Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 36 › Conversation 036-139

Nixon phone call with Colson on John C. Stennis and FBI

Tuesday, January 30, 1973 · 9:55 PM–9:57 PM ET · White House Telephone · 6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation036-139 on Tape 36StartTuesday, January 30, 1973 at 9:55 PMEndTuesday, January 30, 1973 at 9:57 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 036-139 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss the recent shooting of Senator John C. Stennis, expressing concern over the political impact and the potential for a violent backlash in the South. Nixon mandates that the FBI take immediate jurisdiction over the investigation and instructs his staff to publicize his personal involvement to ensure a robust law enforcement response. The conversation also briefly touches on the political implications of gun control legislation regarding 'Saturday night specials' and the impact of busing policies.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Yes, sir, Mr. President.
I had talked to people about the Stennis thing, Mrs. Stennis and all the rest.
That's a hell of a thing.
God, it is.
I talked to her, and I asked her, and she, of course, being a nice southern lady, didn't say.
She said they were two very young boys, and she heard them say, we got him, we got him, or something like that.
22 pistol, and then I heard that from other sources, there were some sources,
here does anybody know though because nobody really saw them did she see them i think she did but she didn't say they were blocks to me well i can check uh see what's moving on the uh wires well i i got it checked i got it all checked i don't know it makes much difference does it
It's going to stir the living hell out of Mississippi.
Oh, Jesus.
The whole South.
I mean, if these are like that sniper down in New Orleans, you know.
Yep.
It's just so senseless.
Iron Man, you know, driving his own car.
He's over 70 years of age, working his ass off, getting home around 8 o'clock.
Two jackasses come up there and get his wallet, and he's got a 5-bit of Kappa key in his watch.
Now, that's a hell of a note, isn't it?
And apparently he fought.
Apparently that was the reason that, or at least what I had, is that he put up a fight.
Of course, we don't know.
Well, he probably knows.
I just told Bull to tell Ziegler.
I mean, our people don't quite think of this sort of thing.
great to get his ass out there, and the FBI in this, they were getting it through the Secret Service and through, they don't have any of this, and if a United States Senator is shot, it's an FBI case instantly, isn't it?
Yes, sir, and it's also in the District of Columbia, which I think gives us, you know, apart from that, I'm going to leave it to the District of Columbia Police, I mean, as good as they may be, but if it's a United States Senator, it's an FBI case.
I think that's right.
Get that damn bureau in it, and drag that in that city.
I ordered him in.
I wanted a story out that I'd ordered him in.
I told a little while ago to be sure that you were personally involved in the case.
I just told him.
Not only did I ask, but I told him to tell Ziegler to say that I had ordered the FBI into the case.
You know, you've got to play these things up.
Oh, God, yes.
You know, there'll be a...
If anything happens to the Senate, he's...
He has kind of succeeded to the mantle that Dick Russell had in the South.
Yeah, then you had to get Symington.
Oh, geez, isn't that awful?
He's the next man.
Yeah, he is in the Armed Services.
Terrible.
He's unbelievable.
Another hell of a problem if he's the guy.
Of course, he's the guy that he's getting on here.
Senile.
Yeah, he was senile when he was young.
Yeah, something went wrong with him when they had that operation in his neck.
He sure did.
last week i really stirred up right yes sir and uh what is that about bussing bussing yeah we took him to the supreme court we lost but uh at least it was the justice department that uh i didn't know we'd lost what happened the supreme court denied cert but of course the bussing order has gone into effect but at least the news was out that we that you had asked the uh you had ordered the justice
you were on the side of the great majority of the people out there.
It's an explosive issue.
And this is the same thing.
This is exactly the same kind of a problem.
Certainly related to it.
I mean, it's a tragedy, you know, there's so many damn decent black people and then
This kind of irrational thing is so unbelievable.
Well, this has to be people who are hopped up on narcotics to go out and make
At least I hope that Saturday night special legislation, at least we're supporting that.
You know, we're not for gun control generally, but we're here for that.
God damn it, that ought to be passed, or was it passed?
No, it hasn't been passed, Mr. President.
How's the matter with it?
Well, you know, that's gotten...
The gun lobby?
It caught up with me.
No, we've never really been able to define what a Saturday night special is.
I think the...
I'm not sure that... Well, they better... We've come across very well on that issue.
Then we better damn well be for it now, huh?
Yes, sir.
any qualification well after the wallace thing i thought there'd be a hell of a backlash on that but of course the saturday night specials have really
Not been involved in any of the celebrated cases.
This apparently was, though, according to the doctor I talked to.
Oh, is that so?
I didn't know that.
It was a .22, one of those small handguns, you know.
Yeah, that may well have been.
So, good God, a .22, you know, good God, those things are just nothing.
In other words, it had been a .45 that had killed him.
Oh, good God, yes.
It didn't go through him, you know, it just went into his chest.
It didn't go through.
Well, and the prognosis may be all right.
I talked to...
No, he said a younger man, there'd be no worry about it.
He said with someone over 70, it's a... Wow.
He walked into the house afterwards.
Was that so?
I didn't know that.
Yes, sir.
He was conscious all the time.
Isn't that something?
Well, you see, that's not much of a...
So that's a good sign.
Well, the main thing is not just my interest, but I'm ordering these pictures off there.
I have to get out there and put a dragnet in this city.
That's good.
Okay.
I'll do it.

NARA Description

On January 30, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 9:55 pm to 9:57 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 036-139 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 36-139

Date: January 30, 1973
Time: 9:55 pm - 9:57 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 406-51]

       John C. Stennis shooting
            -The President’s conversation with Coy H. Stennis
            -Assailants
                  -Race
                  -Southern reaction
                         -New Orleans sniper
            -Robbery
                  -Stennis resistance
                  -The President’s conversation with Stephen B. Bull
                         -Ronald L. Ziegler
                         -L. Patrick Gray
                         -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
                         -Washington Metropolitan Police
            -Richard B. Russell
            -William Stuart Symington
                  -Armed Services Committee
                  -Senility
            -Busing in Prince George’s County
                  -Supreme Court decision
                  -Department of Justice appeal
                               -88-

     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                           Conversation No. 36-139 (cont’d)

-Assailants
      -Race
      -Drugs
-Gun control legislation
      -Problems with passage in Congress
             -Gun lobby
      -George C. Wallace
      -“Saturday night special”
             -Type of gun
      -Dr. [first name unknown] Ward
      -Condition
-Police dragnet
      -The President’s instructions

Also recorded on January 31, 1973

  • 036-135 9:40 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 9:40 pm to 9:41 pm.
  • 036-136 9:41 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:41 pm and 9:42 pm.
  • 406-048 9:41 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 9:41 pm and 9:42 pm.
  • 036-137 9:42 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 9:42 pm to 9:43 pm.
  • 406-049 9:42 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:42 pm to 9:43 pm.
  • 036-138 9:43 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:43 pm and 9:55 pm.
  • 406-050 9:43 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:43 pm to 9:55 pm.
  • 406-051 9:55 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:55 pm to 9:57 pm.

All 86 conversations from January 31, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 036-139, January 31, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/036-139 (accessed October 9, 2026).