Nixon phone call with Hoover on FBI and Law Enforcement

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Hello.

Mr. President, Mr. J. Edgar Hoover, return your call.

Hello.

Yes, Mr. President.

Hi, Edgar.

Fine, thank you.

I was doing a little thinking last night, and you noticed where this clown, Harrison Williams, was claiming that we were...

He said that we were blocking an attempt to let the FBI go in and do help out.

Yes.

We answered that claim.

He's answered it, and we answered it here.

And, of course, you know the directive in November covers that.

It does.

And I also saw your letter, which indicated, my God, in New York, you're practically running the thing.

They are?

Well, which is good.

I mean, you're running it.

You see, Mr. President, in all of the killings of police officers, as I pointed out, I think, in a recent memorandum to you, the local police, within 30 days, apprehend 96.5%.

It's just one thing we aren't needed.

Here's what I had in mind.

Now, let me just run this by you to think about it, and I'll just answer it.

And I'm not thinking of a public announcement on this, incidentally, so much as to just as a question of tone and so forth.

First, I think it would be the reason we've got to oppose something like the Schweiker bill is it would get the Bureau immediately involved in every police task.

That's very true.

And this we must not do.

That would be a national police thing.

Right.

That we mustn't have.

The second thing is, however,

On the other hand, if on a case-by-case basis, you could determine that you would want the Bureau to get in, in other words, where you sort of had the scent or the smell of the national conspiracy thing, then that's a different matter.

Now, would it be, for example, possible to say something like this, if you were to get a directive

to the effect that, of course, this would have to be by, I suppose, approval by the Attorney General or something like that, where it said that where law enforcement officials, I mean, where there are attacks on law enforcement officials and where there is evidence of or suspicion of

of, uh, of, uh, of, you know, of, uh, of, uh, not conspiratorial, but you know what I mean, other, other than just the crime of violence.

Yes.

You know, the, the kind of thing like the Panthers in the left.

Like Panthers always.

Right.

The Democrats always.

Right.

Something that's, where, where it's basically that kind of a, of an action.

Yes.

But then the Bureau on a case-by-case basis, uh, should go in and will go in and, and, uh,

do everything that it can.

Now, what I'm really trying to get at is this, is to find a way to get a handle so that you could go in only on cases where you want it, and that would mean cases where it did appear as if it were this other thing, and then second, to go in with everything you've got.

In other words, you could do with electronic and everything.

Is that already covered, or what would you say?

Well, I'll tell you what

is being done, it might be well to consider a public statement along that line, but New York, for instance, we've got, I think, 80 men on a special squad, and I've instructed the assistant director of New York to take it as a bureau case and break it as a bureau case if they possibly can, but without ruffling the feelings of the local authorities, but don't tell the local authorities we've taken over.

In other words, it doesn't relieve Commissioner Murphy of the responsibility of doing the job.

And of course, if he knew that we were taking it over, he probably would scream to high heaven or leak something to the press.

Now, we've done the same thing down south with this little girl.

who was murdered, you know.

Now, that's what I had in mind as far as procedures are concerned.

Down south, you're doing that because of the civil rights.

The possibility of civil rights.

Because now the local authorities have got these four white fellows locked up, and they will try them, I guess, for murder.

But in the meantime, we want to make certain if there's any federal jurisdiction, and the local authorities kind of begin to back off or go easy, then we can go into the federal court on civil rights cases.

Well, now, if Ziegler is asked about that case, could he say that the FBI, well, I suppose it's already, is it out that you are investigating to see if there's any civil rights thing or something like that?

I don't know whether it's out.

I know we went into it immediately upon happening.

Fine.

Well, now, with regard to the New York...

I think Mr. Ziegler could, if that question is asked, could say so.

Yeah, with regard to the police thing now...

uh... what i'm getting at is that i want to get a position where we can where you know my god a fellow like williams he ought to be in jail himself well he is well of course he's a cheap politician yeah well you know the fellow's got a you know he's got a very shady reputation for crying out loud for him to take because what i what i'm really trying to get at is a way to to so that to reassure people that we are doing everything we can i know you are yeah and incidentally i want to as i say

I want to keep the Bureau out of everything that it doesn't want to get into.

Yes.

I don't want to do anything that will get the Bureau in trouble.

But if there's any more handle that you need, I'll sign a directive to you if you want.

I'll have the Attorney General sign one.

What I plan to do, Mr. President, I've ordered these chiefs of police in here for next Wednesday afternoon.

After I meet them?

No, before you meet them.

Oh.

I want to get them in here in my office, and I want to go down about this Williams bill and these other bills, about a dozen up there, to get them all in opposition to it on the grounds that they have batted 96.5%.

And I have in mind telling them that after the conference with you at the White House,

On Thursday, if after that conference the press asks them any questions, the line of statements they should make.

In other words, that they are doing it and they're getting the fullest cooperation from the FBI and all that sort of thing.

In other words, I wanted to get them lined up as to the atmosphere.

Now, we tend to do the same thing in regard to the 100th.

that come in the following Monday for three days training.

Of course, both of those groups you will speak to.

But I thought these officers who are coming in from the sheriffs and the police chiefs, that I ought to get them in this room here and just tell them what the picture is and what the opposition, our opposition to a bill being enacted and the impossibility of it, and that they ought to take the lead and ought to publicly announce the accomplishments of 96.5%.

Now, of course, that doesn't take care of getting out a statement from the administration that will indicate that the administration is going to go in on any of these cases where there may be a possibility of a federal violation.

You see this Dan Williams, he wants to make it like another Lindbergh case, like the kidnapping, where there's a presumption of federal jurisdiction.

24 hours that we would be in on every case in the country.

I know it wouldn't work.

Well, the interesting thing is that here you've got Williams doing this and Schweiker.

Now these two fellows are both doves.

They're both against strong law enforcement and here they are out leading the charge.

Well, of course, it's the same old thing of attacking you and the administration.

That's what it really amounts to.

They're not sincere in what they're doing at all.

And, of course, Williams is the last man who should have been doing any talking.

His background is so bad that it ought to be looked into itself.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

Well, there might be the place for some statement, then, if we could... Let me...

I'll tell you what.

I'm not... We're not going to do anything.

If you can kick it around in your shop...

I'm going to kick it around here.

And then raise... And you and Mitchell, if you've got a recommendation as a statement that we could make...

That is, understand, nothing has to be done this week.

That's how it may be next week.

Yes.

After our meeting.

But we have to have a statement to come off of that meeting with the chiefs of police.

Maybe by that time we could say that the FBI will do that.

Even repeat what we ordered in November.

Yes.

People forget what the FBI is already doing.

Exactly, and the order in November is very sweeping.

That's right.

And I... Matter of fact, maybe we've got to take that and boil it down and hypo it and says the Bureau from do that and make it appear like a new thing.

Exactly.

See?

And put any new element in it that you can't.

I'll get to work on that today.

Talk with the Attorney General today about it.

Let me say, there's no...

Urgency, I don't want to do any...

It's Memorial Day weekend.

I don't want to do it.

But you talk to Attorney General and say that we want to get a way to state this so that it's a new story when we hit it on Wednesday.

Fine.

Thursday.

Fair enough?

I'll take care of that.

Fair.

You work out something.

I'll do that, Mr. President.

Thank you.

Nixon phone call with Hoover on FBI and Law Enforcement

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on May 28, 1971

Cite this conversation

Nixon phone call with Hoover on FBI and Law Enforcement

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on May 28, 1971

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Cite this conversation