Nixon, Ehrlichman & Sanchez on Federal Budget and Higher Education

2:37:21I think that's good.
2:37:24John Earl said he was ready to discuss the MIT matter with you.
2:37:29He did.
2:37:29If I remember any words.
2:38:13Do you know whether they finished the pandas or not?
2:38:28I believe she's back.
2:38:59How did it work?
2:38:59Were you able to get up to them?
2:39:07Did you pat them or anything like that?
2:39:09Did they allow that or how does it work?
2:39:15Yeah.
2:39:16But did they get a good picture of them?
2:39:22It got a lot of interest, but how did the people enjoy it?
2:39:27I just, you know, I didn't, I got that even the press was pleased.
2:39:53Isn't that great?
2:39:54Isn't that great?
2:39:56Oh, they'll come back and get them.
2:39:58That would be great.
2:43:09Well, let me just find out.
2:43:11Can you do anything?
2:43:12Yes, I found out we've already done something.
2:43:15We went through this currently once before.
2:43:18Oh, I know.
2:43:19We got 30% off.
2:43:21And we can slice everything except a Defense Department program that I don't know anything about.
2:43:27For the developmental laser, a laser gun to hit satellites.
2:43:34Okay, well...
2:43:36Then the only question is, how do you want to do the rest of it?
2:43:38The rest of it amounts to $31 million.
2:43:42And we can, yep, that's all.
2:43:45Well, that's still a lot of money.
2:43:46It's to them.
2:43:47It'll be everything.
2:43:47No, thank you.
2:43:54No, I'm going to have to do a little thing.
2:43:58I've got to make a speech.
2:44:00Oh, good.
2:44:00I want this.
2:44:01I believe I'm taking a hard look at the next year's budget to see if Georgia's figure is going to kill it.
2:44:09But I want you to look at it.
2:44:10This is something you can follow up on.
2:44:13I think higher education is a disaster in this country.
2:44:17I just think we're subsidizing it too goddamn much.
2:44:22And I really want to jump the hill on that.
2:44:25That means science, you know, that kind of thing.
2:44:28It's just a substitute for left-wing professors, you know what, right?
2:44:32Right.
2:44:33And David may break his resignation, but that's all right.
2:44:38Well, we've got to rejigger that whole science thing.
2:44:41It's awful.
2:44:42It's incestuous.
2:44:43It's unbelievable how they just kind of pat each other.
2:44:47But I want the science thing cut.
2:44:49Let's cut that 50%.
2:44:50Let's just make a...
2:44:52Or is that too late?
2:44:53I don't know.
2:44:54I just don't know what the numbers are.
2:44:57Let me find out.
2:44:57I'll cut it at 33.
2:44:58I will.
2:44:58I will.
2:44:59I'm going to take the budget basis.
2:45:01George has raised the budget question.
2:45:03Now, I'm going to start with this.
2:45:05What would you do on this?
2:45:06Well, I'd say I'm surprised the numbers are as low as they are, but it's partly accountable for the fact that we've been doing some of this as we've gone through.
2:45:14Now, there's two ways of going on this.
2:45:16One is... What is this, a direct subsidy?
2:45:19Well, it's the ATWS contracts up there...
2:45:22Transportation has contracts up there, and they've got research of different kinds going on.
2:45:27Plus, there's grants for assistance and all that kind of stuff.
2:45:33All the grants are out, period.
2:45:34I've asked CAP to inventory everything that this $31 million goes for on a list.
2:45:44We don't have any way of getting that by just punching a button.
2:45:46So it'll be Monday.
2:45:47They work on it.
2:45:48I understand.
2:45:48I'm just trying to get it done.
2:45:50But I also would like to see it done for other schools, too.
2:45:53I just don't kind of understand it.
2:45:54All right.
2:45:55Stanford, the whole goddamn project.
2:45:58Let's go ahead.
2:45:58All right.
2:46:01That's my opinion.
2:46:02So that it is not picking them out.
2:46:04But I just think across the board, we're going to start getting this higher education.
2:46:07The grants are going to go down.
2:46:10The grants are out.
2:46:10I've got two ways to go on this.
2:46:12And one of them
2:46:14would be to just sort of fight cancellation of existing contracts, but there's penalty clauses and we catch lawsuits.
2:46:20The other is to just wait two months and not refund them again.
2:46:24See, we're at the end of the fiscal year.
2:46:26How do you avoid them?
2:46:28Well, we just pass instructions to all these departments that contract.
2:46:33Contract number 31-509 will not be refunded.
2:46:35All right, fine.
2:46:36Let's do that.
2:46:38Get this ready.
2:46:38Tell Pat what I want to do, what I want to do for our business, and that includes everybody, even the University of Chicago.
2:46:43I don't care what it is.
2:46:45There are going to be no more grants, period, for any teaching assistants of any kind, and so forth and so on.
2:46:53I mean, we're going to have an austerity budget.
2:46:56I did Bob, or George, look at George's memo.
2:46:58I saw it.
2:46:59Come on.
2:47:01And we've got it on a sturdy budget.
2:47:04And one place we've got to cut like that was in education.
2:47:07Now, not in the, I'm not going to say not any place, but I know higher education is the place to cut, Jonathan.
2:47:16we'll we'll get at this figure out all the whole thing figure out how to do all the grants all the teaching assistance is going to be that whole damn uh business of the uh of the national science foundation that's great what do you think sir i'm all for it yeah because i you know 16 million dollars a year going into that
2:47:40Well, of course, your argument that they will make on the other side is, well, this is basic research, and this is essential for this or the other thing.
2:47:47But there are other ways of getting that.
2:47:50You know, get McGruder on, is he still with us?
2:47:53Oh, yes.
2:47:54Well, get McGruder to say, look, we want to take the hell out of this.
2:47:57Put it in the restaurant.
2:47:58We'll be laughing, Peterson will be laughing.
2:48:00I am not going to give in this time.
2:48:02I'm not going to give in.
2:48:03It's like a light cap, you know.
2:48:05Well, that's for sure.
2:48:06Just because it's cutting.
2:48:08In fact, he's very enthusiastic on that.
2:48:10He jumped right in.
2:48:11Tell him I want to deliver the whole country, okay.
2:48:14And slice it up.
2:48:16Now, get also, does he have the National Science Foundation figures in on this?
2:48:21No, this just goes to MIT.
2:48:22The National Science Foundation?
2:48:25Yes, from the whole government.
2:48:27You sure?
2:48:27Yes, sir.
2:48:28Yes, sir.
2:48:28Because I asked him about this, and I said, now, what kinds of things are in here?
2:48:34And he gave me a description, and I'm sure National Science Foundation did 31.
2:48:38Now, they have a management contract that's not in here.
2:48:42They manage Lincoln Labs, but that's a cost-less contract, so it wouldn't be any scale.
2:48:49As a matter of fact, we have trouble keeping these managers, so I understand.
2:48:53That's kind of, you know, I understand.
2:48:55I understand.
2:48:56But the thing that hits them in the gut is this grants for teachings.
2:48:59If those are finished, don't you question the decision?
2:49:05No, I think that's fine.
2:49:06I think there will be a point beyond which
2:49:10you can't go.
2:49:10An irreducible minimum.
2:49:12Well, because, sure, it's like laser.
2:49:14That I understand.
2:49:15But, I mean, there will also be irreducible minimums in some other areas.
2:49:21I just think, on an individual basis, you'll agree we don't want to cut a particular thing that's going on.
2:49:28I don't know what they might be.
2:49:30But rather than to just...
2:49:31If you start looking for exceptions, that's the problem.
2:49:35You'll end up with doing nothing.
2:49:37Well, okay.
2:49:39I'll make sure we don't
2:49:41All right, you know what I mean?
2:49:42Tell Cap that I want these.
2:49:44Cap is pretty good at this.
2:49:46He's excellent.
2:49:48And I just want you to leave a little tiny loophole.
2:49:51I've been leaving loopholes and very little has been done.
2:49:56Okay.
2:49:56Well, we'll cut this one's head off for sure.
2:49:59And I agree with you.
2:50:00And I just, and I do it two months from now, I'll start a refund.
2:50:03And then let them, they come down here and just let them talk to the secretary.
2:50:08Yeah, I agree with you.
2:50:09Fine.
2:50:09I mean, Lois,
2:50:11Faster than a stand-up.
2:50:13That's the way we'll handle it.
2:50:14Okay.
2:50:15What are you speaking to, then?
2:50:16American Enterprise Institute.
2:50:18Oh, it's the Lourdes Conservatives over there.
2:50:21Right.
2:50:21Good.
2:50:22I've hired them to do a lot of studies.
2:50:24Yeah.
2:50:24So, so... And so that way, uh, the, uh, they seem to need your exercise yesterday, and we'll get the police to do what's worth doing.
2:50:33Good local coverage.
2:50:35A little national blood went out on the wires, and Colson's going to take a reading now on how much of the feed was used by the regional stations.
2:50:45Yeah.
2:50:45And we'll give the old people just how to do these things.
2:50:49Well, how much is used is, don't we concern that some, how much is used or how little is used?
2:50:56Let me say this, sir, two useful words.
2:50:58One, clearly, a lot of under pressure, those sons of bitches out for us.
2:51:01That's worth doing it for.
2:51:02Did I say clearly?
2:51:04The second point is that how much you get
2:51:11networks and so forth, it depends on what other news there is out there.
2:51:15Yesterday they got the war news, they got the IDT news, and they got the economic news, who calmly made a speech, and so what the hell.
2:51:23You know very well how little we get.
2:51:24So my point is, just keep feeding it in.
2:51:28You've also got my view about the Saturday Sunday story.
2:51:31I want a Sunday story every week, every Saturday.
2:51:33There's an interesting thing that happened yesterday.
2:51:37It certainly wasn't by contrivance.
2:51:40But I went in there and I laid an hour of facts on them, which they might not have used.
2:51:47You went out and did a two-minute picture.
2:51:51And so what we got was the picture.
2:51:55And then a whole lot of text about crime rates and about the LEAA and about all kinds of stuff.
2:52:02I watched all of the feed here.
2:52:05And somehow or another, if we can figure out those combinations.
2:52:09Figure out a way to get a picture.
2:52:11Yeah.
2:52:11And make a museum.
2:52:12That's it.
2:52:13And I can load the text on it.
2:52:15You don't have to go out and do any more than you did yesterday, which was, you know, you said cut it in half, and that was a little easy.
2:52:22And save the city.
2:52:24Yep.
2:52:24Good picture.
2:52:25And then they carried a tremendous amount of the industry.
2:52:30We'll think it through and see what kind of combinations we can work.

Nixon, Ehrlichman & Sanchez on Federal Budget and Higher Education

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 20, 1972

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