live.

What kind of cancer did you have?

I mean, did you want to pursue it or not?

Brian, one of those members, he was the guy who presided when you spoke out there.

But his thing, now, I just saved this one on the side.

He's got a lot of cancer.

He said, don't smoke, please.

Live clean, all the rest.

This guy doesn't smoke, he doesn't drink.

He lives a clean life.

He's got cancer.

Prove that.

He should have been a Christian scientist.

He did have cancer, too.

Mary Baker, I think, did.

She'll decide, she's a help, she'll decide where that prize goes.

My only point is that the amount of interest that you go to SC and UCLA and the other schools around the country, it's just unbelievable.

We all talked about the course we're breaking through, the whole virus approach.

We may be, and we are, but we might be.

That's why it's worth your staying in.

About one thing I think we've got, I don't know what it is, but Elmer and folks dying to be one of that panel of three.

It's a real problem because of this business.

We're telling him that, we're putting him on the advisory committee.

I'm telling him that he's on the inner circle.

They're doing that.

They've got an old guy doing that sport all the time.

Go ahead, Rob.

Well, this thing is really tough.

Really, I am the medical attorney.

I signed the bill.

I got all the members of the Senate and House who were there.

Well, Congress and the Japanese National Guard came back for the signing ceremony.

And who was that?

He stood right behind me, right in the middle of the room.

Would you spy?

Did you think so?

Sure.

He looked good.

We make a mistake when we try to avoid his aircraft.

It's much better if we let him in.

Let me tell you this.

If there was any question about the picture on signing that bill being used, it was decided at the moment that Teddy Kennedy stood behind me in that picture.

I knew that at the moment.

They see my puss up there making a little crock all the time.

They won't use it.

We've got better stories.

Also, you're the front guy signing the bill.

He's one of them all the time.

He's standing in the back.

What is he doing?

We really did this one, I think.

I said, no, I said nothing.

I said, no, don't trust the bureaucracy at all.

I guess my phrase these days is, the miracle is the best thing.

Chaos begets us.

And preserve it.

And we have it.

I said, if you get busy, and I said, no, I don't trust the bureaucracy at all.

And I said, you would have the total authority to kick people around and say the president took care of it.

He will, too.

You know, he dropped weapons, balls, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Is he coming?

I haven't seen him for at least 15 years.

I haven't seen him, but I saw him at John.

I'm awful glad he's gone.

But also, it's the volunteers.

on the things that volunteer people to raise money for cancer.

I emphasized that point very strongly to the Pro-National Committee.

As the government now has committed, the President has committed, the Congress has committed, the government and, what I say, five-sixths of what we do in this country has been done.

I don't think it's the blacks.

I don't know.

I don't know what to do with this.

Well, the thing they were trying to do.

Young people, for example, on the volunteer thing, really, really know some of these cops.

They're terribly interested.

I don't know why, but they are.

Well, I do know why.

Why is it so important?

You know what I mean?

You know.

Certainly.

When they go out, you know, and they, for example, want remedial reading, and I'll give you...

I think it's great for young people to do that.

This is the way to deal with the long hairs and all that.

You think I should grow my hair a little bit?

Alright.

This is what you can grow on your hair.

What do you think?

I know I am.

Don't you think they look a little, I mean, it's great.

People are going, I don't think they're impressed.

They're all the people I've interviewed.

Connell was telling me that he had gone over and seen that in some place he had swiped and seen a monocle of one of the Prince's cranes, and one of the Prince's cranes, and afterwards they had a ballad, and the Prince was carrying the train all the time because he was still pushing it.

And he said, you know, he said to the governor, he said, I, he said, I must thank you very much.

You'd be interested to know, when I went to the Kennedy Center last night, they had a play called Story Theater.

It's a sort of animized recitation of Aesop's fables and Grimm's fairy tales.

done in just great fashion, a little musical combo on the stage that plays sort of a folk rock music kind of music, but really just good.

And they act these things out.

It's superbly done, completely clean.

And, you know, it tells the story of Penny Penny in the sky.

Ms. Rice and I saw that.

She said it was great.

Did she like it?

She said it was marvelous.

Can I ask a question about that?

I want to be sure you follow that one because she mentioned it.

somebody that's got in our box.

I want to be sure that Alice is working all the time on that, that they know.

Do they know they can use that box if they want?

Oh, yes.

And are they using it?

We have an intensive program of use of the box.

I want to be sure to choose for all three.

Sure.

Have you ever used the box?

Yes, sir.

In fact, we've used it earlier.

And isn't that nine?

So people love it.

Right.

We've really got it fixed up nicely now.

We've got a little ante in there.

We've got a little refrigerator in each box where they keep a little champagne and dendro and stuff so people at intermission can have a drink.

That's a joy.

That's a real joy.

I don't know if he's wanting to or urging to.

I think he has.

I don't know.

The cabinet has not been super anxious to visit.

We're pushing staff to use it to take cabinet and congressional people and all, to keep it huge all the time.

Postman, you know, for the people that he moments, he's got a crew working on it.

See, we've got the biggest thing in the world.

We've got 28 seats every night.

Plus two, about six matinees a week.

What is the situation?

It's kind of like that tag that runs it.

You know, he was Stevenson's...

He was Stevenson's film manager.

He's a real, real bleak McCormick player.

He's a bad boy.

A bad boy.

I guess he's a good McCormick fan.

Same family.

Chicago.

He is a terrible manager.

Just very bad at it.

Now they're, they're, they've been screwed on.

I think they've been screwed on.

Yeah.

Pure, pure,

Have you seen the White House this year?

For Christmas, you better get over it.

It is a lot twice as good as last year.

Unbelievable.

The decorations, the world trees, the lighted trees down the Great Hall.

Be sure to go if you want to Caroline.

I'll be out.

This Christmas season, I've never had a visitor.

I think probably we, if anything, probably the oldest that we've called.

called him too much time to introduce characters.

And we've done it, at least.

Well, Sato, I've got a nice little girl.

I'm going to take him over to play golf at Annenberg's place.

So that would take care of him.

Believe me, that's hard work.

It's hard work to sit and talk with my mom.

Let me know what you can do.

It's hard to know what the best thing to do is.

It might be better to run around and do this.

It's about a certain class, you know, that a lot of our people are going to spend time with.

If we can keep doing what we're doing right now, we can keep a lot of California going.

We'll be team great, but I question whether you can.

In California, though, we've got a lot of heritage to bring.

Yet we need a heritage to bring.

We've got to get something that will really support that.

That's for sure.

But we've got to keep Reagan on the track.

Yep.

Don't irritate him too early.

That's true.

What's going to go on, Henry?

Well, John went through his story.

Henry knew it all.

He knew all the part about the... John said this... Henry said, what's up?

John said, well, this whole story is taking a new twist.

So John started reciting it.

Henry got kind of impatient.

He said, well, I know that.

That confirms what he told me.

about the part where Christy Oldman was the one who had given the stuff to Jack Anderson.

But I was no surprise to him at all.

Then John went into the Joint Chiefs' business, and they hadn't always given the stuff to him.

Orvin and all that.

And Henry... John thinks Henry already knew him, and was...

I wasn't surprised.

I think he was surprised.

And John, I think, now agrees, as we reviewed it, that he was, that he did not.

Henry's reaction was, why the hell would they do that?

Of all the people we've played straight with, given everything they wanted, and would have given anything they'd asked for.

That's my point.

The Joint Chiefs would have had it.

He said, I can't understand why they would do this.

And that was his total reaction to it, really.

As he knew about it, his briefcase was being rifled.

Yes, and he was very shocked.

John laid it on him, but it was rifled.

I don't know if he mentioned his dad pulled stuff out of his briefcase and reported political.

He said, you know, he said the political men was a conversation around him.

He said, that's impossible.

I don't, I don't keep any record of anything.

So there's no way to do that.

Henry welcomed the idea of a new security officer in the National Security Apparatus, a guy that John Wood put in.

He says, I want to close down this liaison office here, let them keep it over at the Pentagon, and I'll call them over when I want them instead of having them in my office, which I think makes sense.

Obviously, you gotta get rid of that .

He said, what do you do on that?

And John said, well, that's the question now.

It's in the hands of the Attorney General, and he's got to determine what we do, obviously.

He said, Admiral Whelan thinks that we should put the yeoman in jail, and Admiral Mora thinks we should put Whelan in jail.

And Henry immediately said, I think Mora should be in jail.

And John and I both laughed and said, as you go up the ladder, everybody's going to crucify the guy under him, and nobody will take the blame himself.

And Henry was a little puzzled at that.

Then he said, you can't prosecute him, can you?

Because you have your problem.

So I said, well, that's a real question.

There's probably both ways.

If you don't prosecute him, you've got a guy out with a lot of knowledge.

You've got no violation of the law and national security.

So I was happy to keep it on my desk.

And I don't think he's about to raise the case.

It should be off my desk.

I should be at home.

John and I were both puzzled afterwards.

I said, well, now how do you quite?

You figure Henry hasn't raised him with anybody.

He said, I have no idea.

I still don't understand.

Oh, my God.

I thought it was a matter of course.

No, he was bothered by the... And he said, geez, there's so many people around who could do that.

That's what...

He said, sir, the same thing you did.

I have a briefcase there, and I...

Make it safe.

And again, Admiral Robinson coming in and seeing what's going on early.

Working around.

You know, it's not doing anything.

And whatever you do, you've got to know.

And I'll cooperate in every way, of course.

In case we can see that.

There's certainly an equity in the young chiefs that they've been

do this when they are trusted allies.

It was that he feels he has to send Haig back to the man by mid-year next year.

He can't keep him any longer than that.

He intended to bring Admiral Robinson in to save three persons.

Oh, no.

And he said that.

Of course you can't.

But he said, that's another scary part of it, is that that's what my point was.

Now, he admitted that right out.

He didn't try to cover that up.

The problem is not how he pinched very hard, really.

He said, how can you, what can you do on the prosecution?

Do you have adequate evidence?

John said, we have a total case on circumstantial.

And we have the lie detection.

And he said, if you can't use the lie detection, you can't do it.

Yeah.

You can only stay home for so long.

Oh, God.

You get tired.

You get out of here four days, that's a long time.

You've been talking so long.

You've got to get back to your people who are more excited.

All of us are that way.

One of those decorations I found at University, and every year they have a thing.

This year they've got, they've got a conference.

The details are just really something.

That Christmas tree has to be the most beautiful Christmas tree in the world.

It's fantastic.

It works well for Christmas decorations anyway, and they've done a great job of taking advantage of it.

I can spend another direction.

And it just proved, you know, they say you have to be there and all that.

You just don't have to be there.

It has to be there.

Oh, sure.

But it is essential.

And the fact of being in the house is the thing that most of the people that we have to those things have already seen.

And also, the other thing, too, is the things I was doing.

You know, I was brushing off through this and this and this.

Nice.

without saying anything to anybody after he finished the physical, the medical, or somebody at the hospital.

I must have been towards or something like that.

It was just a little Christmas thing to do, you know, Christmas Eve.

And I went through a whole batch of ideas with Jared and Amy.

Like he did last year when I was doing Gerald or something like that.

I don't know.

I was glad he would play any games like that.

The fact that you are at the hospital would be a...

If you want to do anything at all, that's a chance to do something.

I don't think it's necessary to do at all.

You know how it is.

We've been there.

We've been nurses.

We've been doctors.

You broke a diplomatic channel on a head of state communications.

He's all upset about it now.

There's one step.

I don't care how far.

I didn't schedule it.

I just didn't know where to want to do it.

I don't care how far.