Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 6 › Conversation 006-172

Nixon phone call with Connally on National Debt and Refinancing

Wednesday, July 21, 1971 · 2:39 PM–2:42 PM ET · White House Telephone · 3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Connally, John B.Conversation006-172 on Tape 6 (tape position 04:02:46–04:05:35)StartWednesday, July 21, 1971 at 2:39 PMEndWednesday, July 21, 1971 at 2:42 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 006-172 ↗

AI Summary

Secretary of the Treasury John B. Connally briefed President Nixon on a routine $5 billion national debt refinancing plan that included the first-time issuance of 10-year bonds at a 7% interest rate. Connally acknowledged that the move would likely trigger political criticism from Representative Wright Patman and others due to the interest rates, but argued it was necessary to extend the debt's maturity profile. President Nixon expressed his support for the strategy, affirming that the Treasury should proceed as planned to manage the debt effectively.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Hello.
Mr. President, I have Secretary Conley calling you.
Yeah.
All right, thank you.
Hello.
Yes, hi.
We have to do a refinancing, which is normal in its scope.
I wrote you a note about it yesterday, the day before, of about $5 billion.
This is just normally a routine thing, but today we think we're going to announce that we're going to use the authority which Congress gave us earlier this year to issue...
some bonds in the 10-year time frame, 10-year bonds.
This will be the first time we've used the authority to issue bonds longer than seven years at more than the 4.25% interest rate.
We'll put them out at 7%.
And then we're going to have to discount them a bit to make them marketable.
But I wanted just to tell you about it.
I don't think we've talked about it.
We've met with all our investment bankers committee.
We've met with the American Bankers Committee.
But I sure didn't want to do it without you just knowing about it.
I think it's fine.
I think it's all right.
I'm going to be criticized by Patman and Royce.
for issuing these 10-year bonds at this rate of interest, but hell, this is what the rate of interest is, and we got to finance this debt.
Yeah, yeah.
But I just wanted to know.
Well, there's nothing, you mean it's the only way you can really get the money, I guess.
Oh, yeah, oh, yes.
Now, we don't have to issue the 10-year bonds, but we're issuing only probably half a billion of 10 years.
We think that's all that will be taken up.
Does it have an effect on interest rates generally?
Well, no, we don't think so, and we've been arguing about that for two hours.
And the reason we're doing it the way we are is because we don't think it'll affect.
As a matter of fact, we think it might have.
They all argue that it'll have a salutary effect on long-term rates.
I don't think so, but all the financial experts think it will.
I don't.
But I don't think it'll hurt it.
Right.
We don't have to issue it, but out of the $5 billion, see, we again are crowding too much of our debt in too short a period of time.
I see.
We've got to get some of this debt over a longer span of time.
This is why we fought so for the authority.
Right.
But even so, we won't put out but probably half a billion out of the $5 billion refinancing.
Sure.
It won't be but 10% of it that will go in the long-term 10-year time frame.
But I don't think there's any problem with it at all.
I'll take some flack because of it, but I want you to know it because we're using this authority for the first time.
Sure.
Well, you've looked it over, and if that's the thing to do, that's what we'll do.
Fine.
All right, sir.
And I'll see you at 3 anyway.
3 o'clock.
Right.
Right.
Okay.
Thank you.
Good.

NARA Description

On July 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John B. Connally talked on the telephone from 2:39 pm to 2:42 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 006-172 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 6-172

Date: July 21, 1971
Time: 2:39 pm - 2:42 pm
Location: White House Telephone

John B. Connally talked with the President.

[See Conversation No. 264-11]

     Refinancing of national debt
          -Ten-year bonds
               -Interest rates
          -Wright Patman, Henry S. Reuss
               -Possible criticism

          -Interest effect on rates

     Connally’s upcoming meeting with the President

Also recorded on July 21, 1971

  • 264-011 2:39 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John B. Connally met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:39 pm to 2:42 pm.
  • 006-173 2:43 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Haakon I. Romnes talked on the telephone from 2:43 pm to 2:47 pm.
  • 264-012 2:43 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Haakon I. Romnes met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:43 pm to 2:47 pm.
  • 006-174 2:47 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:47 pm and 2:53 pm.
  • 264-013 2:47 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:47 pm and 2:51 pm.
  • 264-014 2:47 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:47 pm and 2:51 pm.
  • 541-002 2:52 PM · 2 hr 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Willie J. Usery, Jr., Stephen B. Bull, Stephen B. Bull, John B. Connally, George P. Shultz, John D. Ehrlichman, Charles W. Colson, George H. Mahon, White House operator, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:52 pm and 5:04 pm.
  • 541-001 2:53 PM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Miss Lund (secretary to J. Curtis Counts) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:53 pm to 2:54 pm.

All 37 conversations from July 21, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 006-172, July 21, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/006-172 (accessed October 27, 2026).