Nixon phone call with Scali on People's Republic of China and Henry Kissinger

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Yes, Mr. President.

John, I just talked to Henry a minute, and he will be in touch with you.

let me uh let me just in a nutshell oh eventually how'd that fellow do isn't he a nice man steenhoven he's one of these unusual jewels when he i i really fell into it when the man came in and talked about how proud he was to work at 43 years he says i'm a good whatever it is cost accountant and i know something about welding yeah i thought my god what a man and almost anybody else i know would have taken the 50 bucks too i don't think he's even had high

Well, he's got better education than most colleges, Kevin.

Indeed, sir.

Here's the thing, and it's all agreed.

I, of course, decided while we were there.

Right.

You're to handle this, but it's going to require great subtlety.

Now, first of all, I checked with Henry to see whether I was right, and I am right.

Normally, you see, an athletic team is not handled by anybody.

It's just an athletic team.

In this case, however,

You cannot allow this athletic team to come in here.

You see, State would normally not receive them or anything of that sort, and they wouldn't see anybody unless, like, except when I saw, for example, the Romanian Davis Cup team, I received them because Ceausescu had mentioned it to me.

On the other hand, we cannot allow these people to come over here and have the press descend upon them and make a shambles out of the damn thing.

So what we're really talking about here is to set up a procedure, a procedure whereby we're in close touch with everything, where we really control it, but where our hand doesn't show too much.

It may be, I told Henry, it may be that you might have to consider, I don't know, you might be too visible to go out and do it,

either you you but you know what i mean to handle them when they're here or it may be that we've got to find somebody that can that may be but but the whole point is that that uh that now the other thing is that gossett bill gossett this fellow who is the who is the retired is

is now, he says he's working with, is a very able man.

He's married to the daughter of Chief Justice Hughes and former president of the ABA, a very, you know, worldly figure and so forth.

And so I suggested to Henry that he ought to get him down and the three of you talk.

The main point being is that we get, I think the fact that this guy is talking to Gossett, if Gossett can keep control of it, then Gossett

uh can sort of be the sort of the and keep you informed and so forth so this is the way we want to handle it so uh you talk to you uh the and uh the way it should be to in terms of receiving right in the event right in the event they want it and it should be that way naturally i will see them and i am the only one that should see them because you shouldn't run them around to all other departments and i would do it basically on a strict

And we've got to be very careful we don't overdo it, see, because they're very sensitive on this.

We do what they do, just exactly the same thing.

And so those are the things you've got to work with.

So you sit down with Henry, make all your suggestions and so forth, and you'll be in charge of it, having in mind what the law is, making the state happy.

We want to keep them happy.

We're not trying to make anybody... Do you have any preference, Mr. President, as to time?

Oh, no.

I think...

I haven't even thought about it.

I would suggest that you and... Henry and I will talk this over and try to figure that out.

Maybe, in other words, you and... That is a question.

Yeah, because we want it to fit into your schedule for maximum effect.

I don't know that we have... Perhaps.

I don't know that we have any choice.

The only thing I would say is that...

you know even if i happen to be at the western white house that's not a bad deal too you know that's right it has an enormous impact in the west california and so forth right uh now uh the real question is uh what arrangement would be how visible the any representative of the united states government should be well uh

I think there has to be, frankly.

I don't know how you can...

I would think, Mr. President, it might be to your advantage to have some representative of the American government visible throughout on this to make it clear to Zhou Enlai and to others that you are personally looking after this.

Yeah, and that because this is a special title visit, we want it to be handled well.

We might find, for example, somebody that's very close to me...

As I said, it may be we want you to do it.

It may be you're too visible.

What I mean is you're too... We'll think very carefully about this.

It may be that you are too, shall we say, too high level.

I'm not sure.

But as far as I'm concerned, I'm willing.

I told Kissinger that I'm willing to do anything that seems to be the right thing without going overboard and yet doing...

doing everything we possibly can because we after all this is our initiative right now we're going to get a little credit for it right right and of course the interest in this thing when they come is going to be nice my view is this

I'd have it pretty soon.

I'd have it while they're still thinking about it.

See what I mean?

That would be my thought, too, Mr. President.

I think if we delay this, we're just going to make it...

If you delay it, you may not have it.

Right.

And less impact and a lot of other things.

I think the thing to do is that I'd kick it off fairly soon, just as soon as they can conveniently do it.

we can and we'll arrange of course for somebody to contribute the money to take to give them the right these fellows our fellows didn't pay anything when they're over there you know they've traveled free they stayed at the hotels and all the rest so we'll do the same for them although we don't vote for other teams see this is you see what we've got to remember is that this is not

like an exchange visit see with exchanges we pay see right like an exchange by opera ballot usia or whatever it is now this is not exchange a person see this is a different drill so that's why you've got to talk to henry to see what the what the technical side of it is yes and and then of course as i say keep keep your lines into state we're trying to be very good you want to be happy with them everybody and we'll work with everybody fair enough right all right thank you

Nixon phone call with Scali on People's Republic of China and Henry Kissinger

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 21, 1971

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