Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 789 › Conversation 789-007
Nixon, Colson & Bohlen on 1972 Presidential Election and George McGovern
Saturday, September 30, 1972 · 12:00 PM–12:20 PM ET · Oval Office · 19 min
AI Summary
President Nixon, Charles Colson, and other staff members met to discuss strategies for the 1972 reelection campaign, focusing heavily on undermining Democratic challenger George McGovern. The group analyzed unfavorable polling data and coordinated the use of media surrogates, including popular athletes and sportscasters, to attack McGovern’s credibility and policy positions. Additionally, Nixon directed staff to maintain a firm stance against critical news organizations like The Washington Post and The New York Times, while discussing tactical responses to upcoming political debates.
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Well, I have to leave, but you can't do that.
You can't do that.
Yes, sir.
Radio features?
Yes.
You try Ambassador Boland at the White House.
At the hospital.
Ambassador Boland is at the hospital.
He's...
Well, maybe he didn't have anything on his face, but I'll let me check.
Whiteman Medical Center, Ambassador Charles Bowman.
Now, he is not able to take the call.
I'll talk to his wife, who's probably
which is a real nutbag guy.
He just takes them apart on credibility, because you can't trust a man, and you can't rely on what he said.
And then Hudson is putting out this delightful story.
McGovern, it was the letter that he put out, which was a precise text of a lobbying memorandum by one of the biggest green crack hotels in the National Green Crack Hotel, which to me was, of course, anxious worst day.
Well, what is that?
My God.
I've been listening to it, and now he wants to go out and find Schreiber on the campaign trail and walk into him in a press conference and say, I have a master's in economics, and I'm one of those fat, thick, dull-witted linemen, but I'd like to talk to you about working poor.
We've got coaches coming out.
We've got a sportscaster in Miami called us up this morning.
Sure, and said that he wants to do editorials on the air, and he gave us a recording.
And our people are now running it.
We've got Nick Bonacotti.
Mark is the great, great former Patriot, and now the best linebacker.
And Bob, let's see, Bob Sheridan was the sports guy.
Merlin Wilson.
We've got somebody from the Cleveland Browns.
Browns are excellent.
I don't care what the risk is.
It's only the towns like Cincinnati that we've got.
The Bears, because George Hamilton's a great person.
you're doing the Philadelphia Eagles.
You've got the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Oh, yeah.
That'll help there.
The Rams, of course, with the 49ers.
Oh, yeah, Joe Morgan, who was a team service president in Texas.
He played for the 49ers at Lyon.
But I was thinking of the, and also the Vikings.
They gave you a blanket.
Let's get the Vikings to go.
It's catching on.
It has to be followed up, Chuck.
Oh, yeah, no.
This is one that we're
who gave me his weekly report called in this morning.
He said, Jesus, you've really got time to go.
And he said, these football players debating with McGarvey.
And he said, that's absolutely genius, because he said, the football players have all been to these colleges.
He said, my roommate is from Nebraska.
And he said, we've been listening to this on the radio.
uh he was one of those referred to as a big line well i told that i i told company when he called me about the church and he thought it was incredibly stupid ass i did not i told
face-to-face.
And he ran away.
Oh, yeah.
Well, he may have tried to look very bad.
Then, of course, we have a debate coming Monday between McGovern and Hagin.
McGovern speaks to the UPI editors in the morning at 9 o'clock to 9.30 with full press coverage.
And in the afternoon, UPI editors and the vice president speaks at 3 in the afternoon.
So if you can, we'll listen in the morning and then we'll try to make
the most effective counterpoints.
And I think this will, I believe the networks will give this a major play.
In other words, it's the first time they've had Agnew and McGovern on the same platform.
We want to be very careful to handle it just right.
Her client is, I don't know if I should do that.
No.
I said, with me going there, I said, with McGovern going there.
Oh, because of me.
Yeah, sure.
Would you agree?
It's a disaster.
What's Agnew doing?
What's perfect with Agnew?
He's out, and he comes second, and he...
being compared to the striker who was an ass.
Yep.
Although I noticed that Pierce in the Wall Street Journal, the son of a bitch in the Los Angeles Times, I would say he's made thousands of votes for the son of a bitch in Kansas.
Right.
No, no, no.
Oh, yes.
No, and I'm getting reports from places he's been.
In fact, we don't know.
Just digging around, we used to think Truman was an ass in 1948.
people.
This guy is... No, this guy is...
He's no dignity.
No question.
He's got dignity in class.
Yeah, I think he has... Really, I... For me, send that gay liberation thing, a copy of that to B.D.
Raposo.
I guess I...
He said that you put a little color on it for yourself.
I thought you would be interested in joining what's being circulated here in the D.C. area.
What the opposition is doing.
We understand what the opposition is doing.
It's on the day wire.
It's probably the same place.
The wire services use it.
Yeah, report it.
There is a part of them.
So that's the wire, you say?
No, no, no, the city wire.
The wire just, you know, they post announcements of events, and we manage to get it on there.
I don't know, if there's a little bit of, if there can just be a little trouble there, then the press will have to cover it.
Well, mainly, if I've got a nice answer, say, I'm very nice to the Gators,
Then he loses both ways.
That's right.
And we've got some games for us.
Oh, yeah, but we don't have to start away.
But they don't have to come to our side.
about the goddamn queers and the thugs and the, they don't call them gay lib, they call them the fruits of fruits.
That was something in the news so late this morning.
And this is what got Vito Marzullo.
I mean, he's marvelous when he's said that.
Oh, beautiful profile on him.
You know, the 72 years I was with him.
Right.
They're trying to stay whatever he is, and he's enthusiastic with the president.
He's just in question with less than two choices.
Are they wrong on that?
Totally not.
Yeah, I think.
Are they?
Yeah.
It's interesting how they're just reaching like hell.
Doug Heller went into the bar in Inland Square, Cambridge, last night.
The local bar.
Inland Square.
After the lawsuit.
Well, it's near the lawsuit.
Now, Inland Square is a blue-collar working area.
It's away from the middle school.
It's on a subway line to it, but it's an archy-bunker neighborhood.
He said he went to the bar last night, which he did just to see, and he said, nobody's talking about this.
He brought it up, and he said, anger towards the government, and
I was wondering if you were in the hospital.
I was having a little dinner for, here's a private dinner for Miko and Camp David on Monday.
And I was wondering if you'd come.
They said you were sort of out of combat at the moment.
But I want to wish you the best.
And when you do get back, I hope we can have a visit.
Well, you've done so much for the country, and I think back to that time that we were, as I've often said before, when we were on the Queen Mary and you briefed the Herder Committee, we were all dummies in foreign policy.
What a lovely thing to do.
Not particularly when he's no friend of mine.
No, that's right.
He's no enemy, particularly.
I mean, what I mean is, he would be for me, as I guess I'm a guy from the 50s, Eastern establishment, liberal.
He helped us on the ADN.
And he died.
But it's a lovely thing to do.
That was a lovely thing.
We do a lot of that.
We never tell anybody.
We should.
Well, that'll get to the State Department establishment for whatever good that does.
No, is it?
People will hear about that.
You know, I've heard the shocking news that Bill Rogers is going to dedicate the goddamn state to the Washington Post building.
He's going to what?
Dedicate the new Washington Post building.
When?
I don't know.
Bob Haldeman got an invitation, a great invitation.
Oh, my God, yes.
Well, it's a stupid thing to do.
Sure.
He represented them.
He wants to do it again.
Sure he did.
Bill is a good guy.
He does many good things, but he sure places about them.
There's some things you don't do.
Post has been vicious and brutal.
What they're doing to John Mitchell...
the staff and so forth.
The same is true of the Times.
Anybody from now on, because anything from the Times will be fired.
I will fire them off of the staff.
My feelings are that I haven't gotten an invitation to watch him post-education.
I don't know why they didn't have Bob Holder's name.
They called him William Holder.
Holder.
I think it was him.
I think it was him.
I'd like to go to the demolition of the building.
If you know about intelligence, you've got to see Gallup.
They've got intelligence.
In the first thousand, they've got intelligence.
In the first four, they've got intelligence.
They've got intelligence.
Now, Photoshop, they don't have intelligence.
They don't.
Well, it's just coming up one by one.
I know.
They know what they're doing.
They've known it all week.
And other clients, too.
60-34?
Well, 60-34 is the stop.
On which station?
So, as far as 60-34, there's that one.
Chuck, these ships are on the project.
I'm one of the clients with the retail products.
Well, there is no check in this state.
Well, I know, but I'm saying that they're wrong.
They're cheating.
Before you go, I'd like to talk about the leadership amendment for money and money.
This is for a certain amount of time.
This is good.
It's a special, yes, money flow.
Right.
Step down, step.
That's good.
That's fine.
Excellent.
Excellent.
I don't believe there's any movement that's put...
I mean, it may be, but my point is, I would just like to let our own people know that there is something in the record that moves like an ecstasy in the Harrisville area.
Isn't that great?
Well, actually, it's not like you guys do.
Yeah, but they all said they... Well, a whole people got off one and they were going to go out in the hall.
You know, and she fucked her sail.
And she took the 6.2.
You know what that is?
The old one?
The 6.2.
Well, 6034, in my mind, cannot be right because my government is not that high.
I would say...
I would say...
Assuming it has to be 62...
I think Gallup and Harris are going to be pulling the trigger.
And I think they're doing it for a good reason.
I think Harris agrees with Gallup.
Harris admits it.
Harris says, Chuck, this has never been a presidential election.
He said, this can't be a mistake.
And he said, I don't want to see it all cave in on you at once.
He said, I...
He said, I'm putting a lot of weighting in on the young people, and he said, I'm putting a lot of weighting in on the young people.
And Harris is going to be in the field next Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
I'll have Friday morning after the results.
He said he's going to not get too far from the center.
That old man is...
That old man is crazy.
On the other hand, he's not dishonest.
No, I don't think he's in there every July.
Well, never.
He tells us we're going up and we're going down.
Yep.
And, oh, and a year ago he was telling us you're dead on the account.
But, no, I sent Howard to listen.
I mean, he sat in his office.
He thought, well, isn't he dead?
And there's too many other signs from around the country.
All the time.
On these local trains and...
That's five weeks ago.
Yeah.
Well, if he had the capacity to recover, if he had the capacity,
Then he began to be concerned if there was a steady movement.
But he didn't have that capacity.
He did not.
Now, this stuff that Harris is putting out for Monday's briefing is just murder.
I mean, this... On the profile.
On the profile.
Holy smokes.
Two to one that he doesn't inspire confidence in the president, sure.
And then goes on to show how, you know...
Think of it.
59 to 22, we will be, seems to be making too many mistakes that raise doubts about these judgments.
This stuff is murder.
And anyone who reads this figures this guy's a dead, absolutely dead person.
This is the opposite.
This is precisely what we've got to, we've got to contrast it in here.
The conclusion is that this is the way to market people's view of the event.
This is almost, I don't know, I don't know what I said.
I don't know what I said.
I don't know what I said.
Oh, no.
You've got to go right forward.
That's all.
That's a nine, keep the surrogates on a surrogate's mind.
But those radio speeches will look like a nightmare.
That's why it's only better if they're in agreement.
Well, we have a follow-up to the mail.
Well, they failed.
We could have come up with two different ones.
Oh, yeah, that's true.
It's tremendous.
And it's all good.
Yeah, it's all good.
Great agreements.
Mary Connor is on the week.
Great next week.
Listen, now, of course, we have some week.
I think we're going to have to be even more creative.
We're talking about jobs.
We're going to need jobs.
NARA Description
On September 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, White House operator, Charles E. ("Chip") Bohlen, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:00 pm to 12:20 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 789-007 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 789-007
Conversation No. 789-007
Date: September 30, 1972
Time: 12:00 pm - 12:20 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Charles W. Colson.
The President's schedule
-Camp David
-Radio speeches
-Raymond K. Price, Jr.
The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 12:00 pm and
12:05 pm.
[Conversation No. 789-7A]
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
[See Conversation No. 30-37]
[End of telephone conversation]
*****************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 03/11/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[789-007-w001]
[Duration: 8m 57s]
1972 election
-Campaign surrogates for President
-September 29 and 30, 1972
-Elliot L. Richardson
-Attacks on George S. McGovern
-Credibility of George S. McGovern
-James D. Hodgson story
-Letter from George S. McGovern to grain lobby
-Memorandum from grain cartel
-Support for President from professional sports figures
-Merlin Olson
-Campaigning in California
-President’s description of campaign style
-Desire to debate R. Sargent Shriver
-Economics master's degree
-Potentially debate R. Sargent Shriver on issue of the working poor
-George S. McGovern welfare plan
-Favorability for President
-Other possible campaign surrogates
-Coaches
-Woody Hayes
-Miami sportscaster
-September 30 1972 conversation with Charles W. Colson
-On-air editorials for President
-Nick Buonconti
-President’s opinion
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-Howard Twilley
-Bob Sheridan
-Merlin Olson
-Player for Cleveland Browns
-President’s opinion on useful football team surrogates
-Washington team
-Cincinnati Bengals
-Chicago Bears
-George Halas
-Pittsburgh Steelers
-Philadelphia Eagles
-Pittsburgh Steelers
-Los Angeles Rams
-San Francisco 49ers
-Joe Morgan
-Minnesota Vikings
-Previous gift to the President
-Usefulness of sports figures as surrogates
-Douglas L. Hallett
-September 30 conversation with Charles W. Colson
-Weekly report
-Debate between football players and George S. McGovern
-Roommate from Nebraska
-Popularity
-Similarity to Thomas E. Dewey's statement
-Engineer
-R. Sargent Shriver's previous statement
-Describing football players
-John B. Connally's reaction
-As a former football lineman
-News coverage
-Myles J. Ambrose’s reaction September 28
-Effect on R. Sargent Shriver
-George S. McGovern’s schedule
-October 2 1972 debate with Spiro T Agnew
-October 1 1972 speech to United Press International [UPI] editors
-Spiro T. Agnew's schedule
-October 1 1972 speech
-Patrick J. Buchanan
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-Listening to George S. McGovern speech
-Come up with counterpoints for Spiro T. Agnew to use
-October 2 debate between George S. McGovern and Spiro T. Agnew
-Handling
-Herbert G. Klein
-Proposal that President debate George S. McGovern
-Advantages of Spiro T. Agnew
-Spiro T. Agnew
-Campaign style
-Opinion of Charles W. Colson
-Media comparison to R. Sargent Shriver
-President’s opinion
-Richard Pierce
-Wall Street Journal
-Los Angeles Times
-R. Sargent Shriver
-President’s opinion
-Comparison to Harry S Truman in 1948
-Contrasts to Harry S Truman in 1948
-Comparison to Spiro T. Agnew
-Dignity
-Class
-Gay Liberation event
-Flyer sent from President to Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo
-Washington D.C. area
-Flyer sent from President to Robert Abplanalp
-Wire news service coverage
-News coverage of controversy
-Problem for George S. McGovern
-Disavow support for LGBT community
-LGBT supporters of President
-Closeted
-Reaction from organized labor
-Symbol
-Compared to Pledge of Allegiance
-Reaction to LGBT community
-Reaction from Vito Marzullo
-R. Sargent Shriver
-Media coverage
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-Douglas L. Hallett
-Visit to Ingman Square, Cambridge
-Bar
-Blue collar area
-Law school
-Archie Bunker
-Area’s attitude towards 1972 election
-Dislike for George S. McGovern
-Support for President
*****************************************************************
The President talked with Charles E. (“Chip”) Bohlen between 12:05 pm and 12:11 pm.
[Conversation No. 789-7B]
[See Conversation No. 30-38]
[End of telephone conversation]
Bohlen
-Relationship with the President
-George S. McGovern
-Eastern Establishment
-Liberalism
-Anti-ballistic Missile [ABM] assistance to the President
-The President's recent telephone call
-Publicity
-State Department
William P. Rogers's forthcoming attendance at Washington Post building dedication
-H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman's invitation
-White House staff attendance
-Possible firings
-Cabinet attendance
-Alexander P. Butterfield’s forthcoming telephone calls
-Rogers
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-Former representation of the Washington Post
-Washington Post
-Treatment
-John N. Mitchell
-Watergate
-The President
-New York Times
-White House staff cooperation
-Possible firings
-Invitations
-Colson
-Haldeman
-Building demolition
*****************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 03/11/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[789-007-w002]
[Duration: 59s]
1972 election
-H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman’s conversation with President
-Gallup polls
-Poll standings
-Mechanics of poll
-Polls
-October 1, 1972
-Breakdown of numbers
-Potential of a shift
-Opinion of Charles W. Colson
*****************************************************************
Alexander P. Butterfield entered at an unknown time after 12:11 pm.
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
The President's schedule
-Republican Congressional leadership meeting, October 2, 1972
-Frank T. Bow
-John W. Byrnes
Butterfield left at an unknown time before 12:20 pm.
*****************************************************************
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 03/11/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[789-007-w003]
[Duration: 4m 29s]
1972 election
-Poll standings
-Potential shift
-Opinion of Charles W. Colson
-Comparison to Harris poll
-California
-George S. McGovern standings
-Opinion of Charles W. Colson
-Undecided voters
-Estimation of Sindlinger results
-Gallup and Harris polls
-Narrative of pollings
-President’s opinion
-Louis Harris
-Skepticism of own poll numbers
-Weighting youth voters
-Presence in the field
-October 3-5, 1972
-October 6, 1972 meeting with Charles W. Colson
-Comparison to Sindlinger
-Albert E. Sindlinger
-Age
-Sanity
Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542
-Honesty
-President’s opinion
-Volatility of polls
-Conversation with Charles W. Colson in 1971
-Charles W. Colson’s conversation with Douglas L. Hallett
-Lack of change in poll numbers
-Buffalo, New York
-George C. Wallace
-Gallup polls
-President’s estimation of numbers
-Two-way race
-Dwight D. Eisenhower's 1956 election standings
-George S. McGovern
-Staffers
-Possibility of recovering in polls
-Harris profile polls
-Voter perceptions
-Opinion of American public
-Effect on voters
-President’s reaction to certain polls
-Effect on campaign strategy
-Appearances
-Radio talks
*****************************************************************
Issues
-Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty [SALT] agreement
-Trade agreement
-Maritime agreement
-US-Soviet trade deal
-Timing
-Jewish reaction
-Jobs
The President and Colson left at 12:20 pm.Also recorded on September 30, 1972
- 789-006 10:56 AM · 28 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Alexander P. Butterfield, Henry A. Kissinger, White House operator, Raymond K. Price, Jr., and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:56 am to 12:00 pm.
- 030-036 11:52 AM · 1 min — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman and Raymond K. Price, Jr. talked on the telephone from 11:52 am to 11:54 am.
- 030-037 12:00 PM · 36 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:00 pm and 12:05 pm.
- 030-038 12:05 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles E. ("Chip") Bohlen talked on the telephone from 12:05 pm to 12:11 pm.
- 180-001 1:05 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 1:05 pm on September 30, 1972 and 9:22 am on October 3, 1972.
- 180-002 1:05 PM · 11 sec — Julie Nixon Eisenhower and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 1:05 pm on September 30, 1972 and 9:22 am on October 3, 1972.
- 180-003 1:05 PM · 22 sec — Julie Nixon Eisenhower and Nelson Pierce talked on the telephone at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 1:05 pm on September 30, 1972 and 9:22 am on October 3, 1972.
- 180-004 1:05 PM · 12 sec — Julie Nixon Eisenhower and Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo talked on the telephone at Camp David on an unknown date, sometime between 1:05 pm on September 30, 1972 and 9:22 am on October 3, 1972.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 789-007, September 30, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/789-007 (accessed October 21, 2026).