Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 45 › Conversation 045-077

Nixon phone call with Bull on Watergate and Presidential papers

Tuesday, May 1, 1973 · 1:04 PM–1:06 PM ET · White House Telephone · 2 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.Conversation045-077 on Tape 45StartTuesday, May 1, 1973 at 1:04 PMEndTuesday, May 1, 1973 at 1:06 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 045-077 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon directs Stephen Bull to instruct Leonard Garment to revise a memorandum regarding access to presidential papers, which Nixon deems overly broad and legally intrusive. Nixon asserts ownership over his personal and national security files, refusing to allow them to be subjected to subpoenas or FBI seizure. Furthermore, Nixon expresses his frustration with Garment's handling of the matter and tasks Bull with pressuring Garment to produce a more appropriate document by his 2:30 p.m. deadline.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Yeah.
Yes, sir, Steve.
Well, after the cabinet meeting, I think Rogers, he should look at this goddamn thing and we'll see what it is.
But I'm not going to... You don't need to discuss it.
But I want you to tell Garment that this is much too broad.
I cannot...
I'm not going to have my personal files held there subject to subpoena.
These men are not defendants.
I'm getting them the hell out of there.
I relate...
Your message to Lynn Gurman already, sir, and I'm just about to talk to Secretary Rogers.
Is Rogers available?
Yes, sir.
He hasn't started his luncheon yet with the foreign minister.
I met right after the cabinet meeting.
I want him to look at this thing.
And we'll do what is right.
But we're not trying to hide anything or destroy anything.
But by God, I'm not going to have them treat these people as criminals.
All right, sir, fine.
Not all of them in Ehrlichman.
And tell Garment I am really shocked that he's doing such a thing.
I gave him those words, and I think I got the message home to him, sir.
What did he say?
He gulped.
Yes, he gulped.
I said, well, maybe you better send it back to me.
That's right.
Did you mention the fact that, no,
that I could not have anything and that anything that's personal between me and them is mine.
Yes, sir.
It doesn't belong to them.
Explain that.
God damn his ass.
He knows that.
And anything in the national security area is mine.
It doesn't belong to them.
Anything else, and that gets out of there.
I'm not going to have that locked up in the FBI.
All right.
Now, God damn him.
You tell him to write something else up better and tell him off his ass faster.
He's out as counsel at 2.30.
All right.
You tell him that?
Yes, sir.
Just in those words.
All right, sir.
Fine.

NARA Description

On May 1, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 1:04 pm to 1:06 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 045-077 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 45-77

Date: May 1, 1973
Time: 1:04 pm - 1:06 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Stephen B. Bull.

[See also Conversation No. 433-9]

     Watergate
          -Language of a memorandum
               -William P. Rogers
               -Leonard Garment
               -President’s reaction
               -Access to papers
               -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman
               -Bull’s conversation with Garment
                     -Garment’s reaction
                     -President’s ownership of papers
                           -Personal communication
                           -National security information
               -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
               -Instructions to Garment

Also recorded on May 1, 1973

  • 045-076 1:00 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:00 pm and 1:04 pm.
  • 433-003 1:00 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:00 pm and 1:04 pm.
  • 433-004 1:00 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:00 pm and 1:04 pm.
  • 433-009 1:04 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:04 pm to 1:06 pm.
  • 045-078 1:06 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:06 pm and 1:07 pm.
  • 433-010 1:06 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:06 pm and 1:07 pm.
  • 045-079 1:07 PM · 56 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 1:07 pm to 1:08 pm.
  • 433-011 1:07 PM · 55 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:07 pm to 1:08 pm.

All 181 conversations from May 1, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 045-077, May 1, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/045-077 (accessed October 5, 2026).