Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 16 › Conversation 016-082

Nixon phone call with Burns on Discount Rate and Federal Reserve

Friday, December 10, 1971 · 4:36 PM–4:42 PM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Burns, Arthur F.Conversation016-082 on Tape 16 (tape position 03:08:38–03:14:02)StartFriday, December 10, 1971 at 4:36 PMEndFriday, December 10, 1971 at 4:42 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 016-082 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Federal Reserve Chairman Arthur F. Burns discussed the Federal Reserve's reduction of the discount rate to 4.5% to signal a more aggressive stance on economic expansion. Burns urged the President to appoint a new Federal Reserve board member to resolve regulatory deadlocks, while Nixon promised to prioritize the matter after his upcoming meeting with French President Georges Pompidou. The two also discussed the need for future consultations regarding concerns that the Pay Board and Price Commission’s current policies were hindering economic recovery.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Dr. Burns.
Yeah.
Yes, how are you?
Oh, Arthur, how are you?
I'm fine.
Yeah, you called me earlier, but I was in signing the tax bill.
Yeah, I know.
Look, I wanted you to know.
That was a good result, too.
We reduced the discount rate today.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good.
What is it now?
Four and a half?
We got it down to four and a half percent.
Four and a half, yeah.
And, and, uh...
typically when we reduce the discount rate or make a change we merely say that we've made a change in order to bring the discount rate in line with market conditions right right this time we said that we're doing it partly for that reason but also to
further economic expansion good good good that's what you put out in the statement we put out a statement on that and that'll be in the press tomorrow and i thought you'd be pleased good it's good and you know that comes the same day we signed the tax bill which is good right and i did that for another reason i'm having a meeting of my open market committee on tuesday oh you are i see and i put them on notice through this action that i want more aggressive
steps taken by that committee on next Tuesday.
Good, great, great, great.
Well, you can lead them, you can lead them, you know.
You know, you always have now, so just kick them in the rump a little.
Okay?
Look, another question, Mr. President.
We're running into difficulty with the board.
We're all right on monitoring credit policy, but on regulatory cases, and we sit as a court,
The unregulatory cases, I have a divided board, and I need another board member promptly.
Cheryl hasn't resigned.
I know that.
I've really been so tied up in this.
I know that.
Well, basically India, Pakistan, a few other things.
But I'll tell you, I'll get at the thing just as quick as soon as we get back from...
from the Pompidou, which will be Tuesday night, Tuesday afternoon.
I'll get at that and see what the situation is.
I know Malek is checking the thing out.
He's got your fellow.
He's got some various people, but I will get at it.
I promise you.
I just haven't
come across my desk yet, or at least I've asked them not to give it to me because I knew I didn't have time to decide it.
Right.
Well, good.
But I'll get at it, I promise you.
You'll have some action next week.
Thank you very much.
All right.
Let me wish you a very fine and successful trip.
Well, let's hope for the best because this is, I was just talking to John Connolly, and we feel the French meeting is, and you know that too, is very important to the success of the others.
Oh, yeah.
So if we can break the logjam with the French...
We don't know, but that's going to be, we feel, primarily a political decision on Pompidou's part.
So that's what we're looking at right now.
Well, I've done my very best.
I've worked hard to prepare the French on trade issues.
I know, I know.
That's what John was saying.
I've told the French.
They've got to give us something.
I told the French they can't get anywhere unless they do.
Right, right.
Well, I know that's good, too.
I'm very tough with them.
And we're going to present it that way to them, too.
But you've emphasized to them that they can't get anyplace without giving something on trade.
Exactly.
Well, that's good.
That's great.
Well, we'll keep you posted.
As you know...
If anything breaks on this, it'll be of enormous importance to everybody, but John, of course, is all set to, if we get any sort of a break.
The French announcement could be very important.
It might not.
I hope it will, but if we make a breakthrough, we'll be in touch with you immediately.
Well, I hope...
But don't expect it on Monday.
We meet Monday and Tuesday.
You know this will mean a great deal to the business community.
They are...
Yeah, they sort of already expected it.
They're awfully worried.
And when you get back, I want to sit down with you and talk about the pay board and the price commission.
We have some very, very real problems.
Yeah.
I don't think we can delay very long in dealing with the pay board and the price commission.
I see.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Well, we'll have a chance.
You know what you're having?
The payboard is going overboard with high increases.
The price commission is being very, very tough.
And business firms are being squeezed.
This is holding back recovery.
I see.
I see.
Well, we ought to talk about it when I get back.
We better have that thing.
I want to talk to John about it.
You know, the Coastal Living Council sits there and is supposed to talk about these things.
Well, you know, the Coastal Living Council, Mr. President, is not doing a damn thing.
They come there with a bunch of deputies, they sit around, and they're not doing a thing.
Now, that's perhaps a harsh description, but it's not very far from the truth at the present time.
So you think there has to be a step in.
Well, we'll get together when I get back, and that'll be next week.
Yeah, because time is getting short.
We want this economy going.
Right, right, right, right, right.
Okay, okay.
We'll be back, and thanks a lot for calling.
Yeah, bye.

NARA Description

On December 10, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Arthur F. Burns talked on the telephone from 4:36 pm to 4:42 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 016-082 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 16-82

Date: December 10, 1971
Time: 4:36 pm - 4:42 pm

Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Arthur F. Burns.

[See Conversation No. 636-8C]

     Tax Bill
          -President’s signature

     Discount Rate
          -Reduction
               -Amount
               -Reasons
                     -Market conditions
                     -Economic expansion
               -Statement
          -Open Market Committee
               -Burns’ forthcoming meeting

     Federal Reserve Board [FRB]
          -Credit policy
          -Regulatory Cases
               -Need for new board members
                     -William W. Sherrill

     President's schedule
          -India-Pakistan War
          -Georges J.R. Pompidou
                 -Forthcoming meeting

     FRB
           -New appointee
                -Frederick Malek
                     -Assignment
           -Timing

     President’s schedule
           -President's upcoming meeting with Pompidou
                 -John B. Connally
                 -Significance
                 -Burns’ efforts
                       -Trade concessions

                -Connally
                -French announcement
                -Timing
                -Business community

     President’s possible meeting the Burns
           -Pay Board
                 -High increases
           -Price commission
                 -Effect of policy on business
                      -Impact on recovery
           -Connally
           -Cost of Living Council [COLC]
                 -Burns’ criticism
           -Timing

Also recorded on December 10, 1971

  • 636-005 4:05 PM · 43 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:05 pm and 4:07 pm.
  • 086-002 4:07 PM · 6 min — during the Signing of the Revenue Act of 1971 (HR 10847), President Richard M. Nixon, Russell B. Long, Wallace F. Bennett, Clinton P. Anderson, Herman E. Talmadge, Carl T. Curtis, Jack R. Miller, Robert P. Griffin, Wilbur D. Mills, John W. Byrnes, Jackson E. Betts, Charles J. Chamberlain, Herman T. Schneebeli, Al Ullman, James E. Smith, Larry Woodworth, Thomas Vail, John B. Martin, George P. Shultz, Clark MacGregor, William E. Timmons, and Warren McEleney met in the Cabinet Room of the White House from 4:07 pm to 4:18 pm.
  • 636-007 4:07 PM · 15 sec — unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:18 pm.
  • 636-013 4:07 PM · 27 sec — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:18 pm.
  • 636-008 4:18 PM · 52 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, and John B. Connally met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:18 pm to 5:11 pm.
  • 016-080 4:20 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Walter H. Annenberg, and John B. Connally talked on the telephone from 4:20 pm to 4:27 pm.
  • 016-081 4:27 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and John B. Connally talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:27 pm and 4:36 pm.
  • 016-083 4:42 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:42 pm and 5:15 pm.

All 75 conversations from December 10, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 016-082, December 10, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/016-082 (accessed October 12, 2026).