Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 38 › Conversation 038-062

Ehrlichman & Gray on Watergate scandal and E. Howard Hunt

Sunday, April 15, 1973 · 10:16 PM–11:15 PM ET · White House Telephone · 2 min

ParticipantsEhrlichman, John D.; Gray, L[ouis] Patrick, IIIConversation038-062 on Tape 38StartSunday, April 15, 1973 at 10:16 PMEndSunday, April 15, 1973 at 11:15 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 038-062 ↗

AI Summary

John D. Ehrlichman calls Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray III to advise him on how to handle testimony regarding a sensitive envelope containing E. Howard Hunt’s materials. Ehrlichman encourages Gray to maintain that the documents were irrelevant political papers, cautioning him against providing inconsistent testimony that could expose them to broader legal risks. The discussion underscores the escalating pressure and confusion surrounding the White House's efforts to manage the fallout from the Watergate investigation.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Hello.

Mr. Gray.

Thank you.

John Ehrlichman again.

I've been giving some thought to our conversation.

I just don't think there's any way, anything but level on this if you're asked.

There's just too many collateral facts.

If it's the fact that that was just full of stuff irrelevant to any business of the Bureau, why, you know, that's reason enough.

Well, that's what I was told, but I didn't look at it, Jeff.

Right.

I just don't see how you get yourself crossways in the testimony in this thing for fear you get caught up in it.

I just encourage you to just state the facts.

I stated, uh, straight away, you know, that he, uh, at no time did he indicate that this was from Hunt's material.

Yeah.

Oh, I see.

I see.

He didn't know where it came from.

No.

I see.

Yeah.

Uh, just that it was papers that he wanted to turn over to you.

Yeah.

I see.

Yeah.

That they were purely, uh, political things and had no bearing on the subject at all.

Mm-hmm.

I think if I were you, I'd stick to that.

I obviously can't tell you what to do, but I was a little troubled by our conversation, and I didn't pick it up fast enough when you said that.

So I just thought I'd better call you back.

Yeah, I don't know all the other collaterals there are that are involved in this.

Well, it's moving so fast, I'm frank to confess I don't either.

hesitate to get crosswise on something of that kind.

I'll talk to you later.

Okay.

Bye, Pat.

NARA Description

On April 15, 1973, John D. Ehrlichman and L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:16 pm and 11:15 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-062 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 38-62

Date: April 15, 1973
Time: Unknown between 10:16 pm and 11:15 pm
Location: White House Telephone

John D. Ehrlichman talked with L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III.

     Watergate
          -Envelope to Gray
               -Need for truth
               -Contents
                     -E. Howard Hunt, Jr.
               -Information from John W. Dean, III
               -Collateral evidence
                                               -36-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Also recorded on April 16, 1973

038-056 8:26 PM · 18 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:26 pm and 9:15 pm.
038-057 9:17 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:17 pm and 9:39 pm.
038-058 9:39 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry E. Petersen talked on the telephone from 9:39 pm to 9:41 pm.
038-059 10:16 PM · 19 sec — John D. Ehrlichman and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:16 pm and 11:15 pm.
038-060 10:16 PM · 2 min — John D. Ehrlichman and L[ouis] Patrick Gray, III talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:16 pm and 11:15 pm.
038-061 10:16 PM · 14 sec — John D. Ehrlichman, White House operator, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:16 pm and 11:15 pm.
038-063 10:16 PM · 24 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:16 pm and 11:15 pm.
038-064 11:45 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry E. Petersen talked on the telephone from 11:45 pm to 11:53 pm.

All 56 conversations from April 16, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 038-062, April 16, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/038-062 (accessed October 26, 2026).