Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 30 › Conversation 030-005

Nixon phone call with Ehrlichman on OEO legislation and Presidential veto

Tuesday, September 19, 1972 · 1:53 PM–1:54 PM ET · White House Telephone · 2 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation030-005 on Tape 30StartTuesday, September 19, 1972 at 1:53 PMEndTuesday, September 19, 1972 at 1:54 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 030-005 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman consulted on the viability of sustaining a presidential veto regarding Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) legislation. They assessed the reluctance of congressional leaders like Gerald Ford and Hugh Scott to support the veto, noting Ford's specific preoccupation with a Civil Air Patrol program in his district. Nixon directed Ehrlichman to consult with William Timmons for a more definitive assessment of the legislative prospects before moving forward.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Yeah.
One thing that did not come through in that meeting this morning that I wanted you to give me your evaluation of is what is the prospect, John, on the sustaining of that veto?
On OEL?
Yeah.
They think it could be sustained in the House.
Well, that's in one place, right?
That's good.
It could be if you had to do it.
Yeah.
Now, that's not a firm count, but it's the best estimate they could give.
Now, obviously, Jerry had no stomach at all for it.
Nope.
That's right.
And neither did Hugh.
Right.
Hugh had none at all for it.
Right.
And Jerry had none.
I didn't know what the hell Les was.
Well, I suspect Les would be the guy that would have to carry the hod for us.
Jerry has got some kind of romance going with the CAP program in Grand Rapids.
Oh, I know.
He's got one that works there.
Yeah.
You say today is the last day?
Yes, sir, on this one.
Right.
Yeah, well, I'll think about it a little bit more.
Why don't you take a further check with Timmons on that?
All right.
All right.
See what his honest feeling is.
All right.
Bye.
Give it a whirl.

NARA Description

On September 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 1:53 pm to 1:54 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 030-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 30-5

Date: September 19, 1972
Time: 1:53 pm - 1:54 pm
Location: White House Telephone

John D. Ehrlichman talked with the President.

[See Conversation No. 357-5A]

       Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO] legislation
              -Sustaining veto
                     -House of Representatives
                     -Gerald R. Ford
                     -Hugh Scott
                     -Leslie C. Arends
                     -Ford
                             -Civil Air Patrol program
                                     -Grand Rapids, Michigan
                     -Timing
                     -William E. Timmons

Also recorded on September 19, 1972

  • 030-003 12:47 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 12:47 pm.
  • 030-004 12:47 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:47 pm and 1:53 pm.
  • 357-001 12:51 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:51 pm and 1:45 pm.
  • 357-002 12:51 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:51 pm and 1:45 pm.
  • 357-003 12:51 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Manolo Sanchez, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:51 pm and 1:45 pm.
  • 357-004 12:51 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:51 pm and 1:45 pm.
  • 357-005 1:45 PM · 31 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, John D. Ehrlichman, unknown person(s), and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:45 pm to 3:10 pm.
  • 030-006 2:01 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 2:01 pm to 2:02 pm.

All 46 conversations from September 19, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 030-005, September 19, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/030-005 (accessed October 1, 2026).