Nixon, Kissinger & Haig on Vietnam War and Operation Linebacker

1:00:30Ron said you did a great job.
1:00:31I was talking to Reagan.
1:00:32Ron said that I won't bother you too much.
1:00:37It's just more important that you spend your time here.
1:00:44Reagan said you'll find a job.
1:00:45I called Ron because it was difficult.
1:00:50because, you know, he was so glad about it.
1:00:51Well, I told him, I said, I don't know about the goddamn letters, the form letter that they saw on the car loan.
1:01:02Then the car loan put him off.
1:01:04Anyway, he understood me.
1:01:04I said, I'm going to fire somebody as a result.
1:01:08He's put out a statement.
1:01:10I didn't know me.
1:01:11What did Reagan say?
1:01:12Oh, he said, it's your finest hour.
1:01:13He said he's dropping everything.
1:01:15He said he's going to get on the telephone with
1:01:20I got a little lair.
1:01:26I told him that he should not go.
1:01:35He should be available to go on tomorrow.
1:01:37I don't think we can have Rogers gone.
1:01:41I think the lair is the one to go on.
1:01:44Peter Cutto.
1:01:48Roger just doesn't have enough fire experience.
1:01:50It's not just what he says.
1:01:52He's so goddamn worried about the Foreign Relations Committee.
1:01:55I want to hide it.
1:01:56Laird can get out there.
1:01:58Now, Laird's lined up now.
1:02:01You know what I mean?
1:02:01He knows.
1:02:02Laird is a patriot.
1:02:03Once you're committed, and Laird is a tough guy, you don't have to worry.
1:02:09Once you've got him put in, he's like a corner draftant.
1:02:13How do you feel about that?
1:02:16I haven't talked to you in 10 years.
1:02:20My oldest got out first.
1:02:26I had this, I must say, depressed.
1:02:43I was about an hour first.
1:02:44I put out the whole record about changes.
1:02:50And I said it took us months to set it up.
1:02:54Yeah.
1:02:57And then all we got when we got there.
1:03:03So, and then, but, you know, they were happy.
1:03:05But if I compare this to Cambodia, they were very respectful.
1:03:09They were solemn.
1:03:12Extremely respectful, didn't you think?
1:03:14I thought so.
1:03:15I thought so.
1:03:15And I kicked his old gates around a little bit, but in a nice way.
1:03:18I said the bouquets were looking at him.
1:03:20They climbed it.
1:03:20They didn't climb it, but they gave him those internals.
1:03:24And he used it, and they had the responsibility for that, sir.
1:03:28And I spoke eloquently about what all the things we wanted to do was reported on to the state.
1:03:43I said it was your finest hour.
1:03:51I can't believe it.
1:03:55I love you.
1:03:58But you wouldn't have brought it up.
1:04:00That's the last reason you can do even single-duty.
1:04:03It's because we have a summit coming up in the Soviet, and we have a summit behind us in the Chinese.
1:04:11We'll say ceasefire, POW, and we'll get out in four months.
1:04:22Now, what in the name of Christ more can you offer?
1:04:26That's what I said.
1:04:27What makes you think they'll accept it?
1:04:30I said, if we only do things they'll accept, we're not saying it's acceptable, we're saying it's just and fair.
1:04:40Listen, I just have to ride harder on this thing.
1:04:49Of course, tomorrow, Danville is supporting my upgrade, and I'm going to all succeed quietly.
1:04:57But they're wrong.
1:04:58They're wrong.
1:04:59And Danville, my support, can't even keep a missile in crisis right now.
1:05:04It's a big loss to California.
1:05:06I should thank God.
1:05:07The main thing is we're going to keep this on until it works.
1:05:37and that's one of the most important battlefields we've got today.
1:05:41Maybe the attacks are building very heavily around the country, and more heavily, the fighting's the other way.
1:05:49They lost the fire base that they had a number of attacks.
1:05:53You know what's happening in the state of those threats?
1:06:02Oh, yeah.
1:06:07or who, hey, I don't think is there yet in the full scale of attack on.
1:06:12And we've got a cable.
1:06:13Are our guys fighting now, or are they out there?
1:06:16They're doing spoiling attacks.
1:06:18And some of the agents yesterday were spoiling attacks, which we did very well.
1:06:25I think also this is going to get this out.
1:06:28He's a great shot in the arm.
1:06:30Bunker, I spoke with you this morning, so we now have to say that he's moving on.
1:06:36Uh, the first airport, two brigades of the first airport division.
1:06:41They'll be out there by Monday, if it's good, to that cable.
1:06:45And the regiment of the second division is in there now, so that we may have a way for them to get quite strong.
1:06:53The guys are fighting, I think.
1:06:56Khantoum, I think, they'll lose.
1:06:58But on the other hand, it's about May 9th.
1:07:01If it takes them two weeks,
1:07:05From there, it will take us three weeks to get down to Claypool.
1:07:07By that time, it's been eight weeks.
1:07:08And come Tuesday, that's all we do.
1:07:09It's before.
1:07:11One thing, Al, I'm sort of a mother.
1:07:12Why don't you have one of those little boys over there to prepare a note of apology or a message of thanking you for the speech you made?
1:07:19I don't know.
1:07:20I heard you made a nice speech.
1:07:23Anybody who supports us on this issue, give them a little message of your career on that.
1:07:35I'd rather see it not passed.
1:07:44I'd rather not see it defeated.
1:08:05Because then they feel they've lost everything.
1:08:06But the best solution would be one in which they eat out all of their passengers' dreams.
1:08:10On the other side, I want you to get out of the room.
1:08:18I want you to share it with them now.
1:08:21I'm not thinking about specific actions so much as the fact that we'll get another hit now.
1:08:33that public support glitches would be a horror.
1:08:37And they did quite a job putting those mines in their crypt in all kinds of ways.
1:08:46Well, they had this box.
1:08:48They had two hours prep before they put the mines in, and they worked over the whole field and all kinds of times on here.
1:09:03Well, you know, to get that BOL down, if they had four months supply, they'll be down in two days.
1:09:09That is true, because we've taken out much of the annoying BOL we have currently.
1:09:15We did it not again yesterday or two days ago with smoke 10,000 feet high.
1:09:21We did a small BOL storage yesterday, and they can't.
1:09:26There's a noise streaming.
1:09:28There's a noise streaming.
1:09:31No, I didn't hear that from Obama.
1:09:32Oh, I just think this is an old, unreasonable shift.
1:09:34I was pleading all over the press about unreasonableness.
1:09:39They said I was going to negotiate.
1:09:41I said there's competition.
1:09:42We'll never be broken on our side.
1:09:43We said we could pursue it.
1:09:46I'm glad I put it out of the sentence.
1:09:52We will continue to pursue it.
1:09:53He said we could ask more of the president, more of the president.
1:10:01I said, no president, no president of the United States will accept him.
1:10:09And I think I made months ago, they can't last.
1:10:11They can't last in the South unless they win.
1:10:12If they don't win in the next month, Mr. President, they are going to crack in the South.
1:10:19They can't.
1:10:19Don't listen to them.
1:10:21Be all right.
1:10:23Don't you think?
1:10:27Now, in the ninth year of the war,
1:10:30They thought they had us on their arms.
1:10:32Now they get the newest bomb to smithereens.
1:10:36They get their fourth block.
1:10:41Just run too quickly over it.
1:10:43Sort of take it over from average people.
1:10:58Mr. President, I demand that you bring this off as I think now as well.
1:11:15Do you have a chance to political structure the country?
1:11:26knowing that Shakespeare read the press in France, which said that the Soviet Union cannot underestimate the American leadership.
1:11:37This is the most decisive president of the United States at the same time.
1:11:45And the dangers of their misreading of the determination would not be underestimated.
1:11:53Mr. President, if you had not, if you had gone to Moscow... No way.
1:11:57...having done nothing, now you can go if they still have you.
1:12:02Yes, yes.
1:12:02Don't kill me.
1:12:04Stay there.
1:12:05Sorry.
1:12:06Either way.
1:12:06If you go now, it's almost easy.
1:12:09If this trip still comes along...
1:12:25When you're there, that's that.
1:12:26That's that.
1:12:27Well, you can correct those to the length of your time.
1:12:33Dr. Rockefeller told me he tried to call last night, and the good boy was absolutely mad.
1:12:47That's the formal request from Harvard to resign here on Earth.
1:12:53Oh, I understand.
1:12:56Right.
1:12:57You were still awake.
1:13:01I hope you were.
1:13:10I hope I was.
1:13:12You know, I don't have to tell you.
1:13:27That's what they do.
1:13:49But there are two problems, Mr. Rogers, Mr. President.
1:13:53One is what he says, the content of what he says, which is usually cowardly.
1:13:58But secondly, the way he says it is so offensive that no one feels.
1:14:01Well, he looks scared.
1:14:03That's the thing I thought.
1:14:04What did you think, Al?
1:14:05Well, I got desperate.
1:14:06Thank God Mr. Ware jumped in.
1:14:08He just told me, and I discussed it.
1:14:13And he took hope right on.
1:14:18You can say some things to yourself if you act them.
1:14:21Well, that's what I do.
1:14:23That's what you do.
1:14:24We have to talk to the daughter.
1:14:27I was talking to Gino.
1:14:28And also, there was no question we would talk.
1:14:39And I think we delivered the speech.
1:14:44But what's best of all the speech is just that
1:14:50Well, they were both rather different.
1:14:57The picture was a little better.
1:15:00They told me my wife was better.
1:15:02The picture was actually a little better.
1:15:09It was a little better.
1:15:10The picture was actually a little better.
1:15:15This one.
1:15:17He really had a great deal on his shoulders.
1:15:24He's proud of you.
1:15:29That's the best decision he's ever seen.
1:15:35He's raving all over the place.
1:15:42Were you able to get any of that in your comments about your colleagues, the boots, and all the other assets that would make Dre a bully?
1:15:50Hardly.
1:15:50Disinterested.
1:15:51No one had more stake in all these things than the president.
1:15:56I went to the law firm.
1:15:59He put two and a half years in only the greatest consideration.
1:16:03He put everything up to the best of the country.
1:16:08Oh, I...
1:16:08The fact that he was drawing half a million
1:16:13and everything to the law for peace, privacy, and comfort, that we have not asked for wrong, and that they answer your justification, and demand, and all demand, and affect, and surrender, or else, what else can we do?
1:16:28By God, we just turn, and we turn now, and what we are going to do, we're going to do.
1:16:36Oh, but he calls last night.
1:16:38He said, already last night, he said, he's proud of you.
1:16:40You've got to see his speech.
1:16:42He never did it.
1:16:44And this morning, you thought what it is.
1:16:47He grabbed my hand and he said, congratulations.
1:16:50He said, the president has done well.
1:16:52Oh.
1:16:53No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
1:17:04Well, basically, let me say this.
1:17:05I was reflecting last night.
1:17:09You know, it's really lost here.
1:17:11It's an old-fashioned word.
1:17:16It's the honor of another person.
1:17:21And it's the future of the free world.
1:17:26It's all wrong.
1:17:26We don't, if we don't hold this on, let's face it,
1:17:34How can they screw this around?
1:17:40That's right.
1:17:55The power plants are psychological.
1:17:56I think it ought to be done sometime this week.
1:17:59I just want to black the place out.
1:18:03Then, you know, that will, if you agree, have a psychological impact.
1:18:07But otherwise, don't go after the secondary part of it.
1:18:10It's PORL and the rail line and downtown.
1:18:13And if it doesn't cut through, or at least downtown takes over, that's...
1:18:17That's how these air wars have usually been lost.
1:18:19If the Germans had kept after one target system in 1940, they would have won it against Britain.
1:18:28But they had the southern airfields nearly knocked out, but they switched to London.
1:18:33I left one thing out in this thing that I think is terribly important.
1:18:37I put it in my mind.
1:18:39The airfields have got to be taken out.
1:18:42That's on the list.
1:18:43That's on the list.
1:18:44Now, the civilian airfields... You don't want to take that out?
1:18:47Not yet, because they've got red-throated flashes.
1:18:51All right.
1:18:52Well, other airfields also, just like Scottham, if you're serious, if you want to use that force, can we knock out those dead airfields?
1:18:58I mean, I know of only for a few days, but that isn't a problem.
1:19:03Well, here they are.
1:19:05They're very controlled.
1:19:06Loads of airfields.
1:19:16Well, I just wanted to tell you that now we depend on you to see that we don't blow this one.
1:19:21And now, and particularly zero-end, zero-end, don't blow these secondary targets.
1:19:27We've done it with the rail lines, we've done it with the POL, and the secondary place, of course, the power plants and the airfields.
1:19:38but there's no lack of excuse now because you have what the military has claimed has never happened before.
1:19:47You've got the authority to do it.
1:19:52I got a call last night.
1:19:55Well, thank you, and just stand up if you do any good with this dentist.
1:20:04Here, we'll get some of that.
1:20:05See, we need the Swedish dentist.
1:20:11All right, now.
1:20:13Carry on.
1:20:15We've got the word now that the fight isn't due now.
1:20:20You, you need more of the public.
1:20:24I mean, of course, you watch these things, but you know what I mean?
1:20:29We're going to have to re-wear you the bones, because I just haven't got confidence in anybody else.
1:20:34To the extent you can, you knock the birds out.
1:20:41And I don't know what the reason is.
1:20:45Well, I don't know what I mean.
1:20:48Let's see.
1:20:54I just...
1:20:58I just...
1:20:58I know you want to get involved and so forth.
1:21:02What in the hell would you do?
1:21:03I don't know how to get involved.
1:21:04He's doing what some captains deserve to know.
1:21:07That is...
1:21:12Yeah, he'll talk to her if we're not going to do it.
1:21:16Now, this is not about the, uh, the opposite of, uh, my disarm, but we can also disarm it.
1:21:23Uh, not quite.
1:21:24This isn't true, is it?
1:21:25No, it's not.
1:21:25Well, it's true or not, but we're all going to get rid of it.
1:21:28This will propose death.
1:21:31Uh, but, uh, well, anyway, that's what it did to the sub-captain.
1:21:33It can't, I mean, that's going to be precept and harm.
1:21:37Well, to me, it's, they can't go back and do these, uh, stuff like this.
1:21:48I'm thinking of people like the Dick Wilsons and the Bill Wrights and the naturally
1:22:17and you can never get over it with all that jewelry on it.
1:22:21I said, yes, I did.
1:22:23I wrote it.
1:22:23He said, you'll get a number of good colors out of it.
1:22:34Kind of a wearing week for me.
1:22:42See what you did.
1:22:43I thought you fused it.
1:22:46the guys because you answered all the questions before and you had a chance.
1:22:49Let her go on there.
1:22:51I was going to say that I agree with you on what you did.
1:22:55I'm not going to give you time, but I'd like to go on a version of whatever happened when you drove.
1:23:05They canceled the summit before then.
1:23:07That's all right.
1:23:07It's a good reason to go out there with my wife.
1:23:10If they don't cancel the summit, I'll go there.
1:23:12That gives a sense.
1:23:13That gives a sense.
1:23:14I mean, because I'll have to be ready to go to bat in the next couple weeks myself, you know.
1:23:21And I just, you know, you need to, because this takes to be a little more out of me than almost anybody except for you.
1:23:30Well, then I don't have, you have to go through the actual concentration of getting out for air.
1:23:35And you've got these media instruments out for air.
1:23:38You've got to play all of these characters.
1:23:42I think you should go because you have some time weeks ahead.
1:23:47And the best resource is to reach you by telephone in 30 minutes.
1:23:53So you probably have to react in a day or two.
1:24:00And my gentleman there doesn't cancel the summit in 30 minutes.
1:24:10That was last week.
1:24:12They canceled, like they say.
1:24:15They really don't care.
1:24:16They do everything.
1:24:18You know, I mean, .
1:24:21They may just do it in Moscow or something.
1:24:36And I may not say so, but I'm not going to go on and do the same thing about the fact that I think you should.
1:24:40I mean, that's very good.
1:24:42You should just probably cut a statement that it may be good for us to just leave it.
1:24:47That's better.
1:24:48That's better.
1:24:49You shouldn't.
1:24:50So what does the statement say?
1:24:52That the State Assembly is going to do what the problem is, and we're prepared to do it.
1:25:37They had me kicked.
1:25:45They're right.
1:25:46They're right.
1:26:05I think it's a good thing that they postponed it in temperate terms and did nothing about the court.
1:26:13I think in a way, it would be terribly upsetting.
1:26:17See, the one advantage of doing it before the summit is that they cannot punish us by casting the summit.
1:26:22They do nothing else.
1:26:23I agree with Connie.
1:26:27If you win this Congress, we're going to know it.
1:26:30The summit doesn't make any difference.
1:26:34And then you'll get the summit anyway.
1:26:36Well, there ain't no reason for them.
1:26:38The other thing is that if we win the contest, and I pardon the song that he lost, we can save this damn country from a hell of an abacus.
1:26:46One other thing I think we have to consider, if there is a collapse of the South, which may not now occur, but if there is, don't we have to consider the land of the North?
1:27:09I would advise the Marines to have them maneuver off the coast of North Vietnam.
1:27:14That's what I would do, because the North Vietnamese don't believe a word you say anymore anyhow.
1:27:21So if you have them run around there, they will think you're landing in Vietnam.
1:27:27Particularly after what we've done now.
1:27:30They just figured you can't go to the sea there.
1:27:36And I offload them on ships, run them around the ship, do exercises.
1:27:49But they're now planning a different commando operation in where it actually may do some more good things.
1:28:05They're trying a helicopter operation behind the North.
1:28:07We can fly in a couple of days.
1:28:10The other way, which would be if they bring it on the other thing.
1:28:18But also, if we last the next month, I think, I would not be surprised if we saw it the last of some people.
1:28:29We can be sure of that.
1:28:34Well, they can't just keep it up, can they?
1:28:38No, they can't.
1:28:39Akron's had 45 B-52s, but his military is the least of them.
1:28:43He's now doing what you asked him to do.
1:28:46It's really boring, isn't it?
1:28:47I think he's shooting at his technical aircraft.
1:28:50He's shooting at his tactical aircraft.
1:28:52Stay shut.
1:28:53I just don't see how they can take that attention.
1:28:55Do you?
1:28:57Well, it's like the great artillery compartments of World War I and II.
1:29:02He's going to drive men out of their minds.
1:29:04Three years ago, he was just able to see.
1:29:09We had to give him a target two days before.
1:29:14Now he's the bird in the light.
1:29:1830 hours more.
1:29:19Is he?
1:29:19He's got 32.
1:29:20He's who you feel better about.
1:29:24So I think, you know, I was a detractor of a...
1:29:26Now, since the last week, it seems to me, by the way, I've caught on to a bunch of these other ones about the command structure.
1:29:32Is that working out now?
1:29:34Just afternoon.
1:29:35Mac is going.
1:29:36Mac is there.
1:29:38I'm about to look it up.
1:29:42It should have been done this afternoon.
1:29:46All right.
1:29:47It's working.
1:29:48Should it be time to go?
1:29:50Yes.
1:29:51Yes.
1:29:51Yes.
1:29:52Yes.
1:29:52Yes.
1:29:52Yes.
1:29:52Yes.
1:29:53Yes.
1:29:54Yes.
1:29:56No, because he said he asked me to run the issue over for him.
1:31:04Do you have a car with you over here?
1:31:06Oh, we showed a very nice rally.

Nixon, Kissinger & Haig on Vietnam War and Operation Linebacker

AI Summary

Audio

Transcript (AI-generated)

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 9, 1972

Cite this conversation