Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 452 › Conversation 452-010

Nixon, Black & Abrams on Desegregation and Education

Friday, February 19, 1971 · 12:44 PM–1:02 PM ET · Oval Office ·10 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Black, George, Jr.;  Abrams, Evelyn;  McGee, Delores;  Smith, Lawrence;  Brown, Robert J.;  Hannah, John A. (Dr.);  Witherell, Harvey J.;  Parker, David N.;  White House photographerConversation452-010 onTape 452 (tape position 02:43:13–02:53:13)StartFriday, February 19, 1971 at 12:44 PMEndFriday, February 19, 1971 at 1:02 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 452-010 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with George Black, Jr., Dr. John A. Hannah, and several others to discuss civil rights progress and educational desegregation in the South compared to Northern states. The discussion touched upon demographic trends in school attendance and the President’s appreciation for Black's brickmaking work. The meeting concluded with a commemorative photograph and the presentation of gifts in anticipation of Black's forthcoming trip to Africa.

  • Desegregation
  • Education
  • Civil Rights
  • North Carolina
  • George Black Jr.
  • Africa

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Here's our first layer.
Here's our first layer.
Here's our first layer.
Here's our first layer.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
.
.
.
.
.
But mostly it was all bad.
I talked to her.
She was smart enough not to do it.
But I told her, I told her very well.
Waited for her.
She said, hey, hey, hey, sweetie girl, I'm asking you to go to the end of it.
They're hard to get along, I'll be simple, Mr. St. Lawrence.
They, uh, North Carolina County is, uh, rather well, smarter than the state of Michigan.
Well, it wasn't my problem, I didn't have any trouble.
You know, I got to be here the other day at the previous county.
I'm going to use some of the doctors and, uh, some of my teachers and the seniors.
In all techniques, the dual school student, all of the departments on this figure probably will do a good job.
And the style of the day brought further to life in 1968.
And currently, 18% of the, not enough, 78% of the students
38% of all black students in the South are in schools that are majority black.
In the North, only 28% of black students aren't in school, so that's a very good point.
Which shows that your, uh, that's a very good point.
It's around, uh, the last of the world, right?
Where the other half of the United States and Pakistan and Iraq are equal.
You know, and we're here for a long time.
I was actually going to say three, but the governor told me to hold it for him at all.
It's good to see you here.
Thank you.
Mr. Black, you have the right to address Mike.
Mr. Gray, I think you have a job.
No, I don't think you have a job.
Mr. Black, you have the right to address Mike.
Thank you.
30-30-30-30-30-30-30-30-30-30-30-30-30
I'm sorry I can't be free.
I'm sorry I can't be free.
I have to go on my own.
I have to go on my own.
I have to go on my own.
Thank you very much.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Thank you.
All right.
They can do this, they can do it all this time.
And you can see, that we can definitely do this.
We can do this all the time.
Now, we can't go past like they can.
And all of a sudden, it's all gone.
Our fathers are not going to try that.
They're both going to murder us.
They're not going to do that.
They're not going to do that.
They're not going to do that.
They're going to do that.
They're going to do that.
They're going to do that.
Well, uh, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I have a word of honor to speak with you today.
And I'm sure you're so good at this work.
I love you.
I love you, too.
I love you, too.
I love you, too.
I love you, too.
I love you, too.
Oh, my God.
All right.
Okay.
I would say that the problem has gotten smaller and smaller.
Well, I don't know.
I think we're not alone.
I don't know.
I don't know.
with no power

NARA Description

On February 19, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, George Black, Jr., Evelyn Abrams, Delores McGee, Lawrence Smith, Robert J. Brown, Dr. John A. Hannah, Harvey J. Witherell, David N. Parker, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:44 pm and 1:02 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 452-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 452-010

Date: February 19, 1971
Time: Unknown after 12:44 pm until 1:02 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with George Black, Jr., Evelyn Abrams, Delores McGee, Lawrence Smith,
Robert J. Brown, Dr. John A. Hannah, Harvey J. Witherell, and David N. Parker; the White
House photographer was present during the meeting

     Black

            -Brickmaking work
            -Age
            -President’s appreciation
            -Family
                 -Background

      North Carolina
           -The President’s attendance at Duke University Law School
                -Wake Forest
                -Treatment of racial minorities
                      -Percentage figures of school attendance
                            -Effect of desegregation
                                  -Compared to northern states

      Black
           -Commemorative photograph
           -Forthcoming trip to Africa
                 -Background
           -Presentation of gifts by the President
           -Brickmaking work

Black, et al. left at 1:02 pm

Also recorded on February 19, 1971

  • 452-005 12:41 PM · 53 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:41 pm and 12:44 pm.
  • 452-006 12:41 PM · 18 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:41 pm and 12:44 pm.
  • 452-018 12:41 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:41 pm and 12:44 pm.
  • 452-007 12:44 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Leah McReynolds, William E. Casselman, II, David N. Parker, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:44 pm and 1:02 pm.
  • 452-008 12:44 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John R. Brown, III, Mrs. John R. Brown, III, Alexander P. Butterfield, David N. Parker, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:44 pm and 1:02 pm.
  • 452-009 12:44 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Harriet Elam, Harriet Elam, Harry Elam, Clarence Elam, Dwight L. Chapin, David N. Parker, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:44 pm and 1:02 pm.
  • 452-011 1:02 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:02 pm and 1:04 pm.
  • 452-012 1:04 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Lionel Hampton, Harry Yeates, William Tipone, Henry C. Cashen, II, John Richardson, Jr., and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:04 pm to 1:08 pm.

All 30 conversations from February 19, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 452-010, February 19, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/452-010 (accessed September 18, 2026).