Conversation 399-002

TapeTape 399StartMonday, January 22, 1973 at 8:15 AMEndMonday, January 22, 1973 at 9:10 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On January 22, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 8:15 am to 9:10 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 399-002 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 399-2

Date: January 22, 1973
Time: Between 8:15 am and 9:10 am
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

       Vietnam settlement
            -Kissinger’s trip
            -Negotiations
                  -Status
                  -Prospects
            -South Vietnam
            -Kissinger's schedule [?]
            -Signing Announcement
            -William P. Rogers
            -Press relations
                  -Newspapers
                  -Washington Post
                  -Newsweek
                  -Skepticism
            -Withdrawal
                  -Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield [?]
                                -2-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                           (rev. Apr.-09)

                                                 Conversation No. 399-2 (cont’d)

      -Congressional relations
      -Laos and Cambodia
-Public Relations [PR] strategy
      -Critic’s response
             -Public opinion
             -Prolonging war
      -Kissinger’s statements
             -Bombing halt
-The President’s opponents
      -Destruction
      -Kissinger’s role
      -The President’s work on domestic issues
      -Herbert G. Klein
      -John A. Scali
-David K. E. Bruce
      -Reassignment
             -Ambassadorship
                   -Australia [?]
                   -Great Britain [?]
-Melvin R. Laird
      -Medal of Freedom
      -George W. Romney
             -John A. Volpe
             -Walter J. Hickel
-Bruce
-PR Strategy
      -The President’s opponents
             -Effect on peace
-Haig
      -Nguyen Van Thieu
-December 1972 bombing
      -Effect
-Le Duc Tho
      -Sovereignty
-Prisoners of War [POWs]
-South Vietnam
-Negotiations
-Announcement
      -Expected public response
      -Timing
                              -3-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                         (rev. Apr.-09)

                                              Conversation No. 399-2 (cont’d)

     -News reports
         -Initialing
         -Washington Post
         -Ronald L. Ziegler
-Haig
-South Vietnam
      -North Vietnam
      -Protocals
      -Thieu
-North Vietnam
      -Economic aid
            -Request
            -Signing
            -Congressional approval
            -Publicity
            -Kissinger’s trip
            -US – Democratic Republic Vietnam economic commission
            -South Vietnam
-Troop withdrawal provisions
      -POWs
-Possible statement by Kissinger
      -Mansfield
      -Frank F. Church
-Cambodia, Laos
-North Vietnam
      December 1972 bombing
-The President’s achievement
      -Practical solution
      -H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman [?]
      -George S. McGovern memorandum
            -October 1972 statements
-Thieu
-October 8, 1972 agreement
-National Council of National Reconciliation and Concord (NCRC)
-South Viertnam
-Rogers
-North Vietman
-Announcement
      -Timing
-Kissinger’s briefing
                               -4-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                          (rev. Apr.-09)

                                           Conversation No. 399-2 (cont’d)

      -Press relations
      -Haldeman
-Charles H. Percy
-Charles McC Mathias, Jr.
-Mansfield
-North Vietnamese
-Congressional relations
      -Resolution
             -War powers
      -Democrats
             -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
             -Jacob V. Javits
             -Republicans
-Rogers
      -Paris
-State Department
-Presidential authority
-Thieu
      -Saigon
      -Rogers
      -Economic aid
      -Elections
      -North Vietnam
      -Rogers
-Briefing
      -Congressional leaders
      -Elliot L. Richardson and Rogers
      -Kissinger's role
      -The President's role
             -Capitol Hill
      -Cabinet
      -Richardson
-Rogers
      -Signing
      -Congressional briefing
      -Press briefing
      -Chou En-Lai
             -Japan
-Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
-Thieu
                                               -5-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                         (rev. Apr.-09)

                                                                Conversation No. 399-2 (cont’d)

             -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
                    -Thieu
                          -Reliability
             -Response
             -International conference
                    -France
                    -Maurice Schumann
                    -Location
                          -Paris
                          -Copenhagen
                          -Vienna
                    -Schumann
                          -Location
                                 -Paris
                                 -Helsinki
                          -South Vietnam
                          -Denmark
                                 -Socialists
                                 -Copenhagen
                          -Paris
                                 -Opposition to The President
                                 -South Vietnam
                                 -Germany [?]
                          -Vienna
                                 -Communications
             -Signing
                    -Timing
             -Letter to Thieu
             -Haig
                    -Compared to Col. Richard T. Kennedy
             -Thieu

Kissinger left at 9:10 am.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Everything is a
And also, if you've been told to the south, be at the east, and then to the north.
I'd rather have you just spend the time to do that.
Anything that's going to be helpful to someone.
There's no reason at all why you should spend the time.
Not at all.
We put that aside.
We have to show the sign.
We have to show the sign.
I just want to be in the sign.
I just look forward to it.
Oh, yeah.
Let's say.
No, if they want to go Tuesday, fine.
No doubts.
You would have to.
You can't find it.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know if you have any questions about this, but if there's none, I'm going to call you in a second.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I don't know how they're going to do it.
It was me.
It's got to get back to me.
It's a very good thing.
It's a very good thing.
It's a very good thing.
It's a very good thing.
It's a very good thing.
It's a very good thing.
It's a very good thing.
It's a very good thing.
It's a very good thing.
The war.
The war.
war house war killing this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this
It has to be really standardized.
Otherwise, there's the other side of it.
It's that pretty complicated.
They just, you know, they've got to say, well, they're creating for us a floor of, uh,
.
.
.
.
.
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.
.
But I, you know, one of your greatest books is, you know, how to save your crew.
So I ended up with him on a mission.
And he is, he says, you know, that's what he said.
What you did in order to destroy the world, you know, that's what he says.
And it was one method that you used to destroy us.
I was doing all these goddamn domestic stuff.
But I think, I think you should make a crucial, I think it's going to be done.
I think there's a terrible feeling of, of everybody, I'll tell you, of our own people.
I mean, the lies, the scallions, the people like that.
You just give that little lie to them, just tear them to pieces.
It has to be done.
So, we've got to sort of, we've got to, oh, here's the thing, here's the thing, here's the thing.
He knows his parents and his truth.
He said, no one has ever faced such a thing.
And you know, we've never done anything for him.
He hated the job he had.
And he ought to consider giving him something in some form or another.
That's true.
What do you mean?
You want to do something?
You want to do something?
You don't know how to do it.
You don't know how to do it.
You don't know how to do it.
You don't know how to do it.
You don't know how to do it.
That's the problem.
I can't give it to him.
I'm not giving it to the other two.
That's the problem.
I'll give it to him.
I'll give it to him.
I'll wait.
If I don't want to give it to him, I'll give it to the other two.
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.
.
.
.
I can't.
But I can't do it right now.
That's why.
But I don't think Bruce wants anything.
Bruce is just the same thing.
I think what they're going to try to do is to say,
I don't want to destroy it.
Third, uh, they might have come back.
Fourth, it would be so good.
You just got to be prepared to lose your knowledge.
I don't know.
I think I'm just going to go ahead and throw that in.
That's right.
They'll tell you what's good and bad.
I'm not going to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.
And now let's, let's uh, let's you know that we can, we can get to it.
It goes through God's other degree that I just told you.
And I'm going to send these to his foundation.
He is going to take us up.
He is going to take us up.
And, uh, another thing that helps us, another thing that helps us is that we just have a much bigger pool where we can relax together.
... ... ... ...
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I think the people of the 70s, I think the people of the people, when we get through, you know, that's what we've got to do.
We've got to fight every little bit, every time we put our hands up.
I know this, but I've got to do it.
But that doesn't have to be true.
I'll tell you the obvious.
Well, you know, I mean, some people say, you know, how long is salt?
You know, I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're,
Now here you've got my brain, hearing papers, and listening to all the things out there.
But I took my children to the airport yesterday, and they were out there building a bridge, and people started barking around, and I stood up and said, Greg, what are you doing with the bridge?
You know, that's the best that I could do with it, you know.
And everything ends when it comes, so everybody's still, that's why I still don't get any success.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
Oh, no.
The papers keep saying that by the end of the week, it will be initial.
Hopefully, by the end of the week, it will be initial.
Why should we do that?
Why should we do that?
Why should we do that?
Why should we do that?
Why should we do that?
Most of the day, there's a very difficult reason for that.
Because the water feels when they touch it, and it feels when you touch it.
Back out of the water the other time, you can trust one day, things are going to get better.
I don't think it's time.
Nothing makes a difference.
You can have it put on.
At this point, you know.
You need to exist to contain yourself.
You need to stay in your own existence.
What we have now is the agreement is that we could get .
That's my message.
Understand that we have one minor void, which is the inspector.
So I recommend that you speak to the inspector, and, uh...
Uh... We have to figure out what you think about all of this stuff.
And, uh, you should understand that we, uh...
The way he has handled people now is to pay himself a piece of stuff.
He has not done anything in the evening to get them out of that.
Great.
Then there is that people come back.
They're going to deliver a note from you to Pat myself on the Tuesday afternoon at the same time.
As I know, the state has to dismiss the decision of the governor.
We can take the decision we did on the federal behalf of the state.
Right.
But they want to take your mention.
But they can't mention the timing.
They don't think that because they want five minutes.
So we're not going to give them the subject of congressional approval.
We need the subject of the Constitutional Constitution.
You left.
You left.
I was right.
Now that we have the time to discuss this case, it's important to discuss this case now.
But the way we've been handling this case for five years, we don't set out to make you waste your time without information.
But I think we
Let me ask you a couple of questions, sir.
We talked about the 16th, right?
The 16th, it starts around...
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This is so out of business with you.
This is what I have.
This is what you gave me as a gift.
You should have told me that.
You should have told me that.
You should have told me that.
You should have told me that.
I'm on a little rocket for the other day, before it takes out the tank.
It's going to be in the air, just in the air for now.
It's probably going to take out the tank.
I don't make any mistakes when I do it, I don't make any mistakes.
Actually, I'll let you move very well, I'm not saying anything.
I wonder what must be doing through the minds of the students and the students, the churches, the scholars, and the government.
I think you have to know.
They know that, but it's not true.
They know that.
And a lot of these things are supposed to happen, of course, in this year.
And it is just brilliant that we've now been able to do this.
We don't get a word of what's going on.
the government of the U.S. was really, yes, we really fought, we really, we really, we really scouted what, because we would, if so, the only possible solution to the war was, you know, we, uh, was a political government.
Bob showed me, uh, the column that Tom Grayfield wrote down, just wrote a flippant, uh, a flippant memorandum from the government, saying to a piece of paper that was a vote, so he was, uh, he had to fulfill the statement to the vote,
It was never in the business.
It was never good.
And there was only one solution.
Get out.
All of this, then I got it again.
I got through.
But this happened.
It was good.
It was made.
It was proposed.
It was all the time.
It was all the truth.
It was ordered.
It was a gang plan.
I mean, you ordered it, all right.
But it wasn't that you saw a document and said, I don't like that law.
What happened is we had a game plan that the other side should do.
Now that the other side tricked us into talking about the immune system and that education would be allowed, and on Covid-36 we fought it, that's another thing that you're approved of, I think, is what that's going to happen.
Take what we said we were going to do and see what we did.
We didn't even have an agreement at all, because they didn't even require me to be on the parade.
Right?
So they decided that even though they do, we wanted to make the match good.
I'm very clear.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We did.
I don't know if you've had a chance.
Yes, I have.
I have.
I think it makes all the points.
Some of us got a lot of good points.
I've had these drugs, these drugs.
So I don't have the courage to say that they can take us out of different positions.
I've had these drugs.
I've had these live abortions.
I've had these drugs.
I've had these drugs.
That's the way I call it again.
I don't think that I want to speak to you guys.
I don't know.
I mean, that is a secret.
I don't know.
I mean, that is a secret.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Thank you.
It's good.
I got everything in there.
I'll keep all the stuff, but maybe I'll stay in a more dramatic way.
Maybe we can do a flat and go on.
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.
I didn't actually finish that briefing
They're so dumb.
They've always given up.
Right.
Exactly.
That's very important.
Very important not to just give up.
Don't give up.
Don't give up.
Don't give up.
Don't give up.
Don't give up.
Don't give up.
Don't give up.
I don't want to talk to a person.
I don't want to talk to a guy.
I don't want to talk to a man.
I don't want to talk to a man.
I don't want to talk to a man.
I don't want to talk to a man.
I don't want to talk to a man.
I don't want to talk to a man.
I don't want to talk to a man.
I don't want to talk to a man.
I don't want to talk to a man.
I don't want to talk to a man.
They're really not patriotic enough to go like that.
I'm going to go out, this is what I'm getting, I'm going to go out again.
I'm going to be the next one.
I'm going to be the next one.
I'm going to be the next one.
I'm going to be the next one.
I'm going to be the next one.
I'm going to be the next one.
I'm going to be the next one.
But I do not want to cross that, uh, cross the line that comes from that.
There will be a resolution saying the United States shall not do this, shall not do that, and so forth and so on and so forth.
And if there's a case that's going to say, we cannot declare war, you know, we'll certainly not declare war.
But that issue has to come.
You know, remember that you ought to declare war for the Alzheimer's.
We're going to start to kind of press for a little bit.
That's going to be a struggle.
I don't know if they'll be able to do it.
If they squeal about it.
If they haven't had it yet today.
No, we know that, but let's not borrow from everyone.
I think it's a leader, but we have to realize, I just, I mean, there's a few of them, but there's a lot of those scams, scams, running around in Paris.
I won't put you in a client position, but everything that I do, I just want my administrative department to do this stuff, and I think they're probably the best department.
Mr. Bishop, I think, I think we need to do this.
I think she will suffer through this before we get out of here.
I think she will fall back.
And one reason why we suffered so much was to preserve presidential authority.
And that will be passed, I think, if that's not taken away.
And she'll bring it on her own.
Of course, that's what I'm saying.
That will, again, I think, make the impression that the president is being removed by his abortion.
If there was ever a one-man act,
That is the truth.
I think what's here is rather a sense of knowledge, it's not dying to get rid of it, it's not getting rid of it.
And if you want to turn out the big progression of testimony, you just don't understand what's going on.
So, uh, to do what's right, you know, we've got to do it.
We've got to do what's right.
He really doesn't understand this issue, but enough that he may suck it out, and that's good enough.
That's a matter of being polite to those people.
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
And I agree with you that this is not the time to join the issue, but it's also not the time to go to those.
Because Saigon is going to be a very precarious position, we sold it to Saigon.
But the argument that it's made possible to create some American assistance is now absolutely valid.
That is so the way.
That I think is going to be the problem.
They asked a great deal of questions.
We got a lot of good people.
So we always have to put it down right now.
But I think we have to be very careful about those, because if the disagreement lasts, he's the king.
That's better than a temperature.
But if you now guess another vote, then he is going to be in a very good position.
And he's agreed to this, because we told him it was the right way.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I'm just referring to him.
I'm referring to him.
I don't actually.
They'll, they'll, they'll, they'll squeal about the age, but we'll throw a little on that.
We'll get the age.
I'll say to a certain parent, you know, I've never got the right age, and I'll say, you know, I've got an age.
Right.
But, and then, the part that we'll be rating is the name part.
We'll be rating it on all of the supports that are being paid for this kind of work.
And they should pay for it.
But, you know, it depends on what he's going to have to cover next year.
I mean, I don't know what to expect, but I expect it to be good.
Yeah, we just got it.
We expect it to be good.
I can't do any kind of speculation to you on it.
I think it's sort of a godly response to that.
If anything, I would report on this.
I think that would be a sort of absolute.
I think that would be a sort of absolute.
I think that would be a sort of absolute.
As a matter of fact, they were supposed to ask the question.
They disagreed with all of the answers.
All the forces of the region.
That's the great thing about this.
They're telling us they want to know what we're doing.
That's the object they're telling us they're doing.
That's the business that they're going to have to do.
I understand.
I understand.
I'm trying to get at them, but we're going to be in trouble.
I think it's about as good as the meeting on the side, especially the fact that you had a meeting on the side that said, I do not agree with the start of activity, but you should.
I agree.
Because if we had to keep these guys, supposedly you're on your way back to start the call.
Of course, we need to use all that.
What if they do come in front of us and disagree and obligate us to do something that's like hers?
I don't think we're going to get any involved there again.
We will in the future.
We're going to have to marry boys.
And so that's the closest question to that.
You're going to get the questions that I may get from the leaders.
And also, we've got to get the rockers briefed on that.
You might start with yourself.
You might end up making a lot of trouble.
There will be a full drive this year.
Because they won't want to go out and say, that's very good job, and so forth.
They'll be lying and kidding around.
Oh, you want to figure it out, so we're out.
I think that's a good one.
We should kind of finish.
I think that's a good one.
I would like to take it over and not have a whole hell of a lot of questions.
I would like to take it over and not have a whole hell of a lot of questions.
What we ought to do is, I ought to start by saying that, uh, you know, I do want to, uh, I do want to start with a brief advice to this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this
Not apparently, I'm serious.
I'm serious.
I'd like to share it with everyone.
You can talk about it, so how's he doing?
I don't know.
He wasn't good, but I told him I wasn't coming along.
I don't know.
He was pretty good.
That was the best thing I've ever seen in my life.
Well, I think he's going to have a spectacular weekend.
Well, I think he's going to be on.
I don't know what he's doing.
Before he goes over to sign it, good God, we've got to greet the Congress.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I don't know.
He tried to reassure me like that.
Remember when he tried to reassure or show a lie that told you about Japan and the crash?
I was trying to scare him.
Japan, is that better?
Yeah, that'd be good.
So all these things we've been looking for lately.
Yeah, but they had none of the things that I'm coming to see came out of the other place.
Why do you think that?
Well, I think the two of us lost something most of the time in the city.
They didn't want to be, they didn't even want to call them.
They didn't want to be tagged off.
That's what I said.
If they haven't rejected it yet, then I didn't, I didn't respond.
I didn't put that to be tagged off.
I don't think I have the freedom to not go to the front line.
by, you know, you like, you basically like yourselves.
You know, it's, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know,
help you with both the Russian and the Chinese, the Russian and the Chinese, because they have to be distracted by the movement of any desire to destroy, to use up all their energy, to use up all their energy, whose promises are seen to be very serious.
They have only been made to serve as a plunderer's tool, whose are subjected to the abuse of maximum opportunity to use up all their energy, and other things like that.
I have a feeling that we may end up more concerned.
I think this is going to be exciting for what we're running.
I'll be in and out there.
I'll be in and out there going to see how most of us are doing.
If you're reliable, if you're not reliable, if you have a phone that you can do with me, I'll let you have everybody speak.
I don't know if this is the most specific word, but I'm sure that you're not going to be the one.
I don't know if it's going to happen, but I don't know.
Fine, fine.
Call them.
Call them.
But I think, too, that you should avoid any presidential approach.
I feel the president would be the president of the country.
We wouldn't normally be in part with the Swedes or anything like so on the history.
But no response to any of this.
I will call upon the international conference to make some changes.
It's got to be someplace.
What about Western?
What's going to happen?
And what about the properties that would make sure that the channel would be down there properly?
Well, I don't know.
We have sufficient property down there, Frank.
I know all the people there.
We're just going to help the left and the right, Frank.
We'll see what happens.
But if we do it in time, so it should be done by June.
What we do.
We all have to.
This is a quash place.
Sir, I ask.
We all do it.
But if we get down and don't do it, unless we can kill a bunch of them, I just ask.
So we've got to do it.
I agree.
That's where they prefer to go.
The problem with having an international conference is so much food for people to eat.
You know, if you are listening in, there is a worse place for that to happen.
Well, they ask for food for everybody.
I wonder if there's a better source of conversation in places like Tulsa.
Well, that would be so.
The food court has been telling people to do the same thing.
So they can cook an egg and then try to do their fun.
I don't know what to do with that.
I don't know what to do with that.
I don't know what to do with that.
I don't know what to do with that.
But our preference, really, my preference is not to have six seconds because it's time.
I like the six seconds.
It is a bad combination.
I like the six seconds.
I'm sorry.
Let me check on that second.
This is about when the, the, uh, when will they have the switch?
It's, uh, it's 17 o'clock.
How do you know what the date is?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I know that.
I know that.
I know that.
I know that.
I know that.
I have a lot of parents who are sorry for that.
I do have a few questions for them.
Some questions I've been told a lot.
I think that's a good idea.
I think that's a good idea.
Yes, that's a good idea.
That's a good idea.
I haven't yet believed that.
That's a good idea.
I haven't.
So, you know, you know, that's a good idea.
Sometimes.
... ... ... ... ...
I can't go back to jail.
They don't have .
I would .
Yeah, that's the best.
.
I don't think anything unexpected, the only thing is that the people they have, it's just the delay in things, they say it's about 10, but that's the maximum.
We can't, but I ask both, because then you have to get to the 130 yesterday,
Now, except that he's leaving, he's yelling at my brother.
Got it.
But then I wrote him another letter of your behalf, saying you're not going to get any money from that.
And I said, well, no, we're going to have to do that.
And he sort of sucked at it.
He said, well, he was very passionate about you.
Let's end it.
We're going to have to have some strong expressions of support.
And you have to commit to your speech that the G.B.M.
is.
Because this was not a full consultation.
Right.
That doesn't mean that you're going to lie.
It's going to be very, very drastic.
I'd like an outline of what you're going to say.
I'd like maybe 50% that don't give you the chance to talk about what's in there.
All right, great.
Well, I would give it up, and I would simply put in that part of it that would be useful for 10% who are not safe.
I don't want the President to say that.
He would hurt you.
He would hurt you.
He would hurt you.
He would hurt you.
He would hurt you.
Well, other than that, I feel really, when I hear God, it would be better and best for me to try to work with Hague.
He's somewhat more familiar with the nuances, with June and Kennedy, you see.
I have Kennedy M2, Colonel, but I'm at Kennedy M2.
Don't worry, Colonel, I think you should get a sort of Hague steel.
That would be special, because Hague knows what we've got.