Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 343 › Conversation 343-027

Nixon, Colson & Delaney on Watergate and Bebe Rebozo

Wednesday, June 21, 1972 · 4:00 PM–5:15 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 1 hr 17 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.; White House operator; Delaney, James J.Conversation343-027 on Tape 343 (tape position 00:59:41–02:17:00)StartWednesday, June 21, 1972 at 4:00 PMEndWednesday, June 21, 1972 at 5:15 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 343-027 ↗

President Nixon met with Charles W. Colson to review the political landscape in the immediate aftermath of the Watergate break-in. The discussion focused on managing public relations, specifically utilizing support from veterans' organizations, and addressing rising meat prices through potential administration intervention. They also discussed concerns regarding media reports linking Bebe Rebozo to the Watergate burglars and analyzed current polling data on the President’s handling of the Vietnam War.

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Position in tape: 00:59:41 – 02:17:00

part A, 59:39

343a.mp3
343b.mp3
343c.mp3

On June 21, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, White House operator, and James J. Delaney met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 4:00 pm to 5:15 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 343-027 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 343-27

Date: June 21, 1972
Time: 4:00-5:15 pm
Location: Old Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

     Foreign policy
          -Nelson A. Rockefeller

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 5m 6s      ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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     International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT]

     Watergate
         -E. Howard Hunt
               -Work on campaign
         -Cubans
         -Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo
               -Veterans of Foreign Wars [VFW]
                     -Support for President
               -George S. McGovern
         -Amnesty
         -Radio Hanoi
               -Statement
         -VFW
               -Support for the President
         -Bugging reports
               -Reaction of members
         -Break-in
               -Wiretapping

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
Show the rest of the log (151 more lines)
[Duration: 4m 5s      ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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     Public relations
          -Letters
                 -Labor leaders
                 -American Legion Post Commanders
                 -VFW post leaders
                 -Veterans Administration [VA]
                 -Support for President’s policies
                 -Reactions

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 19m 15s    ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

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The President talked with the White House operator.

[Conversation No. 343-27A]

[See Conversation No. 25-111]

[End of telephone conversation]

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 32s     ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

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The President talked with James J. Delaney.

[Conversation No. 343-27B]

[See Conversation No. 25-112; one item has been
withdrawn from this conversation.]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Rebozo
         -Delaney's Florida apartment
              -Miami convention

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 6m 35s     ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5

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     The President
          -Image
          -Moscow trip
               -Impact
               -Timing
                    -ITT

         -Cambodia
              -Henry A. Kissinger
              -H. R. Haldeman
         -Moscow trip
              -Impact
         -Louis P. Harris poll
              -Trip to Moscow
         -The President’s trip to People’s Republic of China [PRC]
              -Time magazine

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 6m 42s     ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6

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    Economy
        -Meat prices
             -Previous Quadriad meeting
                   -The President’s view
             -Herbert Stein's view
             -Arthur F. Burns's view
             -George P. Shultz
             -Increases
                   -Action by administration
             -Strategy
                   -Imports
             -Public view
                   -Foreign beef imports
                   -Consumer Price Index [CPI]
             -Retailers
             -Colson's view
                   -Cattlemen
                         -George S. McGovern
             -Burns
             -Price freeze
             -Roll-back of prices

                      -The President's reaction
                 -Effect on voters

     Vietnam as political issue
          -The President's handling
               -People's reactions
                     -Polls
                            -Figures
                     -McGovern supporters
                     -George C. Wallace supporters
               -Cease-fire
                     -Impact

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 4m 39s     ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7

*****************************************************************

     Watergate
         -Jack N. Anderson column
               -Rebozo
                     -Bank
         -Cubans
         -Bugging
         -Real estate connection
         -Bernard L. Barker
         -Colson's son

     Delaney

Colson left at 5:15 pm..

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I got over it.
Four, three, four, five, six, seven.

— 5 min 12 s with no transcribed speech —

It was hard.
It was hard.
It was hard.
No, no, he went out of his way to be a leader, that's correct, but, sure, I don't believe that.
He didn't, he didn't break any laws, he did do some stuff, but not for us.
He would ask the white man questions, he'd ask him questions.
What's wrong with sending someone like this?
I don't know.
I don't understand why.
I think that...
I think that we could go from the terrorists to the CIA.
You know what?
You know what?
It's time for these people to leave.
They work for them.
But we need to get lost.
I'll tell you, I didn't think that this would have one.
I don't.
He's doing the rounds of all the affiliates.
Yeah, he's great.
And after that, he wanted to give me two messages.
He said, first of all, I'm going to tell you that 99.9% of our clients are clinics.
He said, I just talked about Amnesty, about how Vietnam, and the RPLW.
He said, I never mentioned my government's name, but he said, everybody's concerned about the Amnesty.
He said, it's a solidation of government.
Well, they don't know him.
And he said, I quote, Radio Hanoi and the government.
And he said, of course, there are a few people who like to say this, but Radio Hanoi said no.
And he said, I just want to tell you that as far as the veterans community is concerned, it's powerful.
And big in the LW is almost two million.
He said, you've got a campaign organization that will really go to town.
The second thing he said was, I hope you're not paying any attention to the bugging of the
He said, every place I go in small groups, I say, you read about it.
And he said, a very small group, I don't care.
And he said, the reaction of those who read it is, well, the Republicans wouldn't do that because they're in power.
And they could do it a hell of a lot more skillfully than that if they were there.
He said, you're all set about it.
Nobody believes that you would do it.
you know, surprised and shocked.
I believe it makes a horrible revolution just now, when people are all talking about wiretapping.
Now, let's just look at wiretapping.
The country's four of us, don't you think?
We're actually trying to control the country by wiretapping on this thing like this, so now we can break in the wiretap.
I don't know, I don't think, I don't know.
No, I said...
I said...

— 4 min 16 s with no transcribed speech —

I've also been intrigued with another thing, I don't know what about it, but it is that we did a personalized letter to every local labor leader in the country, every American Legion post commander, VFW post commander, VA post commander.
We sent out 45,000 letters, they were vaccinal.
Right.
He came out as not very much of a person, but I wish he'd thank them for their support.
We did this not only to support the people who could get it, but also to get the mainstream campaign.
Anybody who writes back better have a letter to know what you used.
Clearly, there clearly is not too much.

— 19 min 17 s with no transcribed speech —

Congressman Jim DeLay of New York City.

— 2 min 34 s with no transcribed speech —

Hello?
Yeah.
Hello?
Hi, Jim, how are you?
I just wanted to call to tell you that just one post that you just found.
I was sure glad to see you come through yesterday.
I hope that you can sort of support him in some of these tough problems in Southeast Asia.
It didn't hurt you too much.
Well, I'll tell you, I hope you take a good night out.
You get out Friday and take off a couple weeks.
Yeah, right.
I know what you do, right in the sand, right?
Right, right, fine.
Sometime I'll get down there while I drop into the bank and see my old friend Ramozo.
Yeah, you do, yeah.
All right, good, good, good.
And if the water is better on your side, go over and sit on the beach on my side.
It's pretty good.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
I wasn't going to.
Nice people.
Okay.
Wasn't he curtain?
Yeah.
He was marvelous.
Yeah.
Well, it still is, you know.
They've kept up with one thing.
A lot of places were taught that there is a date.
And so that way, I'm according to both of them.
He tells me the pub has deteriorated.
It's very good.
Isn't that a shame?
Remember, they used to have the best hamburger there that I've ever had.
Well, that's the building, yeah.
Is that good?
Yeah.
I couldn't agree, I looked.
Well, you just take care and I'll see you down there maybe sometime.
Fine, okay.
Tell about Bozo, about Jeff Delaney.
He probably doesn't, the Congress is double-banked in his bank.
He has an apartment in Sands.
He's coming to the Democratic government convention.
Who is he?
He has a penitentiary in the convention.
He said that...
Whatever you want, you know what I mean?
I mean, he's got a few of our, a few of our friends.

— 6 min 49 s with no transcribed speech —

the gutsy feeling that this is a guy who, like I said, has been pretty good.
That mining decision made them more of a veteran.
That's something that, oh, gee, I think I agree with you with that.
I'm not going back to that.
That was a turning point in my life.
I think there's a, they've had to have a very real shift.
There was no time anymore when this stuff came.
Right, if people come,
5 o'clock in the afternoon.
He said three cheaters ran away, and he carried the kid.
His speech, his speech wasn't good.
I noticed it wrong.
He said that wasn't how it was supposed to be.
That affected the suspense over the summer.
It affected the game a lot.
It affected that according to Harris, nobody expected him to accomplish anything.
Every impression of it is a strong word that goes into a lot of countries.
Basically, all the Chinese countries somehow feel the world is the same.
That's the reason.
So that's the line in time.
That line in time, I guess, is that it's required to be as simple as that.
I don't know who they were, but at least they taught it.
That's why I think they're...

— 6 min 43 s with no transcribed speech —

My feeling was kind of true.
The question really is, what do you want from me?
I signed the half-assed business.
The other one, Stein, that person, the way they go out, and that's trying to do, trying to do, of course, George, George, he's going to, he's going to, he's going to do it, he's going to do it, he's going to do it, he's going to do it, he's going to do it,
So what I'm concerned about is what was the last storm?
And if you move down, the prices go up.
And if you move, the weeks that they're going up, the weeks before they're going up.
I was in favor of your going all the way back.
The reason that I was in favor was that I thought the prices were going to go up this week.
They didn't.
And therefore, my goal is to have it ready again.
And by executive order, the president, the very next day,
The thing here comes out, you see it, and you say, like, it will just knock on the dollar business.
You take all the quarters and call it a new three-day, perhaps the next day.
You take all the quarters today, the first three months, and you call it three-day, and you say, all right, now, there are no domestic quarters, and you can buy a whole world, and the price is going up, like, you know,
I just couldn't believe you weren't going out and finding supplies in Australia or New Zealand or Argentina or wherever and there'll be no price increases to rebuild.
Well, the public has already been paying the increase.
They're paying it now.
It's beginning to show up in the synonyms, but you're about a month from now when this happens and the next CPI that you add may even get everything ready to go so that we can get it out of state.
I don't think that's a long period of time, because it will be hurt in the end.
It will be very much like the kind of war that was just during that psychology.
Of course, there was also the price to die on business.
You don't know how long it will last.
And you feel it.
The cattle growers understand this is not a decisive deal.
What would you say?
What would you say then?
He froze and died.
I didn't, I didn't appreciate this president before.
He wanted to do what he did.
Do the, do the political thing.
Roll it back.
If it crept up until I noticed, on September 1st, you know, it's not only free, it's going to roll back to 30 levels.
I think we have it for now.
Well, I...
I really find myself in a different place from Greg Cerdo and Greg Jones.
In this case, I'm with the children's side.
And you feel that the cattle growers understand this is not precisely even if they were against it.
They're rich, fat, sexy.
Where the hell are they from?
November?
I've talked to this president.
I talked to Clark when we were standing at the recommendation meeting before.
And he, I've made two other deals with him in the last three weeks.
I've put him in the president's meeting and said, if you tell me the story, the balance of this year at home, I'm going to support you.
I said, okay.
So this was, they won't put this with any president.
So we can keep a quiet response.
In fact, they were worried about the crowd, because they were concerned that the people would change.
What would you say then?
Hartley Burns even suggests that he froze the tribes.
I think that is the next step that we have to do.
I mean, in about a month later, we're going to have to increase the price of our food.
I think that is the next step that we have to do.
I mean, in about a month later,
I'd either, I'd either freeze it as present or, if you wanted to do what he did, do the, do the political thing, roll it back in the Senate.
If, if it crept up in July notice, and on September 1st you announced, I don't know if he agrees, but roll it back to June 31st, uh, we haven't, I think we haven't provided the funds.
It would have an exciting effect for me.
I hope that we're going to have to staff that up.
You wouldn't even have to worry about it too much.
Because if it lasted for six weeks, that's all you care.
You can use that issue in a campaign.
And get in public thinking about other things.
The food crisis is a terribly sensitive issue because people build it up in their own minds and they get mad.
And they've got nobody else to sort of take it out on them.
And they make it worse than it is.
And even when prices go up, people can't pay up.
And so there's the present issue of very strong order that people interpret it.
as either a rollback or a freeze.
What happened to the person?
They were sent there.
Finally, somebody's done something.
That's what it really is now.
He had to do it.
He's done something.
They aren't going to be there when I have an incident.
They're going to be there when I have an incident.
They're going to be there when I have an incident.
They're going to be there when I have an incident.
They're going to be there when I have an incident.
And that's the only issue that the owner had to see, that we have is going to be a better issue for the sport, and a better issue for the campus.
It would be a bad thing if it just stayed the way it is, if it just stayed the way it is today.
But the one issue, it'll be better.
It's all our committee, it's all of us.
It's all of us.
And there's more police than that bigger than Harrison.
Both of them.
That's my governance.
That's supposed to be the governance for our nation.
More people to lead with your hand than you have today.
And Harrison did admit it.
What is that?
Handling the war in Vietnam is up in May of 2759.
Bear in mind that most of the press is going to be in England.
The government here does very excellent, very, very important work in Israel.
Wanting to have the war in Vietnam, the handling of the war in Vietnam, 3759, what is now 1425, which is a significant number, but I mean, my agency,
Very, very significant.
64-25.
Approval.
Disapproval.
My governor vote is 39-51.
My Nixon vote is 80-10.
My Wallace vote is 76-14.
Next question, the impact of the mining on the war.
Length of the war, 18%.
I said yes.
Shortfall, 42.
That issue is struggling.
That issue today is impossible.
Take these figures.
And so, 82 to 11.
I figure 86% of the people will be able to still be involved in the event.
So they're quite significant in the event that we have this huge fire here.
Thank you.

— 5 min 13 s with no transcribed speech —

The suspected leader of the bugging group, Bernard Parker, is a joint investor in the real estate development of another company in Cuba, as well as Flores.
We let sources say that D.P.
Ramozo has been involved in some of the appeals.
Now, I've been unable to reach Ramozo or Swearer as for comment.
However, I was able to arrange an exclusive interview with some of the suspects in the D.C. jail.
They denied that D.P.
Ramozo had anything to do with the bugging attempt.
However, they took their instructions from Bernard Barker.
He never told them who was putting up the cash, their hotel accommodations, and the fashion we're working in before the legging was attempted.
And now all the legal expenses have been provided by a mysterious man like Mr. Jemmings.
Son of a bitch.
Yes.
Well, he's horrible, isn't he?
I don't know.
Anybody heard of him?
I think Roboto did.
Absolutely.
My 18-year-old son and I were watching him, and he said, that sounds like Roboto.
Isn't that awful?
Yeah, it's terrible.
Of course, he was mad.
He was mad.
I call him.
I just call him.
I'll call him.
Call him, greet him, then send him down.
Okay.
Yes, sir.
I held it by delay.
Yes, I will.
  • 025-108 3:30 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 3:30 pm.
  • 343-021 3:30 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 3:30 pm.
  • 343-022 3:30 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:30 pm and 3:56 pm.
  • 343-023 3:30 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:30 pm and 3:56 pm.
  • 025-110 3:56 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 3:56 pm to 3:57 pm.
  • 343-025 3:56 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:56 pm to 3:57 pm.
  • 343-026 3:57 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:57 pm and 4:00 pm.
  • 025-111 4:00 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:00 pm and 4:38 pm.

Conversation 343-027, June 21, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/343-027 (accessed November 14, 2026).