Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 44 › Conversation 044-145

Nixon phone call with Ford on Veto power and Legislative strategy

Wednesday, April 11, 1973 · 12:35 PM–12:39 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ford, Gerald R.Conversation044-145 on Tape 44StartWednesday, April 11, 1973 at 12:35 PMEndWednesday, April 11, 1973 at 12:39 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 044-145 ↗

AI Summary

President Richard Nixon and Representative Gerald R. Ford discuss the administration's recent success in sustaining a veto, noting the strong support received from both Republican and Democratic members of the House. Ford suggests that the administration should pursue strategic legislative compromises, specifically regarding the Older Americans Act, rather than maintaining a rigid stance on every issue. Nixon tasks Ford with discussing these potential compromises with John Ehrlichman at an upcoming White House reception to ensure the administration continues to achieve its policy goals without unnecessarily exhausting their legislative allies.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Yeah.
Hi, Jerry.
There wasn't a thing to tell you about that, except, as you know, to tell you about your failing to get a majority on that veto.
I mean, you fell short.
Well, our guys did a hell of a job.
They sure did.
You know we're having a party.
Tomorrow night, 5.30, and I'm invited.
And if you don't mind, if you can stand it, I'm going to have 35 senators here, too.
You mind?
Oh, sure, yeah.
We'll put up with them.
36 of them.
36.
Well, I think it's a great idea.
Well, I thought we ought to get—you see, remember, we had a group down in those that supported Vietnam.
A lot of this will be the same.
And we won't do it.
We can't do it every time, but I think they'll all know that they've enlisted in the battle for the duration.
That's what I want them to get their feeling on, on this darn thing.
We got 28 Democrats, surprises like Eddie Boland and Bob Gimo, but...
This is damn good.
And also you've got 163 Republicans.
That's right.
And we had about four more.
Bob Price, for example, was with us, but then when we had a good margin, we told him to go ahead.
Sure, I understand.
A couple of others.
Our guys did a great job, and they're proud of it.
That's the main thing.
You know, the best thing, Jerry, is to get in a good fight and win one, and then fellows are proud.
That's right.
And they're even proud when they lose, you know.
That's the point.
But the main thing is they've got to fight.
Right.
I'll make one comment now.
Sure.
The Senate did a good job last week, and I think we...
The House did this week.
Now...
I'm getting some overtures from the Democrats.
Well, let's compromise on some of these other things.
Now, I'm told, and I've seen it over in HEW on this Older Americans Act, that Kurzman is just adamant against any compromise.
I think we can get at least three-quarters of what we want on the older Americans.
And I tried to call John Ehrlichman, and I said, John, let's not just say— Have you talked to him?
I had to go out of town before he called back.
I'll talk to him.
If we could get three-quarters of what we want on these things, then I think we've not only done the right thing politically, but we've also substantively achieved a hell of a lot.
And I just hope that John and the others will be a little...
Right.
It's hard to put your folks to the sword every time.
That's right.
I mean, you can do it a couple of times, but they shouldn't do it with the administration in concrete on everything.
Yeah, I get your point.
Okay.
I'll talk to John to talk to, well, it isn't, yeah, I see.
But we'll try to see what can be done.
I don't know myself.
I haven't looked at it yet.
No, of course you wouldn't.
But I will see on the details.
But Al Quee says we can get the older Americans at least three-quarters of what the difference is.
And if that's the case, I think we win and everything.
Incidentally, John will be at this thing tomorrow night.
Why don't you buttonhole him there?
I'll let him know what you want to talk about.
You buttonhole him, will you?
All right, I will, Mr. President.
Good, good.
All right.
Thank you very much for calling, and I appreciate it.
Why don't you go home to Grand Rapids?
Good God, you couldn't lose, you know, if you shot your... Oh, I wouldn't have fought like hell on a panel on welfare against...
five others who were all the bleeding hearts, and then I went and made a speech to the law enforcement officers at 9.30 last night.
All right, all right.
Well, that's why you always win.
You never forget the home folks.
Okay.
Thanks, Mr. President.

NARA Description

On April 11, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford talked on the telephone from 12:35 pm to 12:39 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 044-145 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 044-145

Date: April 11, 1973
Time: 12:35 pm-12:39 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Gerald R. Ford.

[See also Conversation No. 893-16A]

       Vote sustaining a veto
             -Thursday afternoon reception
                   -Reception for Vietnam supporters
             -Democratic support
                   -Edward P. Boland
                   -Robert N. Giaimo
             -Republican support
             -Robert D. Price
             -Republicans' attitude
                   -Partisanship

       Democrats' desire for future compromises

       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542

             -Older Americans bill
                   -Stephen Kurzman
                         -Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
                         -Refusal to compromise
                   -Gerald R. Ford's talk with John D. Ehrlichman
                         -Pushing administration’s agenda
                   -Albert H. Quie's opinion
                   -Ford’s meeting with Ehrlichman
                         -Thursday afternoon reception

       Ford's visit to Grand Rapids
             -Schedule
                     -Welfare panel
                     -Law enforcement officers

Also recorded on April 11, 1973

  • 893-011 11:50 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:50 am and 11:51 am.
  • 893-012 11:51 AM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Gregorio Lopez Bravo de Castro, Henry A. Kissinger, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:51 am to 12:02 pm.
  • 893-013 12:04 PM · 25 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Roger E. Shields, Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:04 pm to 12:29 pm.
  • 044-144 12:29 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:29 pm and 12:34 pm.
  • 893-014 12:29 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:29 pm and 12:34 pm.
  • 893-015 12:29 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:29 pm and 12:34 pm.
  • 893-016 12:34 PM · 1 hr 38 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, Gerald R. Ford, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:34 pm to 1:20 pm.
  • 044-146 1:20 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:20 pm and 1:28 pm.

All 31 conversations from April 11, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 044-145, April 11, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/044-145 (accessed October 23, 2026).