Conversation 625-026

TapeTape 625StartMonday, November 29, 1971 at 12:52 PMEndMonday, November 29, 1971 at 1:35 PMTape start time04:47:51Tape end time05:27:48ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Bull, Stephen B.;  Ziegler, Ronald L.;  MacGregor, ClarkRecording deviceOval Office

On November 29, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, Ronald L. Ziegler, and Clark MacGregor met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:52 pm and 1:35 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 625-026 of the White House Tapes.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I think now all of them.
I think they are, well, not just them, they actually are invited.
And I know they do, but I mean, I want them to think that I don't think that's the right way.
And I know that they .
One thing you might do is talk about talking that.
And we get, I don't want to get the business here where only the people I happen to see too much influence, but I accept the discussions.
I see John Whitaker back to me about the environment.
Maybe you can back me about going to a Catholic Mass.
So that's fine, too.
I just want to be sure that I'm getting this.
And the same in terms of what you do on TV.
How much is the best thing?
I've seen one guy who
And he usually calls me at around 1 o'clock.
He says, uh, perhaps it's time.
That's apparently the case.
But I was going to say, if you like, a critique on his standpoint about who we are and who we are before.
I just don't want to put off that we have to write out a stack of papers and everything.
So don't go that far.
I think you're built on a personal basis with people through your board who just be worthwhile.
What do you think we ought to be doing?
For example, the whole business about the press, less confidence, how much more we should use.
Whether we, for example, ought to consider going for
But they might say, they might say, well, we ought to make a command decision.
We must use the means that are very effective on us, sometimes at some risk.
So we've got to try and find a whole bunch of Congresses.
Maybe more.
Maybe we're going to do this show for ABC now.
I don't know what it is.
We're going to have a show.
We have a kind of show.
But what other things are we doing?
We've got two big shows.
Our two trips.
Two trips will be in a country great deal.
I think the other church is going to, the many summons here in December are going to give a terrible, pretty big bang.
Well, the fact that they're in different places, the fact, you know, just getting out of Washington adds something to anything.
Yeah.
And going to the age of Orton, I've always never been to the age of Orton.
Going to Bermuda is good because it's, because people have been there.
It's historic.
It's good doing what you just did in San Clemente, getting the working idea of the other White Houses.
This is a common call that we make.
We're going to have to pay for the advertising or the entertainment.
That's all right.
Just like you paid for a good dinner.
Same kind of event.
No why.
It's no state of mind.
Nothing.
We're not getting any out of here.
No meeting the second day.
Oh, God damn it.
We're going to really clamp down on that crap.
On this kind of business.
There aren't going to be any second day meetings.
We're going to try to cut those down.
There are leaders in that, too.
But we're not doing everything except for benefits.
She's an impressor on Sam and everybody's, and that whole, we've been, didn't run with it for so long and we've gotten used to it, but the idea of that series of beings, one, you know, week after week after week, right on through here, is kind of an impressive array of penetrating, and it's, you know, it is a very impressive array of
I'm sorry.
I didn't realize it.
The team played exactly right.
It's the hard-working teams, the fact that they're away from the capitals in order to avoid the pageantry and all that.
They picked it up that way.
And the small working group, the fact that Tommy's gone,
I take attention about, as I say, my plan is assuming that we want to do it to do something on the first next week.
Uh, yeah.
As I'm sure you realize, all these medisons and so forth are going to have us, even though they aren't.
But we're going to be in trouble with the funding.
And we want the funding.
And that created what nevertheless, uh,
The real question is whether we're wrong on things that are going to be helpful to us.
But there's no question.
Some true stuff sure is.
I mean, it's all the same.
I mean, China sold you.
It's got to be.
The first round is going to be helpful to you.
The focus on foreign policy, it pulls you back out of the mire.
What else?
Phase II business, you know, whether somebody can raise his prices a dollar and a half or something, that you could be just up to your ears.
And if you sat around and you're meeting with those boards on the day of retail, and also harassing the battery for the press launch, that's what the press launch,
Yes.
If the press is fascinated with this other than that, it is.
We have to, during a hell of a time, find a way to say to the old folks, namely, the wise and smart ones, what we have done.
Um, yeah.
I'm just saying, we're gonna give much in a way, but I'll be sure I'll give it to the old folks instead of to the environment here.
You, I agree with the programs and everything else, but do you want to be in the structures?
Pretty?
No.
That's the way it is.
For the drug industry, it's almost any kind of economy access to the first sector.
The possibilities are so, they're so hot for it.
Low cost here.
Reducing the cost.
That was about it.
It bothers me how there's a fashionable thing there where the movie theaters have a low price here for old folks and the buses have low prices for old people.
So you've got a sort of established thing that pre-enterprises voluntarily to encourage old people.
I thought you knew well how to do well.
You came up with a little costume.
I guess, yes.
In these conferences, I hope this is the last.
We're out of our minds if we have any commissions, conferences, committees, boards, or anything else next year.
And, you know, or, or, I think your cabinet office has got to grow.
Yeah.
Well, I can say that all because I've got to see a lot of other stands in the back.
And just after this, you've just got to back up the windows and just tell everybody to get out and start campaigning.
There's a reason to do that.
The captain said, it won't be as boring.
It'll have suns on it.
I might as well.
I think that's the best thing we can do.
We can't make the point that those are the last two trips abroad.
Now everybody's going to huckle their feet to work here, capitalized.
The driver's mark is two and a half feet straight from the man in the back.
He's every single minute.
My whole family has to fight that one to try to cut that.
I don't think it's going to work.
That's just astonishing.
What's the other girl's name?
Pearl?
Huh?
Well, when you think of it, you know, you could be here, but there isn't a boat to be in, and people here aren't any.
Did not both self-media take it for instance?
Don't people care about hamsters?
I mean, how about a symbol, but not like that?
How about, how about radio, radio saying we can't cut them down?
How do we tell them?
Henry, how about it?
Who wrote you the letters?
Well, you may be the one who said these are quite hard to communicate with nations.
You wouldn't have waited too long, would you?
Well, on the political side, who's judging now?
I think I'm the last, maybe I'm fizzing out on my own, what we do on the TV, sorry, and escape them in public appearances.
But how will that make me mine?
Who else do you think will ask for it?
Oh, yeah, the office ones.
The garment that, uh, yeah, we all agreed, garment.
I didn't look at it.
You can't appreciate what they're going to say, but they come up with new things.
Yes.
Right.
Sapphire garment.
That's right.
More of a scally.
How?
How?
Yeah.
They have a hard scally.
Scally.
We're going to see these on Brooklyn.
And we're going to see them on the field.
We're going to see them on the field.
We're going to see them on the field.
We're going to see them on the field.
That's to the odd thing about every device that we want to use and how we use it.
I do not believe that computers
running out of Chicago to the 4-H, been there so long, is probably too good an idea.
But I agree.
I just think we, as a stop on the way back, it was a marginal way.
I think we've met in Chicago so much, and I've got to have a lot to say there.
So maybe there's some audience.
I figure this is just obviously talking to you, not talking to Chicago.
Yeah.
It would be one of those things.
But there is good coverage.
There is.
You're at least making it.
Maybe there's another good audience.
Maybe.
Maybe there's another audience.
You ought to do a good job with your person.
Well, that's what I should have said.
Yeah.
I don't think they're all that bad.
And there are, there are more that aren't in college than are.
And then, I think the time to buy a few of these cars would be right over the top.
It would be a hell of a seat then.
Hell of a seat.
So that's why we got a little time in that China March April period.
That's why we're not steady on that year.
The way we see, we really, really are going to knock him off the line.
Knock him off that other side, yeah.
And I'm just sure, right away, you realize, in that period, we will have a clear sail of the year.
And we want to hear.
And I just doubt that.
And I just doubt that that is not predicted to be true.
How much time do I have?
I'll spend the night coming back the next morning.
I'm not going to have two dinners and all that.
I'll go out and I'll have dinner that night.
The next morning I'm coming home.
I'm going to go with the ambassadors for a reception down at the ocean.
I'm in a different position.
I try to get that across to Henry.
You get to realize it.
I can't do it the way...
My mother is a slave.
She's a lady.
She's like, you know, we say she's a gay man, but the Brazilians made that accounts for the trade because... Yeah.
Because of the right thing.
Because I wouldn't come to Brazil and have to see her again.
It's the problem with the camps.
It's about that body.
I see what you mean.
It's too bad.
I'm sorry.
Of course I'm not going to Brazil and have to see her again.
Never.
That's... For the greatest champion just that he is, Henry's...
Actions for trade.
Who stepped on that man's head was just amazing.
on his overuse of drugs.
This is on the gentleman, too.
He says, I know I'm credible, so many times I know all these things that nobody listens to anymore.
Especially with all this activity in December.
December, I'm saying you are a good person.
It was a solid month of...
It got a little bit of a cold in there.
I tried to get this pollution in the last day, but it was not that cold.
And I found out that if that cold damp air berated it, it could build.
It was cold.
I've never seen it.
I've heard it before.
Yes, sir.
First, can I ask
Can we, this way?
This way, please.
You know, that's the thing.
You can do that with a bigger plate than most of us.
You can do that.
You can build it up.
You know, it's a secret.
It's not an animal.
It's not a sign.
The lead story was a huge event for me.
It was not a lead story.
It was not a lead story.
It was not a lead story.
It was not a lead story.
Yeah.
Are you still there?
N-E-I-R.
I thought this was supposed to be three in a focus apartment.
We could move both up to tomorrow and get another one if you'd like to.
Why don't we do that?
I'm sure it'll come down.
And, uh, or you can do Wednesday morning before the 4-H. You want to do that?
No, no.
Keep that clear.
When do we go to 4-H?
Right in Chicago at 2.30.
So you can be there at 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13.
I think the content was fine, Mr. President.
I was gravely surprised that they didn't zero in more incisively on the question of, you know, what if the veto and what happens afterwards, or on the fact that the President hasn't been interested at all in political aspects of it.
The question is always to determine how many people would check the box.
But the party would not if the President was concentrated on the principle.
of the issue and has concentrated on some of the very unwise provisions that were highlighted in the debate five years ago by the late Senator Robert Kennedy and former Senator Albert Gore.
I had a chance to say that this idea, considered by the Congress and rejected by a bipartisan majority, is early, at an earlier time, an unwise provision.
I was
I'm sorry.
Yes, yes.
I, uh, Ron, sir, sir, judge, I, uh, I, uh, I don't believe it's a budget less than that person.
It's a veto, but it's a budget less than the legislation.
It's a veto.
It's a veto.
The question as to whether or not you were committed to a tax bill was emphasized, and it's emphasized in the story.
There should be no question about the fact that the president's commitment to the tax program is a vital part of his economic policy, which made that point all along.
The question is, is it an acceptable tax bill?
And the process, you know, should we be getting an acceptable tax bill?
So...
Yes, Ron, open, please.
No one should have any doubt about that in terms of, you know, the
Yes, I said the President has instructed that before the Congress ultimately adjourns, there will be a suitable tax bill.
Well, Senator, when Reagan said that Nixon is optimistic that the tax law changes he seeks will be passed by Congress before the legislature comes to question,
As so that Chief Executive Mark Carl Congress in a special session at the court without giving him what he wants to partnership, that is not a confusion.
So that's what we're going to do.
Russell Long would like to make a deal with you, Mr. President.
He'd like you to commit yourself to support the child care tax revisions written in the Senate bill.
uh and you'd like a couple of other things that are a little a little a little unclear to take some steps to provide the support for consideration of the checkoff idea
Well, I could buy it the first time, but I don't give a damn about his childcare grant and all that.
I mean, that's fine.
I mean, that's a bigger idea.
It doesn't cost a lot of money, so we'll let that go.
But, uh, I can't agree to it.
You know, could we do a problem?
We do think we ought to consider it, but we can't.
We can't.
Here's what Bill Timmons and I...
This comes to Bill Timmons from Joe Wagner.
And so Bill Timmons and I have agreed that Charlie Walker ought to immediately go up and see Joe Wagner and then go over and see Russell Long, not as an agent of the president, but simply as an indication of Treasury's willingness always to sit down and talk about matters of dispute, but not precisely what it is that Russell wants.
What other thing was ever put up in the house?
What are we doing that works?
What?
No, no, no, no.
What we offer is a substitute for this.
It's not a mystery very much.
It's very, very much a mystery.
the soul, the creation, and the life.
In essence, in the present, that would result from the expansion of 315.
I see this as a permit.
That allows them to use, not to provide equal time.
You have to go beyond this, which is equal free time.
And I thought of the same formula.
I mean, is anyone willing to pay $1.5 million worth of free time for each candidate?
And take it out of the highway?
Each member of the provider?
Okay, for all presidential candidates or?
Yeah.
No, do it in the same place, county in the same place.
The law gets what the Democratic Republican gets.
It's to allow.
Well, it starts, starting at the back, cut it out.
It's an artisan scheme.
And that shows, that would get us, that would get us, it's the making of costs.
Exactly.
But it will allow.
We didn't want to be here.
But a lot of that juice has come from there.
All the other things we didn't want to be here.
There was no place for us.
There was no place for us.
This is what we're going to be consecrated for.
We're going to be consecrated for our hands.
We're going to be consecrated for our works.
We're going to be consecrated for our joy.
We're going to be consecrated for our votes.
All the things that you can do.
You can do.
I need no favors.
I need to be alive.
Now this idea of a free network time, that really gets at it a little bit better.
How do we do that?
We have a remote control network.
How would you do that?
I think for a television license, there must be a provision for three times.
But it holds your blood to snake out of the back of the editorial this morning.
They need to hold this.
This was a good thing to check off because it would, of course, lead to federal financing of all candidates.
So, congressional senatorial.
That should be gubernatorial.
Yeah.
You see, every candidate matters.
It's the restraint on these downtown docs that makes a deal with somebody.
It isn't a good thing for a Biden meeting to say history first.
It's totally a safety issue.
It isn't a good thing for Obama to say history first.
This is the business of her calling, to be solely in the pocket of the people.
Now, there's labor union folks.
That's what I'm saying.
Except for on labor, that's what I'm talking about.
When a guy or something got labor union support, you know, those kind of things you have on your hand, any of those folks, they are totally furious.
This is a...
So in other states, very recently, Mr. President had a candidate sign a written pledge to do precisely what labor wanted in the tradition of getting financing.
They no longer, since they got roasted on it, they no longer require the written pledge, but they accomplish it the same way.
You go right down the line, those members of Congress who get labor unions have 100% in records, or they don't get it.
That's what it is.
With respect to ventilating the idea of free TV time network and otherwise, Mr. President, we can get people in the House and take out a special order and develop this between now and the adjournment of the House and take the floor of the House today.
Sure, sure.
Except if we let things go, we can let them go.
You see, the idea of getting to keep getting the next networks, I mean, to have a positive line,
How would that go in this court?
I would urge the latter courts.
I would urge the latter courts.
No, but that third thing is not subsidizing the federal funds.
It's coming into taxpayers' money.
And it still leaves a great deal of a very large number of people in that area
Actually, same.
It would go along with it.
It would go along with it.
It doesn't provide the communication service for the cost of tax pay.
Sure.
And it doesn't come from the candidate.
I must say, Mr. President, the prospect of having to watch some of these candidates on national television.
I mean, you want me to do it after the commencement?
He paid himself.
We can get on with him earlier.
Sometimes we'll put him on.
Sometimes we won't.
It won't pass, Clark.
Don't worry about it.
You see, that works about as fast.
Well, that's a sure thing, though, as a matter of fact.
I don't know how much time you gave them, but I can see they don't make their money on the half-hour program time they need.
You're probably missing your bonus time because of that 7.30 half-hour segment, see?
No, no, no.
I don't mean have more shows in there.
Oh, I think it gives spot announcements to us.
Spot announcements to each other.
Oh, I make the bastards talk that up, too.
That's good.
Well, I could get somebody to work on that idea.
I think it's intriguing.
John Anderson would take something like that and run with it, and he's highly visible.
You know how, uh, I mean, but I can't, you've got to get some, some quick research, you know.
Oh, yeah, I appreciate me doing this, President.
I think, uh, somebody's got a solid position.
Okay.
Well, we're fine.
We've got a question.
I don't know what it did to the shot marker.
It did not kill us.
Thank you, brother.
Not that he enjoys it, but he does.
He doesn't come in blind.
He'd love to come in shopping for a chance to go out there.
Got him.
Well, that's a good use of him, too.
Sure.
Gave him a run.
He's more attractive than some of our people.
He's more enthusiastic.
Couldn't be surprised for that kind of boy.
Never.
but while the partners on hand themselves, he's good on his feet, he's in control, he knows he's got both political and lawyer's mind, he knows what, how not to answer a question.
He doesn't get trapped as easily as some of our election partners.
Do you want that?
Oh yeah, I think maybe the best thing is to get, uh,
is to take off that, oh, oh, with Paul Lewis, but you are not that much.
You are not that much.
What time did you leave for Chicago?
There's no reason you can't see a whole lot, right?
You're gonna leave tomorrow, aren't you?
Sure.
I imagine it's better for men.
Sure.
Whatever's better for men.
Sure.
Then you be clear as soon as you've any good.
Go wait there.
We're about five o'clock.
You got me down there.
Get up.
We go to five.
And then announce, but I've announced that I'm going back to this final budget review, is that what we call it?
Yeah, final budget review.
I think we ought to call it final budget review.
That's the question.
Final budget review.
You know, there's a lot more.
Then put Mike Berger on, Schultz, Mike Berger, Schultz, Mike Berger, Norton, Fahey, you know, something else.
There's, you know, there's seven weeks, seven, three months.
Five, good.
I'll see.
I'll call back.
I'll see about three months.
Well, that's that tomorrow.
So it's a...
I wonder, I wonder if we should...
I just don't know if there'd be something in the Congress that...
We'll put out some budget meeting activity today and say that you're going to have to spend the weekend on the budget.
We can save that.
It just isn't working on the budget.
It's working on the people.
Yes, the people are going to budget the studio.
That's right.
We need to start to work towards that.
Good.
All right.
I'm going to introduce, I'm going to take place this evening.
Okay, thank you.
We just decided last morning to go down here.
Now we have four days.
Three days.
I don't understand.
Because I'll have to determine then what I do regarding the president.
And often these are not too bad an idea, perhaps, before going off to the function and meeting the press, either in the informal session or the informal session.
We're going on here.
It's already happened in Congress.
Right.
It would be the day to do it.
You know, we get back always to this point in time.
We're going to see more restaurants.
Because of infections.
There we go.
Why?
To be around us.
I don't know.
This is the way to handle this.
We haven't heard your crime yet today.
This is the way to handle this.
And if he says that he's going to beat her, it's true, I don't think so.
She's going to beat him.
After he leaves our security, we are not in a special situation.
Oh, if you do it, do you still have to do that?
Florida?
You have to do the reagent?
Yeah.
You can go right up on the 18th.
Fly right, right, just do the 18th.
I'm not going to watch it at all.
Then fly from Florida to New York on the 18th.
Oh, you can do this.
After a beautiful country, a reason to be here is...