Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 148 › Conversation 148-008

Nixon phone call with Mills on Debt Limit and Senate Finance Committee

Tuesday, October 10, 1972 · 8:46 PM–8:50 PM ET · Camp David Study Table ·4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Mills, Wilbur D.Conversation148-008 onTape 148StartTuesday, October 10, 1972 at 8:46 PMEndTuesday, October 10, 1972 at 8:50 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 148-008 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Congressman Wilbur Mills coordinated legislative strategy to secure support in the Senate Finance Committee for a pending bill involving debt limits, Medicare, and welfare. Mills encouraged Nixon to convene a private, Republican-led meeting with key Senators, specifically mentioning Len Jordan and Harry F. Byrd, Jr., to build momentum while avoiding obstruction from Russell Long. The two agreed on a strategy to compromise on specific bill provisions, such as disability and widow's benefits, to ensure passage while keeping the administration's legislative team, including William Timmons and John Veneman, fully informed.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Hello.
I have Congressman Mills for you.
Go ahead.
Hello.
How are you, Mr. President?
Wilbur, how are you?
I thought you should know that, unfortunately, I don't get down to get the galleries.
People notice me, but several people who heard your speech today, they were, of course, mainly Republicans.
said that it was one of the great speeches ever made in the floor of the House, and I just thought you'd like to know that before you went to bed.
Well, John did a good job, too, John Burns.
Yeah, I know, I know.
But I'll tell you, it was a very statesmanlike thing, and it was just a great thing to do for the country.
We don't know what our friends in the Senate will do.
I just wish to hell you were there.
I'm going to hold to this thing in conference.
We're not going to give up.
Can you do that?
Yes, sir.
Tell me, have you got a minute?
How does it tell me the legislative situation?
Because I'm going to get the senators in Thursday morning to talk to some of them.
If you can get Senator Jordan to stand for a motion.
Len Jordan.
All right, I'll get him in.
Dick Cook says that we can carry it in the Finance Committee.
All right, I'll get him down.
How about Russell?
Oh, Russell's been against it always.
Russell's suspended.
All right, then we'll get Jordan.
And I'll make this sort of a Republican group then, huh?
Oh, I would.
Make it just the Republicans.
I think that's better because otherwise it gets partisan.
I would.
I'd do that.
There's no need to call Russell in.
He just will make it water for you.
Right.
You ought to be able to get Carmen Talmadge and some others on our side.
Yeah, but that's got to be done very quietly.
Very quietly.
And you can get Byrd, I think.
Yeah, I'm sure we can get Byrd.
Yeah, so that we can win it in the financial committee if we work at it.
All right, we'll do it.
If you've got any thoughts, pass it on.
I'm going to meet with him 9 o'clock Thursday morning.
That'll be fine.
I'm going to have the conference in the morning at 9 o'clock.
Now, here's my idea.
If we can get the Senate to agree to take over everything that's added to this bill, and then we agree to take out those things the Senate doesn't like,
You'll get about 50% to 55% of a house-pass bill, but it'll be minus welfare.
It will take care of the disabled under Medicare.
It'll raise the widow's benefit up to 100% of her husband's benefit.
A few things like that need not a very expensive bill compared to what they've got.
I see.
It'll be cheaper than a house bill, even.
I see.
All right, fine.
And will you tell, if you'll keep...
Timmons or whoever you want to go with.
Tell them what the strategy is so that we can sort of know what to do, huh?
Well, you'll have him and Jack Veneman, one of the best men you've got working for you.
Veneman, good.
I'll have him at the meeting.
And probably at some point, Richardson himself will be there.
Right.
But we'll work together on it.
Good.
It won't embarrass us at all.
Sure, I know.
I know what this is.
It's very delicate and sensitive.
It is.
Yeah, right.
Well, anyway, give my best to that child that answers the phone when I usually call you.
Okay?
My wife.
Yeah, no, not only your wife, but you remember the...
I wasn't gambling too hard about you.
I don't think you did, too.
Okay.
Thank you.
All right.
Thanks a lot.
Bye.

NARA Description

On October 10, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Wilbur D. Mills talked on the telephone at Camp David from 8:46 pm to 8:50 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 148-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 148-8

Date: October 10, 1972
Time: 8:46 pm - 8:50 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with Wilbur D. Mills.

[See Conversation No. 219-10]

        Greetings

        House of Representatives
           -Speech on debt limit ceiling
           -John W. Byrnes
           -Conference prospect
                -US Senate

        The President's schedule
            -Meeting with Senators
                -Leonard B. (“Len”) Jordan

        Senate
            -Comment by Richard K. Cook
                -Finance Committee
            -Russell B. Long
            -Jordan
            -Herman E. Talmadge
            -Harry F. Byrd, Jr.
            -Finance Committee
            -Timing of meeting
            -Legislative compromise
                -Welfare
                -Medicare
                     -Widow’s benefits
                -William E. Timmons

                                       (rev. Oct-06)

        The President’s schedule
            -John G. Veneman
            -Elliot L. Richardson

Also recorded on October 11, 1972

  • 148-007 8:44 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:44 pm and 8:46 pm.
  • 219-009 8:44 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:44 pm and 8:46 pm.
  • 219-010 8:46 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Wilbur D. Mills met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 8:46 pm to 8:50 pm.
  • 148-009 8:50 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:50 pm and 8:52 pm.
  • 219-011 8:50 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:50 pm and 8:52 pm.
  • 148-010 8:52 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John W. Byrnes talked on the telephone at Camp David from 8:52 pm to 8:55 pm.
  • 219-012 8:52 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John W. Byrnes met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 8:52 pm to 8:55 pm.
  • 148-011 9:04 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:04 pm and 9:34 pm.

All 48 conversations from October 11, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 148-008, October 11, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/148-008 (accessed September 18, 2026).