Nixon, Kissinger & Johnson on Vietnam War and 1972 Presidential Campaign

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Well, how did you get along with both of them?

I was wondering if it was useful of you to think that I should get down with Laird more than yourself?

What did Laird answer?

Just to be sure they don't... We've had a reply from Wyatt, and David is the way they can handle it.

And for us, the coolest of us all, you understand, I don't want to force it, but if you...

I watched this every day, and I called Haig, and Haig said he checked it out.

So, Henry, we're not going to let these military guys in our back or something this time.

So you know what I mean.

Hello?

Yeah.

Hello?

Well, how's the weather down there?

Yeah.

Well, I'll tell you, you're lucky you're not in Washington.

It's practically a big one here.

Yeah.

as an adult.

Don't get me that much younger, you know.

I crossed the 60 barrier in January, so we're still in the same game.

Yeah, yeah.

Tommy, do you just get in your car and drive to your very own ranch that way, or do you really enjoy that?

I know you have, yeah.

Are you a

Oh yes, he made a fine sermon on, in which he defended us on Vietnam about a month ago.

Really, he's done, he's a courageous man.

I'm going to go to his church one day, if I can get away.

That's the Christian church here.

Right.

Yeah, I attended the Christian church in San Clemente.

It's a very small, a lot of it is mine.

I sure, I sure will try to, right.

Well, you know, the thing about it these days is that there's so many ministers, you know, particularly, frankly, my equation is the worst, but the Episcopalian, and even a lot of Catholics, you know, going off to defend on this thing, just because they have so much stand-up for what's right.

Right.

Well, I'll tell you, fellows like Cook and Kroll in Philadelphia, they're still stand-up fellows there.

But they're just some of these, some of them have moved in other directions.

Unbelievable.

Well, I want to, what I wanted to call you about is pretty much a personal matter, and I was, sure.

As you know, John Connolly is working on setting up the Democrats for ex-organization.

I wanted you to know what the general format of it is in terms of what it sees.

The only work at the presidential level is to support and ask all the people that will be working with them will be supporting Democratic candidates for the House and State Legislature and so forth.

So much for that.

Now, in setting this up,

He has talked to some people that were very, very close to you.

Well, for example, the Christian.

As a matter of fact, I saw

C.R.

Smith, Glenn Andrius, you know, up in Minnesota.

You're all great friends of yours.

The only purpose of my call is to say that, needless to say, most of them, many of them, would indicate that, and I presume without their agreement, that they would in some way want to check with you, or they wouldn't want to do something that would be embarrassing to you.

And the only purpose of my call is just to say that if it would not be embarrassing to you and if they on their own would like to help John Connolly in this, I would appreciate it.

And I realize you're in, of course, a very different position from anybody else.

For example, we were comfortable when Max Kappelman was going to help and I was going to give him up.

He did not accept me.

And John Kenning, who was doing the same work for

deal with the fact that

You're in a very different position.

I just wanted to be sure that you knew that we weren't trying to, that you didn't want to do anything that would be embarrassing and sort of rave your people in the life of them.

We have a job economy that's putting us on very squarely, and the purpose is only to support the Democrats in the national level.

And frankly, it's mainly on the national defense, national security area that we've been talking about.

So that's what I wanted to tell you.

And so if someone would call you, if you would be able to say that you would not object to it, I would appreciate it.

And I personally understand what your decision is.

No.

He's got a lot of...

Thank you.

One thing Henry was saying to me, we were talking yesterday, and Henry was saying that, you know, we were sort of going over it, and this other column had come out for stopping the Greeks, you know, which, of course, is, you know, better than anybody else, would destroy NATO, would cut off the Middle East oil, would cut off Israel, and all that.

And Henry was saying, you know, the significant thing is that President Johnson, in all the times that we've been here,

has never said a word that has hurt us and has certainly said some things quietly to people that have been very helpful.

And I think President Eisenhower and his relations with you never did anything that would hurt.

And the same is true as her to Hoover, you know.

All right.

Well, I really appreciated your...

Yeah, they did, they did, they did a few, yes.

Yeah.

Oh, sure, part of it.

could you do this uh at first uh well not only your schedule but would you also indicate the airline that she's riding on because uh well what i was thinking if we know the airlines you know we can then if we we can't we can't put people on every flight but uh if she's on an airline

We'll be done.

Sure.

But we'll do that.

As a matter of fact, I'll drop notes to people at the victory hall.

She doesn't understand.

We've all set in Israel.

I think, well, if you would have no objection, I will work out a nice schedule for you.

All right.

Right.

Well, they did.

Oh, they've done a great job.

We can all be proud of our women folks.

If you could get that to us very soon, because, you know, these messages, you know, it takes a little time to get around.

And I'll send a general, I'll send a message personally to Ann Bird, who naturally, our ambassador, maybe over the vaccine, whatever you have.

Germany, we've got a man there.

Paris, Watson, we've got a great fellow in the field, a very good fellow.

Right, right.

And I'll see that these secretaries and FBI are there.

Also, I will see that something like that, you and I, this is enough because we would want to be there.

I think those planes would be well covered with the children.

That's his job.

Right.

If you would have him, if you would have him, I would suggest this, you could have him bring it to, bring it to Henry, because Henry, Henry's got a, he's got a shop where he can, and I'll, and I'll talk to Henry right away.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

We have, we have a way to take care of you.

I think that we want to do this anyway before Paul's in jail.

Put his name down and I'll follow up on it.

Goodbye and thank you.

Take care of yourself.

Bye.

Yeah.

I would think if you had an issue with it, you could even say to the mayor herself that she's commenting on it.

No, I think it's, you know, their judgment maybe, you know.

But I have a feeling, Henry, that the North and the East are taking on a lot of conflict.

The key thing about side divisions in New Jersey, I hope they'll attack.

If they attack with what they've got in there now, and us not, they, even House admits now that next year, no matter what happens, they can't do anything except guerrilla war.

Guerrilla war is their maximum.

Anyway, one thing I want to mention to you, the McGovern people are putting out the word that I'm doing it for political purposes, but I'm talking to people for fundraising purposes now.

That's not true.

But part of it is this abject stupidity of Tav Shriver.

And some of these others, we don't control them.

But I'm talking in New York, the two groups, they're really all strong groups.

One of them is very, very, the other, Rockefeller's rich.

I can't believe it.

Now, they're really all strong groups, but now these idiots tried to envision an invited land government, more respect.

And I think we ought to strip the White House people out of it.

If they want to go and make a pitch later, that's their problem.

And I would like to make a position with, with Raleigh Evans, if you agree, who's got that story that I speak to, if he's true, on the issues.

I don't get involved in fundraising.

Of course, I defend the president's foreign policy, as I have for four years.

But you know, I told you we have nothing to do with the damn fundraising.

We don't need the money.

He says that the Democrats are absolutely panicked because

the erosion, and the Humphrey, all the Humphrey supporters are... Max Campbell was talking about this.

You know, Humphrey's been one of the biggest money makers.

He left.

He left the American government.

The thing is, however, we've got to keep it rolling, and that's my question to Johnson.

I can do a hell of a lot of good in Europe, but I can do the most good by just describing your foreign policy.

Yeah, let me say this in terms of a straight foreign policy thing.

I think that's kind of outdated in Greece.

Well, it's a mixed bag for a liberal crowd.

For anybody that's interested in the future to have it their own.

But I guess that I use it to the Middle East.

Henry, you can't have a Middle Eastern policy without babies in Greece.

Oh, yeah.

Without those babies.

I could make all of those points, but, for example, they tried to destroy them.

They tried to, yeah.

In 1970, how we used Greece as a strategy.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Understand, as you know, I am going to be working politics for now, but at any time, if there's anything you need on the foreign policy front, you get it.

In other words, you need to pull somebody in on something.

Second point, with regard to...

In regard to the president of Italy, we'll make a swing about it.

I think it's going to be good.

That's good.

Don't you think it'd be all right?

We don't give a damn what they have to say.

No.

We just say we haven't met with the Italians, and we feel that we should.

Okay.

Why aren't you surprised?

They said you'd set it up when you're crippled, which is true.

And everybody agrees we should do it.

George Ball.

Tell me this.

How can a George Ball support the government?

That's what I know.

I'm asking rhetorically.

How could he?

He can't support me, but I don't see how he can support the government.

Okay.

Thank you.

Nixon, Kissinger & Johnson on Vietnam War and 1972 Presidential Campaign

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on July 24, 1972

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