Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 149 › Conversation 149-004

Nixon phone call with Ehrlichman on Budget and Revenue Sharing

Saturday, October 14, 1972 · 3:50 PM–3:53 PM ET · Camp David Study Table · 3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation149-004 on Tape 149StartSaturday, October 14, 1972 at 3:50 PMEndSaturday, October 14, 1972 at 3:53 PMRecording deviceCamp David Study TableSourceNixon Library record for 149-004 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss political strategy, focusing on the tactical advantages of a 20% federal spending limitation and planning for an upcoming revenue-sharing ceremony in Philadelphia with Mayor Frank Rizzo. The conversation also addresses the status of congressional adjournment regarding the debt ceiling and welfare legislation, as well as concerns regarding potential Watergate-related hearings by Senator James O. Eastland. They discuss the necessity of protecting the White House via executive privilege while acknowledging that individuals like John Mitchell might be compelled to testify.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Yes, sir.
Well, we got here.
Anything new?
No, nothing new for the moment.
I talked to Weinberger and got him headed in the right direction, I think.
And I'll let you know just when something breaks.
Actually, with a 20% limitation, we basically got the best of both worlds.
It gives us a reason for cutting, you know what I mean?
Right.
With a bureaucracy.
And on the other hand, it gives us discretion, right?
Yep, yep.
And a chance to blame the Congress still.
You still get a chance to veto on the strength of not getting the whole thing.
Bob, incidentally, did talk to that fellow, and he's just...
Delighted.
Yeah, I talked to him first.
Apparently, he just thinks it's a great idea.
Yeah, oh, my.
But it is.
It is a good idea.
He was terribly afraid you weren't going to come at all.
But it's a good idea.
It really is a good idea.
I think it's going to be a sensational picture.
It's just going to be a picture, and I think your idea is standing out in front for the receiving end.
Of course, we have a weather problem.
Well, sure, and if it doesn't pan out, there's another way to do it.
If we can't, we'll find a way to get out.
Yeah, yeah.
Or you can move over to that other chamber or, you know.
Right, right.
And I think we ought to, of course, have some coffee catered or something like that.
Yeah, we may not need to.
Park service will take care of it.
Yeah.
Okay, well that does give us, and I think that it really isn't too gimmicky because of the sense that the mayor invited, and she's a Democratic mayor, and it is constitutional, and that's where it all began, and we're making this change back to the Constitution.
So, anyway.
All right, I'll give you a call if there's something down there.
You don't have to unless there's something I need to know.
Right.
They're still sort of drilling for the...
They're going to try and get through this, the whole debt ceiling spending limit conference, and then move on welfare.
And then adjourn.
And then adjourn.
But Timmons is now up talking to Scott Mansfield.
And so we'll get a little better reading on that for sure after he gets back.
He's going to give me a call.
And LaRue is trying to talk to you soon.
I haven't checked on that today.
That was last night.
I'll do a little checking on that, see what's going on there.
He's still puffing and puffing.
I noticed that he's announced his hearings and so forth.
Yeah.
That's just such a damn... Coming this late, it is a blatant thing, of course.
But, you know, it would be quite a parade that he has up there.
Oh, sure.
You can't plead any... Mitchell would have to appear.
That's right.
So it stands.
That's right.
We could keep the White House out of it.
Yeah, yeah.
That's his privilege, but the others...
Right.
Okay.
All right.

NARA Description

On October 14, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 3:50 pm to 3:53 pm. The Camp David Study Table taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 149-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 149-4

Date: October 14, 1972
Time: 3:50 pm - 3:53 pm
Location: Camp David Study Table

The President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.

[See Conversation No. 220-4]

        Budget
           -Ehrlichman's previous conversation with Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
           -Spending limitation
               -Bureaucracy
               -Congress

        Schedule
            -The President's trip to Philadelphia for revenue sharing signing ceremony
                -Frank L. Rizzo’s discussion with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, Ehrlichman
                -Weather
                -Refreshments at ceremony
                     -National Park Service
                -Invitation from Rizzo
            -Congressional adjournment
                -Debt ceiling-spending limit conference
                -Welfare
                -William E. Timmons's conversations with Hugh Scott and Michael J.
                Mansfield
                    -Timmons’s upcoming telephone call to Ehrlichman
            -James O. Eastland's Committee's possible hearings
                -Watergate
                    -Testimony
                          -Frederick C. LaRue
                          -John N. Mitchell, Maurice H. Stans
                          -White House
                               -Executive privilege
                          -LaRue

Also recorded on October 14, 1972

  • 149-001 3:45 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:45 pm and 3:46 pm.
  • 220-001 3:45 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:45 pm and 3:46 pm.
  • 149-002 3:46 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone at Camp David from 3:46 pm to 3:49 pm.
  • 220-002 3:46 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Tricia Nixon Cox met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 3:46 pm to 3:49 pm.
  • 149-003 3:49 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:49 pm and 3:50 pm.
  • 220-003 3:49 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:49 pm and 3:50 pm.
  • 220-004 3:50 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 3:50 pm to 3:53 pm.
  • 220-005 4:05 PM · 19 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and unknown person(s) met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 4:05 pm to 4:30 pm.

All 36 conversations from October 14, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 149-004, October 14, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/149-004 (accessed October 10, 2026).