Nixon White House TapesTape 744 › Conversation 744-021

Nixon, MacGregor & Bull on Social Security and Presidential Veto

Friday, June 30, 1972 · 2:55 PM–3:18 PM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  MacGregor, Clark;  Bull, Stephen B.;  Lagdameo, Ernesto V.;  Lagdameo, Ernesto V. (Mrs.)Conversation744-021 onTape 744 (tape position 03:30:38–03:53:45)StartFriday, June 30, 1972 at 2:55 PMEndFriday, June 30, 1972 at 3:18 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 744-021 ↗

President Nixon met with Clark MacGregor to discuss the political implications of a potential veto of the Social Security bill, specifically addressing the fiscal impact of the Frank Church amendment and concerns regarding debt ceiling extensions. They strategized on managing Congressional support and navigating the Ways and Means Committee, while also weighing the administration's stance as a campaign issue against Democratic opposition. The meeting concluded with a brief interruption to host Ernesto V. Lagdameo, his wife, and Anna C. Chennault for scheduled greetings and photographs.

Audio for this conversation has not been released by the National Archives.

No transcript is available because the audio has not been released.

On June 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Clark MacGregor, Stephen B. Bull, Ernesto V. Lagdameo, and Mrs. Ernesto V. Lagdameo met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:55 pm to 3:18 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 744-021 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 744-21

Date: June 30, 1972
Time: 2:55-3:18 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Clark MacGregor.
[This recording began at an unknown time while the meeting was in progress.]

     Social Security bill
          -Frank T. Church amendment
                -Possible veto
                -Cost to Social Security reserves
                -Fears of elderly
                -The President's position
          -Effects of veto of debt ceiling bill
          -Future debt ceiling bills
          -Congressional support
                -Samuel L. Devine
          -Ways and Means Committee
                -John W. Byrnes, Barber B. Conable, Jr.
                      -Elliot L. Richardson
                           -Possible testimony
                -Wilbur D. Mills
          -Byrnes
                -Effects of passage
                -Welfare reform bill (House Resolution [HR] 1)
          -Administration plan to delay Congressional adjournment
          -Possible statement about the President's feeling on Social Security
                -Record of the President's administration
          -Richardson
          -George P. Shultz's opinion on administration's fight
          -Richardson
          -Fight in committee
          -Possible amendments
                -Rules of debate
          -Byrnes
          -Leslie C. Arends
          -Jackson E. Betts

                                        (rev. Feb-02)

          -Arends
          -Conable
          -John B. Anderson
          -John J. Rhodes
          -George H. Mahon

     The President’s forthcoming meeting with Ernesto V. Lagdameo
          -MacGregor's trip to Manila

     Social Security bill
          -Possible veto
                -MacGregor’s view
          -Fight in committee
          -Campaign issue
          -Reasons for veto
          -Debt ceiling extensions
                -Political motivations of Congressional Democrats

     George S. McGovern

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 37s        ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

*****************************************************************

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 2:55 pm.

     The President's schedule
          -Anna C. Chennault

Bull left at an unknown time before 3:12 pm.

     The President's schedule
          -MacGregor

                                          (rev. Feb-02)

      Social Security bill
           -Shultz
           -Caspar W. Weinberger

Chennault, Lagdameo, and Mrs. Ernesto Lagdameo entered at 3:12 pm.

      Greetings

      Arrangements for photograph

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:12 pm.

      The President's schedule
           -Richard G. Kleindienst
           -Ronald L. Ziegler

      Gifts

      Photographs

bull left at an unknown time before 3:18 pm.

      MacGregor

      Chennault

      Presentation of gifts by the President

      Parties

      The President's schedule

MacGregor, et al., left at 3:18 pm.
  • 347-005 2:10 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:10 pm and 2:55 pm.
  • 347-006 2:10 PM · 45 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:10 pm and 2:55 pm.
  • 744-022 3:18 PM — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:18 pm to 3:24 pm.
  • 026-055 3:24 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger talked on the telephone from 3:24 pm to 3:28 pm.
  • 744-023 3:24 PM — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at 3:24 pm.
  • 744-024 3:24 PM — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Richard G. Kleindienst, and Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:24 pm to 4:22 pm.
  • 745-001 3:24 PM — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, and Richard A. Moore met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:24 pm to 4:29 pm.
  • 026-056 3:28 PM · 47 min — The recording device engaged on an unknown date, sometime between 3:28 pm on June 30, 1972 and 8:01 am on July 1, 1972, but the conversation appears to be blank.

Conversation 744-021, June 30, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/744-021 (accessed September 18, 2026).