Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 32 › Conversation 032-036

Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Vietnam War and Peace negotiations

Wednesday, October 25, 1972 · 10:11 AM–10:14 AM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation032-036 on Tape 32StartWednesday, October 25, 1972 at 10:11 AMEndWednesday, October 25, 1972 at 10:14 AMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 032-036 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417193971 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler coordinate messaging for upcoming press briefings, focusing on legislation, the schedule for farm and urban affairs speeches, and the administration's stance on Vietnam peace negotiations. Nixon directs Ziegler to explicitly deny rumors of a coalition government in South Vietnam and to prepare a response to George McGovern's criticisms regarding the peace process. Ultimately, they decide to frame McGovern’s comments as irresponsible and contrast the President's commitment to 'peace with honor' against the risks posed to ongoing negotiations.

Audio

Download MP3 · 5.4 MB

NARA Description

On October 25, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 10:11 am to 10:14 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 032-036 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 032-036

Date: October 25, 1972
Time: 10:11 am - 10:14 am
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.

[See Conversation No. 372-15]

        Ziegler’s news briefing
            -The President's meeting with John D. Ehrlichman
                 -Discussion of legislation
            -Farm speech
                 -Scheduling
            -Urban affairs speech
                 -Taping
            -The President's meeting with Henry A. Kissinger

                 -Speculation on settlement
                     -Ziegler response
                     -Coalition government
                         -The President’s view
             -Vietnam
                 -Response to George S. McGovern
                     -Differences between the President and McGovern
                         -Wording
                              -Ziegler’s forthcoming talk with Kissinger
                     -Possible rebuttals
                     -McGovern's comments
                         -Camparison with Hubert H. Humphrey and the President in 1968
                         -Sabotage of settlement

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).

Yeah, yes, sir.
You might point out that I had an hour with Erlichman this morning on various bills, and we'll have an announcement tomorrow on them.
Yes, sir.
We presently now are going to have the farm talk on Friday and the talk on, I don't know whether you got to check with Erlichman, the bourbon talk on Saturday.
All right.
In other words, farm radio one and bourbon on Saturday.
Yes, sir.
Everyone will have to be taken to think what we're doing in the morning.
And the other thing I talked to, I just concluded a talk with Henry, and in that thing I told him about what you can call him on, that at one point you could, and he may have, if you want to talk to me in a language that, now there's been a lot of speculation, gentlemen, about this agreement.
I suggested that much of it is way off the mark.
For example, there's been speculation about a coalition government.
I would remind you that the president has said categorically, and he holds this position, that one principle that must be adhered to in any settlement is that there will not be the imposition of a coalition government in the South Vietnam, that the people of South Vietnam
will determine their own future.
All right.
Check with Henry to see what he wants in the way of language and put it that way.
I just want to knock that one down, which is about all we can say.
Knock the coalition government down.
That's about the only thing we can say today.
Should we attack McGovern a little bit, do you think?
Well, my own view is, yes, I think at this instance, in this instance, we'd like to escalate this issue, but I would say that
You could say this, that there's a very simple difference.
The president is for peace with honor, and the opponent is for peace with surrender.
I put it right cold.
That's really the difference.
There's quite a difference here.
Peace with honor, peace with surrender.
Let me talk to...
And I'll try to use the word surrender if you can.
If you can't do that, just say, I don't mind doing it.
I just wonder if we should do that from here.
Well, anyway, there might be another way to word it.
But you can find, I don't know what else you could say, but you could say that.
Or the other thing you could say, they ask about what McGarvey said.
Look, gentlemen, he has made so many and is all over the lot on this.
It's not going to comment on it.
And I can only say that all of this kind of speculation, these charges and so forth, are not worthy of a presidential candidate.
This is what you might say.
They're highly irresponsible because they can only have the effect of possibly imperiling
what now appears to be progress in the peace negotiations.
And you would urge again that Senator McGovern consider what President Humphrey and Mr. Nixon did in 1968.
Both refused to comment on negotiations, which were far less hopeful than these.
That's the line I think that he's all over the lot.
You don't know which one to comment on.
You're not going to dignify any one of them until he decides.
Yes, sir.
That's the better lie.
Yes, sir.
Okay.

Also recorded on October 25, 1972

  • 372-012 10:08 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:08 am and 10:09 am.
  • 032-034 10:09 AM · 42 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 10:09 am to 10:10 am.
  • 372-013 10:09 AM · 39 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 10:09 am to 10:10 am.
  • 032-035 10:10 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:10 am and 10:11 am.
  • 372-014 10:10 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:10 am and 10:11 am.
  • 372-015 10:11 AM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 10:11 am to 10:14 am.
  • 372-016 10:14 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:14 am and 11:18 am.
  • 372-017 10:14 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:14 am and 11:18 am.

All 59 conversations from October 25, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 032-036, October 25, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417193971). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/032-036 (accessed November 2, 2026).