Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 535 › Conversation 535-014

Nixon, Pucinski & Rivera on Education funding and School busing

Friday, July 2, 1971 · 11:54 AM–11:57 AM ET · Oval Office · 6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Pucinski, Roman C.; Rivera, Orlando; Fagan, ArthurConversation535-014 on Tape 535 (tape position 02:51:36–02:57:13)StartFriday, July 2, 1971 at 11:54 AMEndFriday, July 2, 1971 at 11:57 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 535-014 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with Congressman Roman C. Pucinski, Orlando Rivera, and Father Arthur Fagan to discuss federal education funding and the administration's policy regarding school busing. During the meeting, Nixon presented gifts to the visitors and engaged in a brief discussion about the effectiveness of current Department of Health, Education and Welfare (HEW) spending. Nixon concluded by directing his staff member Edward L. Morgan to meet with Pucinski to review the budget and address concerns about the allocation of funds toward busing initiatives.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 3 minutes of this recording (about 60% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
This is her first expression, this kind of melody.
And you notice that the expression in the middle of your pocket was, in this case, the one sort of guy.
And I'd like you to know that the school she attends gets $60,000 on the title one month.
Good.
That's a lot of money.
That's a lot of money.
Wait, this is good money, right?
Father Clayton, you're going to see there's all kinds of money.
It's good to have somebody
to these young people and inspired him.
And also, you know, there's a congressman here who's about to hand it out.
I think that's the people who handed it out, 400, Mr. Vance.
Yeah.
And he invited me in.
Sure.
You know, sometimes we don't really know what we're doing.
Right.
It's a lot.
The main thing you want to remember is that some of you, when they talk about disadvantaged and handicapped and the rest, quite a person, all of us, most of us, the Congressman and I, we didn't come from wealthy families or something like that.
You usually find that when it's a little tougher, you do better.
That's what you're going to do.
Right?
Just try harder.
Just try harder.
There you go.
Now, I want to give you something.
This is a, uh, this is an Apollo viewer, and you would get it in all the kids in school, but if you could give it to the children, it'd show you, you know, what's wrong in space.
It's a nice thing that you can have.
We also have for you a pair of glasses to cover us.
I'm wondering if you know the weather.
I have a pair for you, and I forgot.
I have a pair for you.
I know you were waiting on these every hour, and I have a pair for you.
Well, let me say, just give me a minute.
Well, I wish you well, and just keep moving ahead.
Do what the Father tells you to do.
He gives you good advice.
Okay.
I'm good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all that urgency, yeah.
That's wrong, that's wrong, yeah.
So I had to go out there and tell you, you know, what came down.
And you've done a great job.
You've impressed yourself.
But you say that these things are, that too much of this money is going into just trying to encourage busing.
Let me, I'm going to have a, I'm going to have a follow-up watch on this bill, on the budget, or I'm going to call you and just lay it out on the phone and tell them exactly what's happening.
Not from H.E.
Douglas, but just one of my men.
Can I have a talk with you?
Yes, you can.
I can sit down and I can show you.
how we can structure this in a way that's...
Uh, it's Morgan.
It's Morgan.
I want Morgan to talk to the Congressman at my request.
I want to know what this deal is.
And I want to report Morgan to Irvington because his dimension comes from the seats.
But I don't do this very much.
But I'm against the budget.
We have to do it because it's three parts.
But I'm against putting money down.
We can put it in better places.
Like this house here.
Is this better than buying a bus?
Thank you.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On July 2, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Roman C. Pucinski, Orlando Rivera, and Arthur Fagan met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:54 am to 11:57 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 535-014 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 535-14

Date: July 2, 1971
Time: 11:54 am - 11:57 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Congressman Roman C. Pucinski, Orlando Rivera, and Father Arthur
Fagan.

     Rivera
          -Inscription
          -School
          -Fagan

     Presidential gift
           -Apollo viewer
           -Cufflinks

Rivera and Fagan left at an unknown time before 11:57 am

     Budget
         -Integration, busing
         -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
               -Edward L. Morgan
                     -John D. Ehrlichman

Pucinski left at 11:57 am

Also recorded on July 2, 1971

  • 535-010 11:36 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield [?], Eleuterio Mendozo, Mrs. Eleuterio Mendozo, Elizabeth Mendozo, and James D. ("Don") Hughes met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:36 am to 11:39 am.
  • 535-011 11:39 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Robert J. Newbrand, Mrs. Robert J. Newbrand, Janice Newbrand, Patricia Newbrand, Michael Newbrand, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:39 am to 11:41 am.
  • 535-012 11:41 AM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:41 am and 11:43 am.
  • 535-013 11:43 AM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Wimer D. Mizell, Eddie Bane, Larry Calufetti, Benny Castillo, Bob Ellenberger, John Caneira, Nell Ellenberger, Ron Fraser, Doug Gerlach, Marty Harrington, Peter Helt, Tony Hewitt, Cliff Holland, Fred Lynn, Bill McClain, Roger McGill, Fred Mims, Paul Patterson, Jeff Port, Ken Reed, Jay Smith, Jack Smitheran, Tim Steele, Jackson Todd, Al Torregano, Bobby Winkles, and Elinor Winkles met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:43 am to 11:52 am.
  • 535-015 11:57 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 11:57 am.
  • 535-016 11:59 AM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, William J. Keating, Herbert W. Wengler, and Richard A. Fossier met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:59 am to 12:02 pm.
  • 535-017 12:02 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Chalmers P. Wylie met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:02 pm to 12:12 pm.
  • 535-018 12:02 PM · 35 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:02 pm to 12:13 pm.

All 78 conversations from July 2, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 535-014, July 2, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/535-014 (accessed October 13, 2026).