Nixon, Haldeman & Bull on Bureaucracy and Loyalty

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I'm sorry, as soon as the senator gets there, I think he'll come right in.

Where is he?

Is he here now?

I don't know.

Well, yeah.

We'll give you another question.

All right.

A little bit of time.

Yeah.

All right.

He said, yeah, he's got to, you know.

Well, I told him, first of all, yeah, he was all set to do something.

I said, your second thought was it would probably be better to have Sullivan take the lead on it rather than us going into Bill's level.

And Bill said, well, first of all, it's absolutely clear his basic charge is false.

Part of what he's hitting, they have some validity, and I'm trying to get that straightened out now, and Sullivan is up with McCoskey now, McCoskey.

Sullivan will attack him, will take him on at the Kennedy hearings.

He's going to go up, because they're going to go into this Thursday night at the Kennedy hearings.

That's one thing.

Bill's ready to move as soon as they know what they're doing.

He's afraid they're going to get caught with the facts screwed up.

Because the problem is, from the time that Sullivan left, there was an interim before Gottlieb got there.

At that time, they're not sure what the Air Force did do.

You may have something to play with in that area.

I got it.

I'm trying to get that script going.

Well, I may not.

But that's all right.

Bill was all set, though.

And then he said, as soon as that's, we could kind of get the facts straight.

He said, I'll have a press conference.

And then I'll ask him.

He was about to ask me if I was a press conference.

And then I'll get it.

He knows that he's on background.

Oh, yeah.

No question.

Does he know about the terrible way that got him when he was out there?

Yeah.

Good.

There's another question on that.

The other thing he called about was he was concerned about the Viro quarter ship.

He said, first of all, Viro drinks.

Viro has a serious drinking and screwing problem, and he thinks there's something wrong with it.

that he's, you know, something's gone wrong with the guy.

Secondly, he knows nothing about Vietnam.

Thirdly, he personally would be an impossible guy for Rogers to deal with.

And fourth, the move has already basically been done.

Porter already knows they're coming to move in.

And they're set to do it right after they create a lot of us.

But talk to him about it.

If he's a drinker, you can't do much about it.

I know he drinks, but what I know about the screwing, who's he screwing?

Somebody out there?

It's about barrels, of course, but I mean, is it somebody's department?

No.

Well, hell, they all, that is, all these State Department people are trying to run around some worse-than-usual problems.

Okay.

So, uh, I, uh, I told Schultz about, uh, I go to this fellow a lot of times, and I said, and really said, we've got to do something.

I'm trying to shape them up around here a little.

You know, we're going to be in a position next year where we're going to have

In the woodwork.

I don't want any in the White House.

That's your job.

I told George I didn't want any in ODM.

But I don't, as much as we can, I don't want any in the agencies who are there disloyal, leaking all over the place, pissing on us.

And we have got to make an example of somebody.

And now.

Now, this is a good one to make an example of.

Well, I know they'll probably mind if you're Republican with 18 kids.

That's too goddamn bad.

But I think he's probably a career guy, and his ass just goes out for incompetence.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

But I tell you, who is the man we trust?

Malik.

Can Malik find a few other people that we can...

I want to make examples of them publicly, you know?

I didn't really be having a hell of a time, even on that.

And I trust that the government brings that in here.

It says that you couldn't be a client.

It's a little political.

It's the IT&T case.

Client used to want to be killed for the bailout of McLaren.

And I started McLaren.

It had a resignation.

I couldn't check it.

or he lays off the case.

And that's how I mean that.

That wouldn't be bad at all if he even thought about it once.

But Clarence would have said, well, we would.

We'd raise out a lot of the...

But listen, the people that are forward to antitrust prosecutions are never going to be for us.

That is the point that we've got.

I'm not going to stand for it.

I'm just not going to stand for it.

God damn it.

I've given orders over there.

Mitchell's not like that.

Mitchell, you know, like every attorney general's defendants, the lawyers.

God damn him.

We have got just...

Are you concerned about the loyalty of the people?

Aren't you concerned about it?

I am goddamn concerned.

Yep.

They always say, it's what brought home to me, goddamn, I'm not going to have any more of those, to the extent that we can find them.

But you've got to make some examples for people.

We could have hired that son of a bitch before.

Fired him, you know.

I didn't know he knew he was, that was a problem.

He was lying pretty cool.

Right.

Well, he was insured.

But as you probably know, of course, from the others like that that are around the wheel, I want, I want, I want, I want George Bush to look over that whole goddamn staff at the United Nations.

And all the appointees, I want, get a list of my guests by 5 o'clock this afternoon.

How many people at the United Nations are appointees by the President?

Rather than that, get me a study, and I don't want to, I don't take a week, give me 24 hours.

We've really got to get that problem solved.

Now, George won't want to get rid of this and that and the other one, but I do.

Let's clean house.

I want to clean house of the United Nations.

I want every son of a bitch that supported Yost.

I want to know who they are.

You understand what I'm talking about?

Why didn't somebody think of this before?

You know that Yost has got to go on a trip.

He's charging a charge on them.

I wouldn't be surprised.

Thank you, part of the people who sniffer up and suck, you know, people that they think they do.

By God, let's find out.

I want Yost's closest associates out of there.

Out of there.

Is that clear?

Out of there and fast.

God damn fast.

That's the way to handle the Yost thing.

Now, don't let Rogers put you off on this.

If I go over, maybe we'll be put off on it.

But I've got Yosemite.

We've got to go to Jersey.

That incident at Pineville.

If Georgians want to go to Powellville, right at the highest level, we ought to go.

But we have got to clean out that goddamn staff up there.

By that, there must be somebody to do it.

Various levels.

I want to know, who are the State Department people who were close to Charles Yosemite at the United Nations?

And while they're around, a lot of other things, while they're working around, they're not thinking of this.

That's the way it goes, these people.

You've got to get out of the hole in the next hour.

I resign.

He resigns.

I order.

It's tough.

John didn't want to do it.

I hate to tell it, but look, quite a few clients, he says, that's the Attorney General.

John, I understand, I've already said it.

He is burned.

It has something to do with his company.

Fine.

I have nothing to do with it.

But when John Ray calls Klein, he's Klein, he's ought to do it.

That's what I'm getting at.

You're having a fire around and me having to call.

That's wrong, sir.

Don't you agree with me?

Because otherwise, all the presidents have to take to get into this case.

I didn't.

But I did.

But I'm doing it for the matter because we're not going to have this firing around.

I want Klein to know that the president should be kept away from these cases.

Why should I get involved?

That's what you got your staff for.

The staff member doesn't do it unless they don't care about the use of this report, unless I'm for it.

He's here for something.

We've got him on something that he held a recent, which means when he came in, he was just bubbling over.

He just thinks... About China?

No, not China.

Really, just about things in general.

All right, if that's it, what do you think about China?

I'd erase China.

And he said, oh, he just chortled at me.

He said, I just got completely confused.

He said, they're very hard.

They just don't know what to do.

What do you think about demonstrations?

He doesn't think it's going to amount to much.

He said he saw the Veterans March coming across Marlington.

He said it was a different little group of people.

He said one contingent was the Gold Star Mothers and the Lady B.

He couldn't have been over 40 years old.

He said, I thought he'd go up there and say, honey, if you're a Gold Star Mother, you should have started.

I don't know.

He's making some speeches.

We're pushing everything.

He raised points at the time.

He thinks the time wasn't right for a while, but he thinks it is now that once in a while you ought to get a hoot like he had talked about in the chat, you know, at 5 o'clock that time.

And he'll have a few ideas into us on that.

Well, it's a good part just to have a reason to have to come down here officially.

Well, he was a good friend.

And the economy is going to keep it going.

Now, maybe we'll get one.

All right.

We'll just get it to work.

I think Bill wants to do it.

I don't think we should.

And that's it.

And then change it afterwards.

But the whole thing should go on.

All right, who was it?

One that's completely resigned on that one.

One that's sort of ungracious, and I don't see anybody who would keep him.

Well, we should set up a federal order, and they'd all submit their resignations immediately after the election.

All right.

Where are you?

Corporal George, I said.

He's sending a man right now.

He hasn't done anything about this guy.

God damn it, I wanted somebody fired.

Did you get that point?

I said, fire him.

I said, today?

He said, we fired him.

I said, I wanted to publicize that he was fired.

Fire him.

Demolish him.

Whatever you can do.

Is that the same sentence?

I tell you what, everybody around here in the OMB and the cabinet just do not have time.

Nobody gets his ass kicked out.

Don't you agree?

This is the point.

The company says, the company says that one of us leaders aren't ruthless enough.

I know you're right.

You agree?

Yeah.

I don't know about you.

I really, I do, because I think where we had cautioned that we couldn't do it, and we've gone ahead and done it anyway, and there's one that kind of tickles.

Is that a good example?

No, sure, but it goes down that whole list.

And then the tickle, and the doctor adventures, and the whole...

You know, a science guy, Wong, or whatever his name was, that they returned and they said we had to take and kill us at the science community?

Bullshit.

And Totem.

Ruined us.

If we'd let Antotem go, you know, right down the line.

It hurts.

It's barely as much as getting that guy in and trying to live with it.

Do bridge.

And cut.

And I'm out of here soon.

Shit.

Well, look around, look around, believe me.

I'm thrilled now.

I just think in the cabin, too, we could... We couldn't lift the bridge in the air.

You really think that we have to keep open?

I kind of do, yeah.

Why?

Well, attack him.

Okay?

He goes out himself.

He does so.

His problem is, he's just a...

He has a...

He's just...

Well, you know, it was a great event.

Well, it just was a song.

We've got to, uh, we've got to, um, even as I stand in justice for Christ's sake, Mitchell, of all people, won't do anything about McLaren.

No, he sure won't.

Remember, McLaren has given us a kick in the ass.

Who doesn't know?

I'm not for it.

Nixon, Haldeman & Bull on Bureaucracy and Loyalty

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 19, 1971

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