Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 12 › Conversation 012-028

Nixon phone call with Mitchell on Supreme Court appointments

Thursday, October 21, 1971 · 9:33 AM–9:39 AM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Mitchell, John N.Conversation012-028 on Tape 12 (tape position 00:46:11–00:50:28)StartThursday, October 21, 1971 at 9:33 AMEndThursday, October 21, 1971 at 9:39 AMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 012-028 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417191567 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Mitchell discuss the strategy for upcoming Supreme Court appointments, specifically weighing the candidacy of Senator Howard H. Baker, Jr. against William H. Rehnquist. Nixon expresses significant concern regarding Baker’s academic credentials and insists on verifying his law school record before making a final commitment. Ultimately, they decide to decline Baker for the current vacancy based on political considerations and the strength of Rehnquist’s superior academic record, while leaving the door open for Baker’s future appointment.

Audio

Download MP3 · 5.9 MB

NARA Description

On October 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 9:33 am to 9:39 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 012-028 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 12-28

Date: October 21, 1971
Time: 9:33 am- 9:39 am
Location: White House Telephone

John N. Mitchell talked with the President.

[See Conversation No. 281-7]

     Supreme Court appointments
          -Howard H. Baker, Jr.
              -The President’s decision
                    -Options
              -Law school record
                    -Lewis F. Powell, Jr.
              -The President's and Mitchell's views
                    -William H. Rehnquist
                          -Law school record
                          -Qualifications
                    -Baker

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).

President, sir.
Hello.
Good morning, Mr. President.
You working out?
Baker wants to go, and I told him that you still had the options open, and I would refer to you as availability.
Well, he wants to go now, huh?
Yes, sir.
Well, God damn it, you couldn't talk him out of it, huh?
Well, not on the basis in which we'd been pushing him into it.
But I went through the same routine and I think you have an option if you want to go the other way.
I don't think that it's going to disturb him too much if you use your options in another direction.
if you feel stronger in that other direction.
have you got any have you got anything this will decide me a lot could you take five minutes off and then call me back what was his record in law school and so forth do you know anything about that no but i presume we might be able to i need to know i need to know i mean i want to know whether he's really whether he was just a playboy or whether he can he buckled down and did things because that i prepared preparing my remarks now and it's all revolves around that these are guys that are qualified you see
All righty, I'll try and dig that out as fast as we can.
No, you think we are in a position of telling him no, no, no.
We just feel that the political considerations you've raised are hard or such that you shouldn't go.
Yes, we can put it on that basis.
Yeah, that I thought about it and that I thought overnight, too, about it, and I just think it's political considerations that the judgment is that way.
If he wants to go at a later time, why, the place will be open for him.
All right, sir.
I can put it that way, see.
I think we ought to get back to him right quick on it, though.
Yeah, all right, fine.
Call me right back.
I need to know what his law school record was.
Well, do you still want to keep your options open, or do you just want me to turn them off?
No, I want the option open until I see what kind of a record he had.
If he had an outstanding record, so that I can say that he and Powell both had outstanding records, that's one thing.
But if it's a jackass record, then I really think I'm going to close the option and go the other way.
I have a feeling it ought to go the other way.
That's just my gut reaction.
What do you think?
I feel that way for the better of the court, and I think that the PR on it just about would break even, I think, in the basis of acceptance.
On the one side, you've got two Southerners, which is not good.
On the other side, you've got a man who's unknown, but with a hell of a record.
The unknown thing with Rehnquist is going to really not wash good if he was high in his class.
Was he first or second or something like that?
He was first in his class.
Do you think he was first?
He was first, yes, sir.
Well, that's a hell of a thing.
Phi Beta Kappa, of course.
Phi Beta Kappa, first in his class.
That's right.
Law clerk to one of the great judges of this century.
And practiced law as a lawyer's lawyer and so forth.
Now, but I really think we ought to go that way.
All right, well, I'll turn Baker.
I think you ought to say hard under view of the fact that you've had some doubts, but also, frankly, the president really feels that...
The political things that you've raised are questions.
And the place will be open for you later if you want it.
Because we need two Southerners on that court in any event, you know.
And maybe you'll want to take another crack at the leadership and so forth, and we don't have many voices in the Senate.
Okay?
Yes, sir.
I'll turn him off.
I'll take breakfast.

Also recorded on October 21, 1971

  • 012-027 9:33 AM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 9:33 am.
  • 281-007 9:33 AM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:33 am to 9:39 am.
  • 281-008 9:39 AM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 9:39 am and 9:45 am.
  • 012-029 9:45 AM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 9:45 am.
  • 012-030 9:45 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 9:45 am to 9:51 am.
  • 281-009 9:45 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:45 am to 9:51 am.
  • 012-031 9:51 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:51 am and 10:51 am.
  • 012-032 9:51 AM · 20 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:51 am and 10:51 am.

All 128 conversations from October 21, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 012-028, October 21, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417191567). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/012-028 (accessed October 30, 2026).