Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 138 › Conversation 138-010

Nixon phone call with Haldeman on Eagleton controversy

Sunday, July 30, 1972 · 1:06 PM–1:32 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 25 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Conversation138-010 on Tape 138StartSunday, July 30, 1972 at 1:06 PMEndSunday, July 30, 1972 at 1:32 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 138-010 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 648452429 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and H.R. Haldeman discussed the political fallout from the Eagleton controversy, strategizing on how to best exploit McGovern's perceived weakness and avoid appearing to attack Eagleton directly. They also touched upon President Nixon's potential attendance at Senator Ellender's funeral and the logistics of sending a film to Governor Wallace. Additionally, Nixon received advice from Al Capp regarding his campaign strategy, specifically to avoid direct campaigning and instead focus on his presidential image.

Eagleton controversy
McGovern campaign strategy
Presidential image
Funeral attendance
Al Capp advice
Campaign strategy

Audio

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This clip of the conversation was cut from the tape by the National Archives (catalog record ↗).

NARA Description

On July 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 1:06 pm to 1:32 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 138-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 138-10

Date: July 30, 1972
Time: 1:06 pm - 1:32 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

[See Conversation No. 198-20]

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[Duration: 22m 8s ]

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    The President's schedule
         -Allen J. Ellender’s funeral
               -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
                     -Conversation with the President
                     -Possible attendance
                         -Luncheons
                         -Problem
                                -Congressional wives
                     -Church
                     -Cemetery

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 33s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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    Watergate
        -Bugging
              -Democratic National Committee Headquarters

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 24s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was made by an AI model listening to the recording (gemini-3.8-flash) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Speaker names are the model's inference from the voices and the participant list. Words and names can still be wrong — verify against the audio and the finding aid before citing.

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NixonYes, sir.

NixonI've only informed uh John Connally of this. I don't want you to go beyond it, but I had a good talk with him this morning and then I called Wallace on the phone. Talked to him for about 20 minutes and talked to his wife for 5 minutes or so.

NixonSo, uh thanked him I me- I mean I didn't thank him, but I said I understood how he felt and that he had many good years ahead and that I reminded him of Sunrise at Campobello and so forth and so on. Told him that Haig would come down. Wanted to brief him every 2 weeks, and that Connally was my closest political associate and would he could talk to him like to me and so forth.

NixonSo, he went on and on. Mrs. Wallace got on and said how much he admired Mrs. Nixon and the two girls and be sure f- She'd often said it, she didn't think the press ever carried it, but she wanted to know she'd said it. And then then we went on. So, that's that.

NixonNow, I did say one thing to Wallace that uh well that open-ended. I said, you know, "Governor, I want to ask your opinion." I said, "Naturally we'll be doing some traveling." I said, "I don't want to come to Alabama if it would be in any way embarrassing to you." He says, "Oh, no. I'd love to have you," you know.

NixonSo, uh I said, "Well, we'll we when we're making our plans, I'll have somebody get in touch with your staff." I said uh, "Maybe go to Montgomery or Huntsville or something." So, I think that's uh something that we can think of. You know, I think we should go to Alabama.

NixonI mean, as he said, "Well, you've got lots of friends down here," you know, and all that.

NixonSo, uh that's that. But so that's all set. The other thing is something that I would like for you to arrange and I don't think it should be too difficult. I would like to get the film of Sunrise at Campobello and send it down with our man, Fisher or something. He could even go down with Haig

Nixonand uh and show it to the Wallaces. He has not seen it, you know, it's the story, yeah. And I and then I just said, "I think I think, uh Governor, you it'll show you that you can really re-cover and come back and fight," and so forth. I said the main thing that with FDR, he it it crippled him in the legs, but didn't it didn't affect his head.

NixonAnd I said, "That's the way with you." He says, "Your head's all right." So, I think really I I gave him a hell of a lift, you know, the way we talked.

HaldemanGreat. Great.

NixonSo uh, you you see no problem in sending the film down, do you?

HaldemanNone whatsoever.

NixonIn fact, I think you could even send it down without Haig. Maybe send it down I mean, fly out on a Might be better just to have uh Yeah, on a JetStar.

HaldemanWell, Fisher could just take it down.

NixonCall Call Fisher and say, "Look, uh the President wants this done," and uh put him on a JetStar Yeah. and uh and and and you can be in touch with their people. What What evening would they like to see it?

NixonAnd we'll take it uh I don't know whether he It may be that he can't see it now as he's still in the hospital, but if he But they can But they can set it up, wheel him into a room,

Nixonand let the nurses and others see it. That's what you might say that this is this'll be a very inspiring thing for him to see. Mhm.

HaldemanGood. We'll do that.

NixonAnd when I told Connally of all the events of this week, I considered that by far the most important one. By far, because it's it we know what it does.

NixonThe others we never can judge what they will do.

NixonRight?

HaldemanAbsolutely.

NixonAnd uh so that's that.

HaldemanGod, I've been wading through these polls all weekend, you know. Our in-depth polls, and boy the the one the only thing that comes through loud and clear there is is how much better off we are without Wallace in.

NixonRight.

HaldemanThere just is no question.

NixonRight. With regard to the uh that the uh thing, you you will I want you to follow up directly with a member of his staff, uh you know, on this film.

HaldemanOh, right.

NixonAnd just say uh we the President mentioned this and I don't know what staff member he's got that you uh Well, find out from Haig who he talked to.

HaldemanIt's this fellow Gands, I think.

NixonYeah. And say that uh we'd like to arrange it and that uh we have it on and we'll send it down anytime they they want it for an evening and that they could put it on, you know, in a in a room or a projection room or Mhm. people other people at the hospital might want to see it, too, you know. Wallace can do it anyway he wants.

NixonAnd we can get that uh taken care of. And the uh I uh

Nixonwas very interested in talking to Connally today. He started the conversation, says, "Well," he says, "it looks like they're setting the stage to drop Eagleton."

Nixon"I don't know, John," I said, "have you seen the Gallup poll?" And he said, "No," he said, "what's shown?" And I told him. He said, "Well, God, uh"

NixonI said, "Of course, if 25% of the people believe that he should drop him, that could mean that he's a he's a as a liability." But I said, "On the other hand, if he does drop him, by a factor of 2 to 1, people think he's wrong."

HaldemanYeah, but see, yesterday all the stuff coming out of the McGovern camp was that they don't believe in polls, that this was an inaccurate poll, a too small a sample.

NixonOh, I didn't know that.

HaldemanThere's all kind- They're shoveling it out by the carload.

NixonThey're pissing on this poll?

HaldemanPissing on the poll, right, exactly.

NixonWell, what's Eagleton saying? He's He's He's

HaldemanWell, [chuckles] Eagle- I just watched him. He was just on Face the Nation.

NixonYeah. What'd he say?

HaldemanAnd uh he said that that he said he definitely was going to stay on, and they kept screwing in on, you know, what all that. And they said, "Well, what would happen if uh if, in your conversation with Senator McGovern on Monday night, he made it clear to you that he wants you to get off? Then what would you do?"

HaldemanUh and he said, "I would weigh what he says." [snorts] And the- they said, "Well, you mean if he asked you to get off, you wouldn't get off?" And he said, "I'd weigh what he said, but I'm not going to say now uh I wouldn't make that decision." Yeah.

NixonBoy, this is Boy, that's a hell of a problem for him, isn't it?

HaldemanAnd then he he said, "Well, you mean you don't feel you don't feel this is McGovern's decision to make? You think it's your decision to make?"

NixonNobody ever told him that.

HaldemanHe said, "I think it's a joint decision." And he said, "You have to realize the presidency and vice presidency is a partnership. They work together and they would make a joint decision."

NixonThat's right. He's right.

NixonThat's what I told Eisenhower. [laughs] You know? Even though I said, "Look, I'll get off if you want me to," but he wouldn't. But

Nixonon the other hand uh this fellow isn't saying that to McGovern, is he?

HaldemanApparently he's not. No. He's apparently saying, "I'm going to stay on."

NixonI think I think he

NixonAnd that listens, "Screw you." I may uh

HaldemanAnd he he-

NixonVery interesting.

Haldemanfelt that he They said, "Well, do you-"

NixonHow did he look? Did he look composed and everything, as

HaldemanHe looked uh reasonably good, but he was perspiring an enormous amount, and he was trembling.

NixonWell, I always perspire, so that's not shit.

HaldemanEverybody does, but uh towards the end of the program, George Herman said, "Now, uh you're on national television, a lot of people can see you. And uh so I think it's only fair to point out uh to the people and give you a chance to explain it, that uh you're uh perspiring very heavily, and your hands are trembling."

NixonHerman, the son of a bitch.

HaldemanAnd so [laughter] Eagleton said, "Well," he said, "there're very hot lights here." And he said, "Yes, but you're perspi- we're all under the lights and you're perspiring more," or something, "and your hands are trembling." And he said, "Well, I'm I've been gesturing with my hands." And he said, "Yes, but they're shaking."

NixonMy God.

HaldemanWhich is true, they were.

NixonWell, that was cruel.

HaldemanBut he really zeroed it in on him.

NixonThat's cruel.

HaldemanAnd they had Jack Anderson on the panel.

NixonOh, they did?

HaldemanAs one of the reporters.

NixonWell, I hope he spoke up to him.

HaldemanAnd well, Anderson apologized. Gave gave a a very strong apology. Said that he had done the wrong thing. He had hurt the man. He did not intend to. He had violated his own rules on checking stories and that was a mistake, and he apologized. And Eagleton said, "Well, it takes a good man to to to do something like that and I appreciate it."

HaldemanBut then Anderson-

NixonHello?

NixonHello?

NixonMust be pressed in here.

NixonYeah, then Anderson what?

HaldemanWell, then Anderson came back a little bit later and he said, "Unfortunately, I'd like to clear this all up right now, but I cannot retract the story, because I do have specific instances and I've got to track all that out, but I'd like to do that with you privately."

HaldemanAnd McGo- uh Eagleton got all upset then. He said, "I don't understand it. If you can apologize, why can't you retract the story?"

HaldemanAnderson just said, "Because I still have what I believe to be valid evidence that it's true."

NixonGood God.

Haldeman"Or that it may be, and that I want to-"

NixonAnderson's trying to save his uh trying to save his ass, yeah.

Haldeman"And I've got to check that out with you." So then they got into another flap again.

NixonYeah, it must've been an exciting program.

HaldemanThen George Herman or one of them said uh, "Now let's get everything cleared-"

NixonWho's George Herman? Is this a Star?

HaldemanNo, it's the CBS uh Star. uh CBS news guy.

NixonOh, yeah. Yeah.

NixonYeah, yeah.

HaldemanHe said uh uh, said, "Now let's get everything cleared up now. Is there a-"

Haldemananything else, uh, in your past that, uh, would be a problem?"

NixonEagleton [crosstalk] Eagleton. Yeah.

Haldeman[crosstalk] And McGovern got real smart-alecky, and he said, "Well, I haven't--" I mean, Eagle--Eagleton got very smart, and he said, "I haven't, uh, uh--I haven't committed any burglaries in the last few weeks. And, uh, I haven't done any pickpocketing that I can remember." And, you know, started in [laughter] and this real smart-alecky answer. And Herman interrupted. He said, "I wasn't kidding, uh, Senator. I I thought it was

NixonMm-hmm.

Haldemanwould be a good idea to clear up any other possibilities." And then, he got into the "I've never--"

NixonYeah. And the thing that I was going to mention to you, and I didn't get this to Colson, to be sure that our people understand, there's one thing that is developing here that we've got to really really guard against, and that is there is a sympathy reaction for Eagleton.

Nixonit doesn't do us any good. See, this is why Herman, who's a left-wing son of a bitch, takes him on. Herman is trying to make Eagleton look bad. The press, the McGovern protective society, is trying to make Eagleton look bad, and McGovern is being the nice, decent guy taken in.

NixonYeah.

NixonNow, we have got--our whole interest, we don't we don't want to make Eagleton look bad. That's why my rule about, "Don't kick the man when he's down," is good. But then what we do, Bob, what we do is, because I told Colson, get get about five different one-liners, quotes from McGovern, "I'm for him 1,000%.

NixonIf one is against him, I'm against him." Da, da, da. You see what I mean? So as to make McGovern look bad. Don't you agree? It isn't going to hurt us or it isn't going to help us too much if Eagleton looks bad. It's going to help us enormously if McGovern looks bad. Don't you think that's the fundamental point? And don't you think that this is what the press is trying to do?

HaldemanRight. Sure.

NixonOr do you, I don't know, maybe maybe it isn't that bad, but Colson thinks the press--he said he apparently watched that Agronsky show. He says, "Well, they were really saying McGovern's staff was bad and so forth, and so on." But I I don't know. But what's your judgment?

HaldemanYeah. No, they are. I think they are.

HaldemanI didn't see the Agronsky thing, so I don't know. But, uh, uh, the McGovern people, it seems to me, everything that they're trying to do, and McGovern himself did, is is to give the signal to the guy to get off.

NixonYeah.

HaldemanAnd, and the guy is responding exactly the other way. Yeah.

NixonYeah. They got a tiger on their hands, haven't they?

HaldemanAnd Now, to the on the, uh On Meet the Press, they have, uh, uh,

HaldemanWestwood, the Democratic chair--chairwoman, you know, the woman

NixonAre you watching it?

HaldemanI was, yeah. But it doesn't matter, it's, and Basil Paterson, the vice chairman. And they both came on at the beginning of the show and called on Eagleton to withdraw from the ticket.

NixonOh, well. All right.

HaldemanAnd they said they had not discussed this with McGovern, but that the two of them had met this morning. They'd kept quiet all week, and they had now concluded uh this morning that it was time that everything was in now and the judgment should be made. He should get off the ticket. And they called on him to step off.

NixonWell, then, he's got to drop him, doesn't he?

HaldemanSo, when you have the national chairman calling to drop him, uh,

NixonDo you think he has to drop him, then?

HaldemanYeah, and I think they'd they Now, they bluntly denied that they had talked to McGovern. But they the stupid reporters didn't follow up and say, "Well, have you talked to Mankiewicz or anybody else on McGovern's behalf?" I'm sure McGovern called and told them, "When you go on the air today, you you call for his withdrawal."

NixonMcGovern's trying in a very sly way--

HaldemanHe's trying to get him off without his having

Nixonunderhanded way to tell, "Well, look, because all of our people want you off, you've got to get off." Uh, do they have to have a national committee meeting or not? Or is it Can they do it by tele- tele- tele--

HaldemanOh, they can,

Nixontelegram?

HaldemanAs I understand it, they have to have a meeting. But, they, lawyers can probably figure a way not to, but I don't know.

NixonWell, it takes two weeks notice, doesn't it, earlier?

HaldemanOh, they can dispense with the notice. But the way that committee is screwed up, they can't probably can't get a majority vote to do anything.

NixonWell, you know, survival is the first rule of politics and life. And maybe they'll say, "Good God, get him off and put somebody else on fast." Don't you think so? Maybe. In the light of this, I I think that, uh, I I agree now I This morning, I had thought that they'd have to keep him on because of this poll and everything.

NixonBut in the light of this, the whole line that we should take, our people, uh, you know, in their off-the-record and so forth, is that, "Feel very sorry for Eagleton. You know, courageous, standing up," and so forth, and, "you know, you don't kick a man when he's down, and McGovern has handled it cynically. He's destroyed a human being here." You know what I mean? You don't have to do it that way.

NixonDon't you agree? And if that can be gotten across, that would be very effective. I think that's not a bad point. But also in the light of it,

Nixonif they do decide to drop this McGovern will have to decide after tomorrow night. I mean, you can't delay.

HaldemanThat's right.

NixonUh, I don't think, Bob, we can do a press conference, then, do you?

HaldemanNot if they drop him.

NixonWell, if they keep him on, we we do it. But if they drop him, what do you think?

HaldemanI don't think you can.

NixonBecause I think we should decide it f- now, actually. If If If they drop it, analyzing it, if they drop him, why do we do a press conference? What's the purpose? I mean, really, it's uh--

HaldemanI'd rather let them have the news.

NixonIt's their story. Who knows, who knows? Maybe--

HaldemanFor a while. Although, well, let's see. That's a Tuesday story, you're talking about Thursday, I don't know. I my inclination is that you shouldn't do it. I'm not sure why.

NixonHad a talk with Al Capp today, very interesting, and gee, it was good, you know. I called him just to cheer him up, and, uh, he'd been on Merv Griffin, and he said, "Gee, it's great." Made two or three points. First, he had written me in '70, or came to see me after the '70 campaign, and he said, "You know, don't

Nixonbelieve all this crap they say about you didn't do the right thing." He says, "People related to you then." He says, "The San Jose incident was overblown, and the rest, but they like a president out fighting." I said, "What do you think I ought to do now?" He said, "Look, in the last two years, you have developed such a an image of the president of all the people.

NixonSays, you're way above these clowns." He said, "Don't get down with them." He said, "Don't, don't go out and campaign. Don't you dare do it." You know, and here's a fighter. He said, "Let Agnew do it. Let others do it. But you don't do it." And I said, "Well, now what about relating to people?" He said, "You are, you have related to them." He said, "China relates to them, the Russia relates to them." He said, "You're, your people that are urging you to get down there, you know, the, the Doles and the rest,

Nixonthey don't know what the hell they're talking about, because they, they are overlooking, uh, the, the enormous impact of the China, and the Russia, and Vietnam, the May 8th, and the rest." Interesting observation, isn't it?

HaldemanYep. It really is.

NixonAnd I asked him, "Well, what about press conferences?" because he'd written me a nice note after the last one. And so, and making the point that he thought it was the best I had, but he said, "Don't quip with these people." He said, "Don't get down in the ring with them." I think he's right. Well, I, I think he really is. I mean, I think you can quip just a little, but not too much. But anyway, he said,

NixonI, I said, "Do you think I, how I should have them?" He said, "Yes, but not too often." I said, "Once a month?" "No, that, that's maybe too often." He says, "Only when you feel like it." Interesting point again. And, uh, I think we, we, we, I think the in-office thing is never a risk. I mean, that, that's always a winner, don't you agree?

HaldemanYeah. Yep.

NixonI mean, or it at least doesn't lose anything. There's no-- But his point--

HaldemanOh no, it it's always a winner. There's no question. The only, as you know, my only concern with it is you don't win as much as you could.

NixonBut his point that at the present time, don't get down in the ring, this and that. You know, we maybe uh maybe. You see, the reason this is raised is that the enormous pressures are now going to come on. They're going to come on from uh I mean naturally that the National Committee, MacGregor, of course, probably--

HaldemanThey're mainly going to come on from McGovern. The other side is is going to push awful hard to try and get you involved.

NixonGet me involved. Yeah.

HaldemanThat's right.

Nixon"He doesn't care. He isn't campaigning. He's not seeing the people," and so forth. So the thing to do The thing to do is to go out and see the people in a non-political way. You see?

HaldemanThey'll start all that stuff.

NixonIsn't that right?

NixonAnd, uh, we're not, uh, And, you know, you can do it about once a week, and that answers--

Nixonthey've got one big story a week and that just blots out everything else.

NixonOr do you agree? Maybe

Nixonyou know, I must say when I I sent a little memorandum to you on it because it's pretty good thing to for you and MacGregor and Dole to have to talk on the news piece that appeared in the Post this morning

Nixonabout the piece on McGovern, the one in our campaign where it's at a top Nixon person was saying that Nixon rested and was, uh, writing his acceptance speech, and so forth. Well, of course, all this is sounds like Sears to me, but I don't know who else would put it out. Who do you think?

HaldemanI don't know.

HaldemanI don't know. That that's one that's

NixonIt's not good, though. It's not good, because it's tackling your own ball carrier, isn't it? You know, it's And, of course, the other thing, it's not not true. But, uh,

Nixonit's a kind of It's, uh There There is something about going going on though in the campaign group that is not healthy. That sort of thing, you know, "Well, we screwed up everything in the past," and so forth, and that now and and we mustn't let that happen because, by God, it's not true. What do you think? Or Or Or

NixonI don't mind I don't mind them all saying that, look, it's a tough race, and we're not take we're not being complacent. But I don't want them to think that we were sitting on our fannies, cuz, good God, we didn't in '68. We didn't take any rest. That's the reason, you know, I've always been more concerned about this than you or Ziegler have been concerned about it, you know? I said, "Don't, for Christ's sake, don't indicate that the president is resting." You see?

NixonWhat do you think?

HaldemanWell, I think you're right. I don't think it's something we ought to make a big issue out of, cuz I don't think it makes You think it's an in-house issue, huh? Sure. I don't think it makes the slightest bit of difference whether we even campaigned in '68

Haldemanin terms of what what happens now. I mean, whether we did everything right, or everything wrong.

NixonRight. I see. But except among our own people. Right.

HaldemanFor our own people concerned.

HaldemanI don't think they care.

NixonRight.

HaldemanI don't think we want to want to talk about '68 at all.

NixonOr '60.

HaldemanPuts you back into the into your candidate minus as a political technician.

NixonThat's right.

HaldemanAnd that's that's the part that Al Capp's saying that I we should He feels very strongly about this. He says he's talked to all these Jews who are taking the treatment with him.

NixonYeah.

Haldeman[laughter]

NixonAnd their wives. He said they're very emotional. But he said they're all for you now, you know. You know what I mean. This is the the rich wives. But it's pretty interesting.

NixonBut the uh w- with regard to looking now at the press conference thing, if McGovern does decide to drop him, uh I really can't see how we can gain

Nixonby being on TV so soon thereafter.

HaldemanI think that's probably right. Now,

NixonThe other thing is,

Haldemanwe might still do it early the following week.

NixonWell, Tuesday, remember I figured that. But that's the last possible day that I can do it, cuz then I've really got to get to work on acceptance speech. Yeah.

HaldemanYeah. Right.

NixonBut a Tuesday might not be bad. We've got to do one before the convention, I think. Don't you think so?

HaldemanYes. I think we sure should.

NixonHard to set it up to do it later. I hate to put it off to Tuesday, I'd rather get it get it done with, frankly. So, maybe it's better just to How about a 7:30 one, just to, you know, in a in a sense to

Nixonnot the highest key, but sort of a medium key, do one like that this week. In other words, you've set the stage, then What I mean, you've bought You've bought the idea, you've done a televised conference,

HaldemanUh, from the

Nixonso that you can do it later, you see? Yeah. The prime time thing is, and then later you do it on prime time. See, uh, you don't have to do it, you know, we can you can even do one at noon.

NixonWhich is no problem.

HaldemanExcept that's got all the negatives and none of the positives of going on TV.

NixonWell, except that it buys you the idea that you can do a TV conference later, see?

NixonYeah. But 7:30 isn't bad, is it? What do you think of that?

HaldemanWell, it's about half the audience, or less.

NixonRight. But if we haven't got a hell of a lot to say, why not?

HaldemanI don't think it matters what you have to say, it you lose the impression you you want to make. I'd I'd You'd still go at nine?

NixonYou'd still go at nine?

HaldemanGo way in, yeah.

NixonYeah, maybe so.

HaldemanRegardless. If you're going to go at all. I don't think from the viewpoint of what you're aiming at, of of not jumping in right after the Eagleton thing, I think 7:30 has just as has just as much of that as nine does.

NixonYeah, I see.

NixonWell, we can think about it. I, I have a feeling that, uh, with all of that thing on, for us to come on, the press will be, looking at them,

Nixonare going to be obviously desperate to find something to prick us on, you know, to pull us down to their level.

NixonAnd, uh, maybe it's just to our interest to let them stay at their level. Is there something to be said for that? I know I think I I know that there's I mean we did this, perhaps, somewhat in '68, that we all said, "Gee, they're in such trouble, let's not pick them out," but so, uh,

HaldemanI think there is.

NixonI don't know what But I wonder at this point. I think their troubles are so serious, that it may be well to let them, uh, wallow on them.

HaldemanI think that has a point.

NixonTomorrow, incidentally, I was talking to Pat, and, uh, she would like from a just a personal standpoint to go down there, if it doesn't if it is, you know, uh, convenient. Now, of course, uh, we have our two,

Nixonyou know, cabinettes there, and so forth. Uh, I'm inclined to think it might not be bad in one sense that, you know, she always went to those luncheons. She's been to three of them there that he gave. That allows me to walk with her and nobody else going into the place, coming off the plane, and all the rest.

NixonAnd then, uh, now, but she doesn't insist, you know, she doesn't care. But

HaldemanI think it'd be good on every count, except that we told the congressional people she wasn't coming, so they aren't bringing their wives. But she could decide at the last minute.

NixonBut she could just decide. You see, even having told them, you could say we told them that she wasn't coming, but you can say that Mrs. Nixon decided because she had such an affection for Senator Ellender, she wanted to come.

NixonNo problem, is it? To hell with the congressional people, let's do what's best for us. And, uh,

HaldemanNo, I don't think so.

HaldemanIt's good having her with you, probably.

Nixonbecause, uh, you know, it'll mean a lot to those people down there to see her. Yeah. I think we'll do it.

NixonAnd, uh, and we're still going out to the, uh, to the church, and not to the, uh, cemetery. And they've been told. That's good. There's There's no problem on that. Everybody understands that we don't have that much time.

HaldemanCemetery, yeah.

HaldemanThat's right.

NixonOkay.

NixonGetting, one last thing, getting back to this thing, the, I think, Bob, that this, uh, is the most devastating thing about this whole business is not what it tells us about Eagleton, but what it tells us about McGovern.

NixonGood God, he is really and his staff, what do you think?

HaldemanI do. I I think that's it shows the kind of weakness that we thought was there is there.

NixonAnd we couldn't have had a better way to demonstrate it. That's right. And it showed it very clearly.

HaldemanThat's right, and it showed it very clearly.

NixonWell, I'd like to have a tape recorder in that room. [laughter] But our poor bastards ate taped the Democratic National Committee. [laughter]

Nixonstupidest thing. Well, anyway.

NixonWhere are they going to meet? Has it been announced?

HaldemanI don't think In Washington, but I don't know where.

NixonYeah.

NixonWell, I think we'll know by tomorrow night, don't you?

HaldemanI would think so.

HaldemanI would think they'd have to come to a conclusion and announce it. Right. They got to get off the pot. Right.

NixonYeah.

NixonRight. They got to get off the pot. Right.

NixonOkay.

Also recorded on July 30, 1972

138-009 1:00 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:00 pm and 1:06 pm.
198-018 1:00 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:00 pm and 1:06 pm.
198-019 1:00 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:00 pm and 1:06 pm.
198-020 1:06 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 1:06 pm to 1:32 pm.
138-011 1:32 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:32 pm and 1:56 pm.
198-021 1:32 PM · 22 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:32 pm and 1:56 pm.
198-022 1:32 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 1:32 pm and 1:56 pm.
138-012 1:56 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 1:56 pm.

All 23 conversations from July 30, 1972 →

Nixon, Graham & Haldeman on 1972 election and Media criticism February 1, 1972 · 1 hr 35 min
Nixon, Haldeman & Butterfield on 1972 Presidential Campaign October 18, 1972 · 1 hr 17 min
Nixon phone call with Haldeman on Eagleton controversy July 29, 1972 · 12 min
Nixon phone call with Carruthers on Public relations and Speechwriting July 3, 1971 · 2 min
Nixon phone call with Graham on Public relations and Media coverage October 19, 1971 · 4 min
Nixon phone call with Colson on NBC News and Presidential image December 21, 1971 · 23 min

Cite this conversation

Conversation 138-010, July 30, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 648452429). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/138-010 (accessed November 8, 2026).