Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 192 › Conversation 192-016

Nixon phone call with Kleindienst on William Ruckelshaus

Friday, June 9, 1972 · 5:27 PM–5:36 PM ET · Camp David Hard Wire

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kleindienst, Richard G.Conversation192-016 onTape 192 (tape position 02:31:56–02:41:19)StartFriday, June 9, 1972 at 5:27 PMEndFriday, June 9, 1972 at 5:36 PMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 192-016 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Attorney General Richard Kleindienst discuss administrative appointments, political strategy, and legislative obstacles at Camp David. The conversation centers on finding an alternative to William Ruckelshaus for a position due to concerns over environmental spending bills and political optics. They also review the success of recent confirmation processes and express satisfaction with the performance of the Supreme Court.

Audio

Download MP3 (part 1) · 112.1 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 61.4 MB

This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 02:31:56 into the tape and ends around 02:41:19.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) ·JSON data · Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.

2:34:51They welcome the conquering hero.
2:34:57Oh, I remembered so many years ago, yes.
2:35:01That's when I, that's when, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:35:05As a matter of fact, that was the time, you know, Walter Annenberg had never been for me before that appearance.
2:35:12And he was there that day, and he was, he and his wife were kind of taking the whole thing.
2:35:18And that was before 56.
2:35:21And after that, Anna Bird became one of my strongest supporters.
2:35:24That was, you know, sure you wonder why you do these things, and that was really worth it because ever since then.
2:35:33That's right.
2:35:34It's true.
2:35:35If you don't, you're a damn fool.
2:35:37Yeah.
2:35:37Well, I was telling Mitchell this morning, I mean, Andrew, I was...
2:35:42What really surprised me was the good picture they finally used.
2:35:47One of you eventually said, isn't that great?
2:35:48It was good, whether it was good in the Times, too.
2:35:52Times and the Post.
2:35:53Don't think it's going to last, though.
2:35:56Don't think it's going to last.
2:35:58But you must work on it.
2:36:00Yeah, I know.
2:36:01And don't get soft on it.
2:36:03That's what I hope John got to give you my message, John, eventually.
2:36:07Because Connolly, Connolly, he left, he said, now listen, he's a great fighter.
2:36:12He said, well, he just jumped right in.
2:36:16He said, it's because he had a hard fight.
2:36:23He had to get softer.
2:36:24And he's absolutely right.
2:36:27Oh, boy, I'll tell you, he's a stand-up guy.
2:36:30Yeah, and he's pretty helpful at another time, too.
2:36:33But the...
2:36:35On this, your deputy thing, when we were up here today, I talked to him, he had a great length, and I'd like to talk some more with him, but we got a problem on it for a reason, it's solely political.
2:36:49I'm going to have to probably lead to it in Dan Lee-Waterfield, because it costs five billion more than we asked for, you know, and the money thing is a problem.
2:36:58that bill and then booing Ruckelshausen at the same time, while I don't think much of the environmental issue, it could, I think, present a very serious problem.
2:37:09So I'll talk to him about it and see what we can work out.
2:37:17Yeah, yeah.
2:37:22Yeah, yeah.
2:37:24I've done the magic of depending on, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:37:28Yeah.
2:37:29So I know that.
2:37:32But why don't, yeah, why don't you, why don't you, I have decided, I just told John to talk to you about the problems and see if there were any other candidates that could be, that difficulty is, Ruckelshaus is an excellent man for any position, you know what I mean?
2:37:49He's a man that is of cabinet stature, as we both know, and he's also
2:37:54Yeah, or he could also be a damn good senator from Indiana, which would be the right guy.
2:37:59Yeah, yeah.
2:38:03I know.
2:38:04I know.
2:38:05He could do anything.
2:38:05The problem is that this stinking environmental issue is one where we just can't give them money if they want.
2:38:13I don't know.
2:38:14Anyway, talk a little about it and see if you've got any other names.
2:38:18We're going to have a square.
2:38:21Oh, it is open.
2:38:23It is open.
2:38:24I haven't presented all the arguments, and I just, they feel very strongly about the environmental issue.
2:38:32My mind is open.
2:38:34See what the options are.
2:38:36Without swearing in Monday, I think we're going to do, we're going to have you and Schultz and Weimer together.
2:38:43Three of you in one bag.
2:38:52I figured that's the only way we, the only way we can fill the, the only way we can fill the East Room is after we get it together.
2:38:59No one of you has got that many friends, have you?
2:39:06You know, I was thinking, you know, 19 votes was a pretty shoddy showing for those bastards after all that.
2:39:12Got it.
2:39:16Well, of course, they were all, except for Bob Byrd, Liberal Democrat, and he did it for a reason that we're well aware.
2:39:27They were against you on busing and they had to be against you on, uh, slaughter.
2:39:31And so, how do you, how do you like that burger court now, boy?
2:39:35They've been doing well, don't you think?
2:39:38Those, those, that five and four, that last one.
2:39:43One more man.
2:39:44Yeah, who you gonna shoot?
2:39:46Yeah.
2:39:50Boy, nothing.
2:39:52Nothing else is, nothing else is.
2:39:54I think they've tried everything on him, haven't they?
2:39:56Nothing works.
2:40:01Well, I imagine there are many that would be willing to make the sacrifice.
2:40:07Let's do it.
2:40:12Anyway.
2:40:13No, this is actually being called from Camp David.
2:40:16We're on a radio telephone, so we're broadcasting it to all the papers.
2:40:21and he's listening yeah yeah we were we we we're not going to run for many fights after after what we've uh the next week and we were right you know we just had to stick through it and uh and uh and we there for a while the crunch looked awful awful tight but uh
2:40:50I think that strategy was good, too, to get those handkerchiefs closed off, and we did.
2:40:58Yeah.
2:41:01Yeah.
2:41:02No, no.
2:41:03I agree.
2:41:05Yeah.
2:41:05I agree that it was right to have the hearing and then get that 11-4 vote with our 9-4, whatever it was.
2:41:1211-4.
2:41:13That, you see, was the critical thing.

NARA Description

On June 9, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Richard G. Kleindienst met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 5:27 pm to 5:36 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 192-016 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 192-16

Date: June 9, 1972
Time: 5:27-5:36 pm
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

The President talked with Richard G. Kleindienst.

[See Conversation No. 172-9; two items have been withdrawn.]

Also recorded on June 9, 1972

  • 172-007 5:15 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Robert H. Finch talked on the telephone at Camp David from 5:15 pm to 5:23 pm.
  • 192-014 5:15 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Robert H. Finch met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 5:15 pm to 5:23 pm.
  • 172-008 5:26 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 5:26 pm.
  • 192-015 5:26 PM · 18 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at 5:26 pm.
  • 172-009 5:27 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Richard G. Kleindienst talked on the telephone at Camp David from 5:27 pm to 5:36 pm.
  • 172-010 5:38 PM · 57 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 5:38 pm to 5:39 pm.
  • 192-017 5:38 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 5:38 pm to 5:39 pm.
  • 172-011 5:39 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 5:39 pm and 5:47 pm.

All 37 conversations from June 9, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 192-016, June 9, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/192-016 (accessed September 18, 2026).