Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 441 › Conversation 441-019

Nixon & Ford on Watergate scandal and Personnel management

Tuesday, June 5, 1973 · 5:21 PM–5:25 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building ·3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ford, Gerald R.Conversation441-019 onTape 441StartTuesday, June 5, 1973 at 5:21 PMEndTuesday, June 5, 1973 at 5:25 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 441-019 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Gerald Ford discuss administration staffing and internal management strategies while emphasizing the need to focus on national governance despite the distractions of the Watergate scandal. Nixon outlines plans for personnel changes, specifically mentioning the upcoming return of an individual named Rice and addressing potential conflict of interest concerns. The President expresses his desire to maintain a strong, unified team to handle legislative and administrative legwork.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Hello.
Hi, Gary.
I had to go up to West Point, so I was just checking on your friend.
I agree.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
is just another one of those stories that didn't work out.
I appreciate your .
He's not a vicious law.
In constitutional debate.
Well, it's a matter of fact, we've got work to do for the country at this time.
And by the way, we're going to do it.
We're not going to let this Watergate stuff distract us.
I knew he would be pleased.
I couldn't mention it in the larger group, and I frankly, between you and me, I didn't want to mention it, and you would scoff at me.
Because you know why in the least, not from you,
He will be the counselor to the President for the Mexican players, and he will be more of an outsider than you'll work on.
Also, for your very confidential information, you're going to get rice back July 1st.
On the Price thing, that's got to be just between you and me, because he has a parade of conflict of interest problem, and I've got to speak to his boss about it.
Everybody's got to blow right up.
But you see, with Mel and Price, and Al, we'll have a team there that Bart can handle at a time.
Mr. Timmons and his group will still do all the legwork, but I really think we've got a great team, which will really be better than the one we had before.
I knew that.
As a matter of fact, I look over there and do that mainly because these guys have got to think that I'm acting on it, too.
And then we are.
We are.
And actually, you ought to see that every paper that comes in, Jerry, has got Jim and Peter Ford and he's a real fighter.
All right.
Yeah.
All right.
I'll give him a call.
Fine.
Thank you.
Thank you.
As a matter of fact, I look over there to him and do that, mainly because these guys have got to think that I'm acting on it, too.
And we are.
We are.
And actually, you ought to see that every paper that comes in, Jerry, has got Jim and Peter Ford against him.
He's a real fighter.
All right.
Yeah.
All right.
I'll give him a call.
Thank you.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On June 5, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:21 pm to 5:25 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 441-019 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 441-19

Date: June 5, 1973
Time: 5:21 pm - 5:25 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with Gerald R. Ford.

[See Conversation No. 39-93]

Also recorded on June 5, 1973

  • 932-002 5:18 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:18 pm and 5:20 pm.
  • 932-003 5:20 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, unknown person(s), and United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:20 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 039-093 5:21 PM · 4 min — White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Gerald R. Ford talked on the telephone from 5:21 pm to 5:25 pm.
  • 441-020 5:25 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 039-094 5:26 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at 5:26 pm.
  • 039-095 5:26 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:26 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 441-021 5:26 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:26 pm and 5:27 pm.
  • 039-096 5:27 PM · 1 min — White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, William E. Timmons, and J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr. talked on the telephone from 5:27 pm to 5:29 pm.

All 48 conversations from June 5, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 441-019, June 5, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/441-019 (accessed September 18, 2026).