Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 140 › Conversation 140-050

Nixon, Colson & Kissinger on George McGovern and Vietnam War

Sunday, August 20, 1972 · 12:27 PM–12:36 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.; Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation140-050 on Tape 140StartSunday, August 20, 1972 at 12:27 PMEndSunday, August 20, 1972 at 12:36 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 140-050 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon, Charles Colson, and Henry Kissinger discuss George McGovern's recent interview, in which the Democratic candidate advocated for a communist-dominated coalition government in South Vietnam. The participants express disbelief at McGovern's political strategy, labeling his comments as extreme and amateurish, while predicting that such rhetoric will alienate voters. Nixon encourages Colson to bolster Kissinger's morale following recent public attacks, viewing the opposition's focus on his aides as a sign of desperation.

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My God, this son-of-a-bitch McGovern is really getting rough.
That interview he gave to these nine reporters yesterday, Henry was here, and he'd just been here.
We were just talking about the most shocking goddamn thing I ever heard.
He said, we'll turn South Vietnam over to the Communists.
Well, I think the man has lost his sense of rational purpose.
He gains.
I don't see where he gains by saying that.
That just turns people off.
Even sophisticates who are against the war don't want to have a massacre and people fleeing the country.
That's anything that our boys can talk about is a massacre, and I don't trust that gets some of the Catholics back.
You know who's going to get killed, Chuck?
The Catholics.
Oh, of course.
They're the ones that are fighting.
That's right.
Jesus, the Buddhists don't fight.
It's the Catholics.
i mean i mean henry's really the function of it he feels that the thing is he's really got gone uh gone haywire on some of this stuff well i don't think there's any question about it i think he has gone i think my government has gone haywire he just stepped back into the room here and we've got to continue to work you got anything else to report of interest uh no i don't even know i mean you're not
I told him not to be worried about the fact that these people are attacking him.
I think, Bill, it just helps us know.
You think so?
Absolutely.
The junketing stuff, I think it's just unbelievable.
Well, I think what it does, Mr. President, it shows how desperate they are.
How desperate they are, yeah.
If they have to use something as ridiculous as that, hell, they don't have any, they're in trouble if they do.
What in the hell does McGovern have this kind of a background here, though?
Chuck, with these reporters, what in the name of God does he think he's proving?
Does he think he's gaining with people by calling for a communist government?
No, I think... A coalition government?
No, I don't think he understands the significance of what he's saying.
And I also don't...
I think he's still running for...
He's still acting like a fellow running for state office.
You know, everything he has done has been...
just terribly amateurish, and I don't think he realizes that as a presidential candidate... Yeah, but he's got a bright guy like Mankiewicz with him.
Why the hell isn't Mankiewicz telling him what to do?
Well, I don't think he's able to control him when the fellow's sitting there spilling off what's on his mind, and to him it is quite plausible to have...
But everybody thinks he's so smart.
I mean, that's what everybody wrote before the California primary.
Oh, McGovern?
Yeah.
Oh, hell, I think he's dumb.
I realize they wrote that, but I still think the man is not intelligent.
Uh, he really is not a...
Anyway, you can, uh, you keep the fire burning down there.
If you want to, you want to give Henry, I mean, buck up his spirits a little.
He's very depressed about all these attacks on him.
He's depressed?
Well, my golly, I can buck him up on that.
Hello?
Hello, Henry, how are you?
Okay, Chuck, I'm not depressed.
Well, my golly, you're talking to the fellow who gets attacked every day.
Well, he attacks you once a week.
I know it.
I've been stepping it up.
You know what it means, Henry.
What it means is that they're so desperate that they have to grasp at any possible straw.
And I just think it builds this up.
When they attack you or they attack me, then they can't attack the president.
But I'm amazed at their incompetence.
Well, this interview today is shocking.
But, you know, it isn't just the coalition government.
He says a communist-dominated coalition government.
Well, he says the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese would take over.
Yeah.
And that's what he wants.
He said he would like to see that because it would have greater support in the countryside.
Yeah, even that isn't true.
If that's the case, why the hell are they all fleeing south?
Well, and if that's true, how is it that Thieu has given a million and a half arms to his own people and they aren't used against him?
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Well, he's just sinking himself deeper and deeper into a mire that he can't get out of because he is a candidate of the enemy, and nobody has ever won an American election that way, and nobody ever will.
It's just Americans are just a little too provincial for that.
Thank God.
Well, thank God is right.
Okay, Chuck.

NARA Description

On August 20, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David from 12:27 pm to 12:36 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 140-050 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 140-50

Date: August 20, 1972
Time: 12:27 pm - 12:36 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 206-9]

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 3m 50s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

*****************************************************************

     Vietnam
          -George S. McGovern interview
               -Intentions for South Vietnam
                     -Henry A. Kissinger

                     -Communists
                     -Reaction
                         -Massacre prediction in South Vietnam
                               -Catholics
                               -Buddhists

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 49s      ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

*****************************************************************

     Vietnam
          -McGovern interview
              -Kissinger's view

Kissinger entered at an unknown time after 12:27 pm.

              -Attack on Kissinger
              -McGovern strategy
                    -Purpose
                        -Possible coalition government
                    -Result
                    -Frank F. Mankiewicz
          -McGovern
              -Intelligence
                    -California primary
              -Colson’s view

Kissinger talked with Colson at an unknown time after 12:27 pm.

          -Attacks on Kissinger
                -Kissinger’s view
          -McGovern interview
                -Possible coalition government
                     -Viet Cong

                     -North Vietnam
                     -Nguyen Van Thieu
                -Colson’s view

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 14s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5

*****************************************************************

Also recorded on August 20, 1972

  • 140-049 11:25 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:25 am and 12:27 pm.
  • 206-008 11:25 AM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 11:25 am and 12:27 pm.
  • 206-009 12:27 PM · 17 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:27 pm and 1:00 pm.
  • 140-051 12:36 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:36 pm and 4:00 pm.
  • 206-010 12:36 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:36 pm and 4:00 pm.
  • 206-011 12:36 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:36 pm and 4:00 pm.
  • 206-012 12:36 PM · 26 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:36 pm and 4:00 pm.
  • 206-013 12:36 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 12:36 pm and 4:00 pm.

All 28 conversations from August 20, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 140-050, August 20, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/140-050 (accessed October 8, 2026).